Magpies must look past Brown and into the midfield

[James Bond 008]

COMPLETELY DISAGREE!

If we can get Jonathan Brown, and we don't; It will be AS BIG AS AN STUFF UP as it was not getting Tony Lockett.

Yes, we definitely need help in the midfield. Blind Freddy can see that. However, Midfielders are EASY TO FIND compared with GUN CENTRE HALF FORWARDS.

Jonathan Brown is a Champion; what's to say he wont last as long as Matthew Richardson?

How do we know Rusling will last more than 5 more games?
How do we know Reid will ever put on size and make it?
How do we know that Dawes will continue his outstanding form (i.e 2 games) for the rest of his career?

And how the HELL do we know Brownys body will keep up with him.

 

[James Bond 008]

Cloke was never a shocking kick, He is a lot like Riewoldt, an excellent kick with good technique, but prone to innacuracy on set shots. Reid is simply, by AFL standards, a very poor kick and always will be. Wishing and hoping unfortunately won't make a player a good kick.

What a load pig vomit i just read, how can you say Reid will always be a sh1t kick, oh sure you would know wouldnt you.

 

[shawthing09]

Buddy is strong however it is his pace that worries most defenses. Reid has that pace too. I still think that Buddy will be much stronger one-on-one than Reid though. This isn't a bad thing though... We have Cloke and Dawes who are very big boys so having Reid playing a different role is actually good for our forward composition IMO

Can't agree with the one on one thing. I think Buddy clearly is going to be the better of the two players. Namely because of his X factor and freakishness and as you have stated both of Ried and Franklins strengths are their athletism and Buddy's is better.

That said when buddy was drafted his overhead marking was very very very poor. His one on one body work was poor too. His strength at afl level was his ability to take chest marks uncontested and crumbing marks. At the same stages in their career Reid is deffinately stronger overhead.

 

[kevind]

What a load pig vomit i just read, how can you say Reid will always be a sh1t kick, oh sure you would know wouldnt you.

Just watch and learn , sonny!!!!

 

[Dave The Man]

Can't agree with the one on one thing. I think Buddy clearly is going to be the better of the two players. Namely because of his X factor and freakishness and as you have stated both of Ried and Franklins strengths are their athletism and Buddy's is better.

That said when buddy was drafted his overhead marking was very very very poor. His one on one body work was poor too. His strength at afl level was his ability to take chest marks uncontested and crumbing marks. At the same stages in their career Reid is deffinately stronger overhead.

I agree with Reid is a Better Mark then Buddy but Buddy makes up for it with how good he is on the Ground, Where he can pick the ball up and do something amazing and Kick a goal

 

[M-Train]

And how the HELL do we know Brownys body will keep up with him.

How the HELL do we know it won't?

 

[shawthing09]

How the HELL do we know it won't?

Your either very confused about where our list is at, or have a clear case of big name lust under the illusion that a big name player makes a side 10 fold better.

Our fowards have not been the problem all year. When given good oppertunity more often then not they have delivered. Our stocks in that area are only improving as our younger players develop.

On the other hand our midfield has let us down all year. Our backline and fowardline look worse becasue of the fact that we have been smacked in the midfiled so bad on so many occasions. We have watch carlton get through our midfield at ease and give Harry no chance as the ball is delivered lace out to Fev. Then watched our fowards work hard on leads only to the ball at their feet or bombed over their head.

Brown is a star. If we were a side that was a real premiership threat now and a fowardline was a major weakness (doggies for example.) I would be right there with you saying Brown at all cost he will get us a flag. That is not where we at.

He can not change a game from the fowardline when our middle is getting smacked.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

Brown is a star. If we were a side that was a real premiership threat now and a fowardline was a major weakness (doggies for example.) I would be right there with you saying Brown at all cost he will get us a flag. That is not where we at.

He can not change a game from the fowardline when our middle is getting smacked.

Precisely. Exhibit A for the prosecution: Brisbane's current ladder position. If Brown is gonna have such a profound impact on Collingwood's fortunes, the question has to be asked: why are Brisbane languishing in the same midladder nowhere zone as us?

 

[Jabso]

Cloke was never a shocking kick, He is a lot like Riewoldt, an excellent kick with good technique, but prone to innacuracy on set shots. Reid is simply, by AFL standards, a very poor kick and always will be. Wishing and hoping unfortunately won't make a player a good kick.

