MRP / Trib. Lynch To Tribunal

[wegetpumped]

I gather corruptness is still rife in the AFL lol what is the point of this thread besides he is going to be out for a lot longer
In fairness to some other teams same thing happens. One game the guy was standing up and oppo grabbed him and held his neck in front of goal nothing given and another clear as day high tackle play on and you can hear the ump say sorry didn't see it and this is with 4 umpires now lol. Than we had the coniglio carlton disaster for decent when player simply asked why it was no free kick which cost them the game.

 

[Do the Dew]

If he chooses to tuck his arms his intent is to bump.

Lions players remonstrated because Cameron led with a raised elbow. Lynch wasn't anywhere near as malicious, but in todays game, electing to bump when he had another option to contest to ball has cost him. I know it's not the popular opinion, but it's the way the game is being adjudicated now.

Disagree. There's a clear distinction between a bump and a brace. This was undeniably the latter.

 

[Do the Dew]

They've already failed on consistency.

One week ago - no suspension, fine, not even cited. Looks familiar to me. We should play this clip at the case then walk out

Great ****ing find. That's the same or maybe worse than Lynch's non-case. Just shows how horribly incompetent the AFL and especially Michael Christian is.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Disagree. There's a clear distinction between a bump and a brace. This was undeniably the latter.

Zactly right...extremely hard, prolly impossible...to raise a bump, when your vertically airborne attempting a mark...bracing is prolly a lot easier to accomplish..

 

[Grrr]

They've already failed on consistency.

One week ago - no suspension, fine, not even cited. Looks familiar to me. We should play this clip at the case then walk out

What was Witherdon thinking. God gave you a left arm for a reason, uses the left and the hit is taken on the side, uses the right and he is front on to the traffic. Imagine if Ruckman did this, turned towards his opponent because he wants to use his natural hand, wouldn't last long.

 

[rfctigerarmy]

They've already failed on consistency.

One week ago - no suspension, fine, not even cited. Looks familiar to me. We should play this clip at the case then walk out

****. Game, set, match.

 

[smasha]

Just goes to show how corrupt the AFL are.

Barnzy ,send it to the RFC and we will bring the eggs when they go to the tribunal.

 

[Roachy8]

I'm astounded at how many media and non media commentators are so quick to just say "lynch chose to not contest the mark"

He misjudged the flight of the ball on a wet and windy afternoon and realised he was too far under the drop point - he could have put his arms up but would have likely totally missed the ball anyway and run under it and looked like a total goof. It happens in games often.
He senses an opponent coming in from the front and realises there will be a collision.

At the same time a bulldog guy is fast approaching the contest from the front.
He too is initially looking at the ball (like Lynch) but at the last minute realises he will crash into the oncoming players and actually starts looking towards the impact point rather than the ball flight.

Lunch realises there will be contact first and instinctively braces for the inevitable clash (initiated by the bulldog guy by approaching the contest FROM THE FRONT.)

Those suggesting Lynch should have contested the mark and "put his arms up" are being unreasonable - he knew he had over-run the ball drop, sensed there would be initially UNEXPECTED contact with a guy coming from the opposite direction but should have still had the clarity of thought within a split second to think...
"I'm a bigger guy than the opposition player, if there is contact one or both of us could be injured, I might concuss him, so I better put my arms up to make it look like I am contesting the ball which will on it's current trajectory actually sail over my head anyway, but then we would come into contact with my ribs and front-on exposed and I might be hurt but that will be better for me as I wont be potentially hurting the other guy"

Lynch chose to brace for the contact - sadly the bulldog guy who had put himself into a dangerous position by running front on into a contest that he was not ever going to impact anyway, was concussed as the two bodies came together.

Possibly the only thing Lynch could have done differently is to have not left his feet in anticipation of the clash (although this is a very very common instinctive reaction to brace for solid contact)

This is 100% a footballing incident - bodies coming together a hundred times during a normal game.

An accidental injury occurred.

We feel sorry for the Bulldog - it is a physical game - next week there will be other injures due to the nature of the contest that we love.

 

[_RT_]

I'm astounded at how many media and non media commentators are so quick to just say "lynch chose to not contest the mark"

He misjudged the flight of the ball on a wet and windy afternoon and realised he was too far under the drop point - he could have put his arms up but would have likely totally missed the ball anyway and run under it and looked like a total goof. It happens in games often.
He senses an opponent coming in from the front and realises there will be a collision.

At the same time a bulldog guy is fast approaching the contest from the front.
He too is initially looking at the ball (like Lynch) but at the last minute realises he will crash into the oncoming players and actually starts looking towards the impact point rather than the ball flight.

Lunch realises there will be contact first and instinctively braces for the inevitable clash (initiated by the bulldog guy by approaching the contest FROM THE FRONT.)

Those suggesting Lynch should have contested the mark and "put his arms up" are being unreasonable - he knew he had over-run the ball drop, sensed there would be initially UNEXPECTED contact with a guy coming from the opposite direction but should have still had the clarity of thought within a split second to think...
"I'm a bigger guy than the opposition player, if there is contact one or both of us could be injured, I might concuss him, so I better put my arms up to make it look like I am contesting the ball which will on it's current trajectory actually sail over my head anyway, but then we would come into contact with my ribs and front-on exposed and I might be hurt but that will be better for me as I wont be potentially hurting the other guy"

Lynch chose to brace for the contact - sadly the bulldog guy who had put himself into a dangerous position by running front on into a contest that he was not ever going to impact anyway, was concussed as the two bodies came together.

Possibly the only thing Lynch could have done differently is to have not left his feet in anticipation of the clash (although this is a very very common instinctive reaction to brace for solid contact)

This is 100% a footballing incident - bodies coming together a hundred times during a normal game.

An accidental injury occurred.

We feel sorry for the Bulldog - it is a physical game - next week there will be other injures due to the nature of the contest that we love.

Pretty much exactly what I've been trying to convey and explain why the MRO decided to send Lynch to the tribunal (Lynch leaving his feet and making high contact with Keath left him vulnerable to drawing attention).

Now it's up to our advocate to mount a strong enough case so that it does get dismissed, however I don't believe that will happen.

Also for those using the Witherden/O'Meara clash, both players had left the ground to contest the mark, Witherden (stupidly) bravely going back with the flight and O'Meara coming hard on the lead. A clash was inevitable as O'Meara had already committed to trying to mark the ball and possibly would have had Witherden not entered the contest. There is no similarity to the Lynch incident as Lynch had never left the ground to contest the mark until he was past the drop zone and headed for impact with Keath, which is why he his has been sent to the tribunal.

 

[SunshineBoy]

Richmond Loading and this is why Benny will never get the top job, too many skeletons

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

So let the Lawyers, Advocates, Baristas argue the technicalities and Slo-Mo replays of Tommy's brace to protect hisself from possible injury by an illegal tackle front on in a highly physical sport! A protection he is entitled to!
We ought to argue this charge from the oppo side...what was Keath's intention in this collision?!? What was Keath thinking?!?
Where were Keath's eyes looking in this attempt to collide with Lynch?!? Where was Keath moving to and from?!?
Where was his duty of care to Lynch by attempting an illegal front on tackle/block...
And no free kick paid to Tommy for front on tackle/tunnelling..

 

[DickieKnee]

he could have put his arms up but would have likely totally missed

If he did this Keath would have cleaned him up. Keath had even less chance of getting to the ball his intent was to block Lynch.

 

[Waca Jr]

Banned for life reduced to ten years on appeal. Nothing surer

 

[Roachy8]

If he did this Keath would have cleaned him up. Keath had even less chance of getting to the ball his intent was to block Lynch.

Yup agreed.
Players are entitled to protect themselves against injury - in my most very humble opinion Lynch realised he had overshot the ball drop-point, was going to be collected front on by an oncoming player and braced for the hit.

Wally's arguing he should have thought to have not left the ground in the microsecond he had to evaluate the situation are being disingenuous...

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Pretty much exactly what I've been trying to convey and explain why the MRO decided to send Lynch to the tribunal (Lynch leaving his feet and making high contact with Keath left him vulnerable to drawing attention).

Now it's up to our advocate to mount a strong enough case so that it does get dismissed, however I don't believe that will happen.

Also for those using the Witherden/O'Meara clash, both players had left the ground to contest the mark, Witherden (stupidly) bravely going back with the flight and O'Meara coming hard on the lead. A clash was inevitable as O'Meara had already committed to trying to mark the ball and possibly would have had Witherden not entered the contest. There is no similarity to the Lynch incident as Lynch had never left the ground to contest the mark until he was past the drop zone and headed for impact with Keath, which is why he his has been sent to the tribunal.

They way you are reading this does not account for one crucial thing. Lynch had committed to jumping or leaving the ground to contest the mark. When you look at the still shots and footage you can see his eye is on the ball until his left leg is planted and ready to jump for the ball. It is not reasonable to expect him to process and execute all of the following in perfect sequence:

1. here is an aerial marking contest, I will set myself to jump for the ball while running at speed
2. damn, I have misjudged the flight of the ball
3. I now need to within probably less than 0.1 to 0.15 of a second, which is about the limit of human reaction time, turn off the jump instruction my brain gave my body because there is an opponent in a vulnerable position in front of me, whilst bracing for inevitable contact, thus leaving myself in a vulnerable position if he leaves the ground to contest the mark. Or if I am leaving the ground I need to make out I am trying to mark the ball but putting my arms up in the air, leaving my torso vulnerable if the oncoming player does not leave the ground.

Lynch probably did the only thing you could sensibly expect him to do in the scenario. The onus should be on Keath as he has run grounded into an area where he would be expected to know oncoming players will be leaping in the air whilst running in the opposite direction.

My reading of what Lynch cannot or should not do in this situation is attempt to protect himself by raising his arms in such a way they are likely to make contact with Keath's head, ie the Dangerfield on Vlastuin and Cameron on Andews option. Given the speed they are moving and the extremely limited time available for Lynch to decide on a course of action just about anything else he decides to do(other than raise his arms to protect himself) should be seen as reasonable.

 

[lvt06]

There is no similarity to the Lynch incident as Lynch had never left the ground to contest the mark until he was past the drop zone and headed for impact with Keath, which is why he his has been sent to the tribunal.

You're saying this like there was a heaps of time between the leap and the "bump"
When Lynch say he missed the ball and when he left the ground all happen in a spilt second all while his eyes were on the ball.

You also mentioned;

Witherden (stupidly) bravely going back with the flight and O'Meara coming hard on the lead. A clash was inevitable

This is exactly the same scenario, Keath comes back with the flight of the ball, with NO eyes for the football at all, with his sole intention to block Lynchs just at the ball. A clash, high or low was completely inevitable, not because of Lynch, 100% because of Keath and the stupid position he put himself in.

The decision to suspend in these circumstances will completing change the fabric of football, it is quite scary.

On a side note, I have seen Richmond people try and defence Broads tackle, that was wrong on all levels, those two arm pinned head slam tackles have to be out of the game.

 

[Roachy8]

On a side note, I have seen Richmond people try and defence Broads tackle, that was wrong on all levels, those two arm pinned head slam tackles have to be out of the game.

Agree with your post but feel I need to correct bolded bit - player had one arm free, however was not able to use it to help himself in the circumstances though....

 

[lvt06]

Agree with your post but feel I need to correct bolded bit - player had one arm free, however was not able to use it to help himself in the circumstances though....

Fair. Still nasty.

These tackles will become like lifting in NRL, it is just not accepted by anyone at any level.

 

[Thrasher97]

Maybe this sounds harsh, but maybe just maybe Keith should take some duty of care for himself? There was no way he was marking that ball, his only intent was to, harm/or put off Lynch from marking the ball.

The AFL is a joke, i don't care if Lynch is injured, if he gets any time for that, I think I'm done with the game.
Even a financial sanction would be BS

 

[biaseddustyfan]

what time is the lynching

 

[_RT_]

They way you are reading this does not account for one crucial thing. Lynch had committed to jumping or leaving the ground to contest the mark. When you look at the still shots and footage you can see his eye is on the ball until his left leg is planted and ready to jump for the ball. It is not reasonable to expect him to process and execute all of the following in perfect sequence:

1. here is an aerial marking contest, I will set myself to jump for the ball while running at speed
2. damn, I have misjudged the flight of the ball
3. I now need to within probably less than 0.1 to 0.15 of a second, which is about the limit of human reaction time, turn off the jump instruction my brain gave my body because there is an opponent in a vulnerable position in front of me, whilst bracing for inevitable contact, thus leaving myself in a vulnerable position if he leaves the ground to contest the mark. Or if I am leaving the ground I need to make out I am trying to mark the ball but putting my arms up in the air, leaving my torso vulnerable if the oncoming player does not leave the ground.

Lynch probably did the only thing you could sensibly expect him to do in the scenario. The onus should be on Keath as he has run grounded into an area where he would be expected to know oncoming players will be leaping in the air whilst running in the opposite direction.

My reading of what Lynch cannot or should not do in this situation is attempt to protect himself by raising his arms in such a way they are likely to make contact with Keath's head, ie the Dangerfield on Vlastuin and Cameron on Andews option. Given the speed they are moving and the extremely limited time available for Lynch to decide on a course of action just about anything else he decides to do(other than raise his arms to protect himself) should be seen as reasonable.

I don't disagree with any of that, but the MRO doesn't really take all that into account. His responsibility is to lay the charge as per the guidelines issued, which he has done.

He will look at the following:
Did Lynch have an alternative course of action? As much as we don't agree, he could have contested the mark but didn't

Did Lynch elect to bump? Technically yes, given he braced for impact.

Did Lynch leave his feet while bumping/making contact with Keath? Yes and when you look at the side on angle Lynch doesn't leave his feet until he starts to brace for the collision with Keath.

What was the outcome? Keath left the ground and failed a concussion test.

As I said now it's up to our advocate to prove all the points everyone here has been putting forward in defence of Lynch. If they do then he gets off, if not he'll be suspended.

You're saying this like there was a heaps of time between the leap and the "bump"
When Lynch say he missed the ball and when he left the ground all happen in a spilt second all while his eyes were on the ball.

You also mentioned;



This is exactly the same scenario, Keath comes back with the flight of the ball, with NO eyes for the football at all, with his sole intention to block Lynchs just at the ball. A clash, high or low was completely inevitable, not because of Lynch, 100% because of Keath and the stupid position he put himself in.

The decision to suspend in these circumstances will completing change the fabric of football, it is quite scary.

On a side note, I have seen Richmond people try and defence Broads tackle, that was wrong on all levels, those two arm pinned head slam tackles have to be out of the game.

Keath had eyes on the ball as does Lynch when both decide to try and contest the ball, it's only when Keath is either called out by teammates or sees Lynch and Jones coming that he pulls out of trying to fly for the ball.

Again the difference between Lynch/Keath & O'Meara/Witherden is that both O'Meara and Witherden had left the ground when they collided both had eyes solely for the ball and the collision was the result of both players trying to either take the mark or effect a spoil and neither had pulled out of that contest as opposed to what I mentioned above with Lynch/Keath.

 

[SunshineBoy]

what time is the lynching

10-20 am federation square, followed by the Guilottine

 

[rfctigerarmy]

10-20 am federation square, followed by the Guilottine

Good time slot though

 

[Do the Dew]

I don't disagree with any of that, but the MRO doesn't really take all that into account. His responsibility is to lay the charge as per the guidelines issued, which he has done.

He will look at the following:
Did Lynch have an alternative course of action? As much as we don't agree, he could have contested the mark but didn't

Did Lynch elect to bump? Technically yes, given he braced for impact.

Did Lynch leave his feet while bumping/making contact with Keath? Yes and when you look at the side on angle Lynch doesn't leave his feet until he starts to brace for the collision with Keath.

What was the outcome? Keath left the ground and failed a concussion test.

As I said now it's up to our advocate to prove all the points everyone here has been putting forward in defence of Lynch. If they do then he gets off, if not he'll be suspended.



Keath had eyes on the ball as does Lynch when both decide to try and contest the ball, it's only when Keath is either called out by teammates or sees Lynch and Jones coming that he pulls out of trying to fly for the ball.

Again the difference between Lynch/Keath & O'Meara/Witherden is that both O'Meara and Witherden had left the ground when they collided both had eyes solely for the ball and the collision was the result of both players trying to either take the mark or effect a spoil and neither had pulled out of that contest as opposed to what I mentioned above with Lynch/Keath.

Think you're giving way too much credit to Michael Christian. Past rulings have shown he's incompetent as ****, doubly so given that they let the Witherden/Freo incident highlighted earlier completely go. He hands out penalties based on what the media is able to drum up. Remember when both Vlastuin and Grimes got fined by MC for staging a couple of years ago after the incidents went nuts on social media. Then we challenged and both fines were thrown out.

You've even contradicted yourself in the part I've bolded above. Bracing for impact does not equal a bump. A player could be standing completely still with a guy sprinting at them, the standing player goes "oh shit, I'm about to be flattened here", and turns his shoulder to protect himself. You can't say that the standing player bumped the guy running into him. The other point is intent. If you bump, then there's an intent to hit a guy with your shoulder. It's obvious when there's an intention to bump because players will lean into the contact and often follow through because their momentum is taking them forward. Think the Pickett/Franklin/McAdam bumps from Rd 1. Lynch's is completely different.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I don't disagree with any of that, but the MRO doesn't really take all that into account. His responsibility is to lay the charge as per the guidelines issued, which he has done.

He will look at the following:
Did Lynch have an alternative course of action? As much as we don't agree, he could have contested the mark but didn't

Did Lynch elect to bump? Technically yes, given he braced for impact.

Did Lynch leave his feet while bumping/making contact with Keath? Yes and when you look at the side on angle Lynch doesn't leave his feet until he starts to brace for the collision with Keath.

What was the outcome? Keath left the ground and failed a concussion test.

As I said now it's up to our advocate to prove all the points everyone here has been putting forward in defence of Lynch. If they do then he gets off, if not he'll be suspended.



Keath had eyes on the ball as does Lynch when both decide to try and contest the ball, it's only when Keath is either called out by teammates or sees Lynch and Jones coming that he pulls out of trying to fly for the ball.

Again the difference between Lynch/Keath & O'Meara/Witherden is that both O'Meara and Witherden had left the ground when they collided both had eyes solely for the ball and the collision was the result of both players trying to either take the mark or effect a spoil and neither had pulled out of that contest as opposed to what I mentioned above with Lynch/Keath.

Ok let's take this a step further then. Here are a couple of the stills shown earlier in the thread.



I have watched some footage of players setting themselves for marks an I am quite confident players take at least 4 steps per second in these situations. You can clearly see the second last step, probably about 0.2 to 0.25 seconds before Lynch is set to jump, his eyes are on the ball and he is setting himself to jump. Some time in the next 0.2 to 0.25 seconds he is reacting to new information, ie that he was going to collide with Keath and had misjudged the flight of the ball. It takes humans around 0.2 seconds to recognise and react, elite sportsmen maybe a little quicker than that.

So at most 0.25 seconds before jumping he is 100% intending to jump at the ball, I think the first photo shows that pretty clearly. When he changed his mind and decided to not jump at the ball could for example have been half way between his right foot being on support and his left foot being on support. As little as 0.10 seconds or possibly even less. This would generally not be enough time for a player to abort a previously planned action. So he could have been irrevocably committed to the jump but had just enough time to decide to also turn side on and brace.

And remember even if there was sufficient time for him to react and choose all the correct courses of action, he has absolutely no time to weigh up pros and cons of one course of action over another. He more or less has to act instinctively. You cannot train this precise formation of positioning and velocity of all the moving parts because there are so many possible combinations, it is just something you need to react to instinctively as it arises.

The only possible guilt you could assign to Lynch here is he jumped into the collision, given the collision was clearly unavoidable for him. But I think the above shows it is highly doubtful he had enough time to be able to abandon the jump between realising he had misjudged the ball and launching his jump.