Cloke rarely has a good miss. Everyone of his misses are absolute shanks rather than other players who may miss a lot but still do almost everything right in their routine. He can nail a shot from anywhere as long as he hits the sweet spot. He actually doesn't have that many shots on goal as when he's in range he looks to pass off (most of our players are like this).

One of Franklin's problems is he has too many shots. Sure he can kick them from anywhere but he hasn't got the composure to spot a teammate so he'll panic and go to whats comfortable and that's a wild shot. Once he learns how to do that he'll be even more scary because he's a brilliant passer as well.

 

[M-Train]

Your either very confused about where our list is at, or have a clear case of big name lust under the illusion that a big name player makes a side 10 fold better.

Our fowards have not been the problem all year. When given good oppertunity more often then not they have delivered. Our stocks in that area are only improving as our younger players develop.

On the other hand our midfield has let us down all year. Our backline and fowardline look worse becasue of the fact that we have been smacked in the midfiled so bad on so many occasions. We have watch carlton get through our midfield at ease and give Harry no chance as the ball is delivered lace out to Fev. Then watched our fowards work hard on leads only to the ball at their feet or bombed over their head.

Brown is a star. If we were a side that was a real premiership threat now and a fowardline was a major weakness (doggies for example.) I would be right there with you saying Brown at all cost he will get us a flag. That is not where we at.

He can not change a game from the fowardline when our middle is getting smacked.

Some good points there, however we are talking about JONATHAN BROWN here!

What's to say that a player like Daniel Kerr will be the answer to all our problems. If we look at THIS YEARS form at West Coast; Daniel Kerr has been no where near the player he was with Judd and Cousins playing alongside with him.

Let me just say, A champion centre half forward can make an entire team look good!

I have been to every game in Melbourne this year, and I think we are nowhere near strong enough at half forward. Besides the Port game, let's be honest here, how often does Travis Cloke take a contested mark?

The Hawthorn game was a perfect example of our shortcomings at half forward; YES our midfielders did butcher the ball into the forward line on more than one occasion, however a champion like Brown can cover these shortcomings!

I just think it would be definately worth the shot in getting Jonathon Brown! Like I said before, he brings premiership experience and more importantly LEADERSHIP.

My opinion is the loss of leadership from Buckley and Clement has had a huge effect on the club this year. Scott Burns has done a good job so far, but from the outside looking in, I don't think he has the leadership abilities of these two past champions.

If Burns retires, we have no clear candidate for captain do we?


GO PIES!

 

[Pedro]

And how the HELL do we know Brownys body will keep up with him.

We don't. But I don't know this weeks lotto numbers either. I'm sure the medicos will go over Brown. The fact is, in the last two years he has played more football than in any other period during his career. I think he has missed 1 game in two years. Is that a sign of his body so called crumbling?. We may be well aware that he might only get 3-4 years, but if we want him badly enough we might have to pay the price. I would say they would squeeze his entire 5 year pay into the first 3-4 anyway. It may bne a conditional contract. Who knows.

 

[Kirby]

I have been to every game in Melbourne this year, and I think we are nowhere near strong enough at half forward. Besides the Port game, let's be honest here, how often does Travis Cloke take a contested mark?

Well, he must take a few because he is right up there in the league stats for contested marks I believe.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

Let me just say, A champion centre half forward can make an entire team look good!

I have been to every game in Melbourne this year, and I think we are nowhere near strong enough at half forward. Besides the Port game, let's be honest here, how often does Travis Cloke take a contested mark?

This year Travis is averaging 1.7 contested marks per game compared to Jonathan Brown's 1.6 contested marks per game.

The Hawthorn game was a perfect example of our shortcomings at half forward; YES our midfielders did butcher the ball into the forward line on more than one occasion, however a champion like Brown can cover these shortcomings!

If Jonathan Brown can cover so many shortcomings, why are Brisbane languishing below us on the ladder?

I just think it would be definately worth the shot in getting Jonathon Brown! Like I said before, he brings premiership experience and more importantly LEADERSHIP.

And yet despite having the LEADERSHIP of Jonathan Brown and his triple premiership mates, Simon Black and Luke Power, where are Brisbane on the ladder? And if you think he's gonna walk in the door and stop our off-field shenanigans by sheer force of LEADERSHIP, why would he have any more impact than Buckley, Clement, Licuria and co who were all at the club when Didak got in hot water with Hudson, Tarrant and Johnson got in a punch-up, and Chad Morrison rode a scooter while intoxicated?

What's Brown gonna be able to do off-field that Buckley, Clement, Licuria and co couldn't?

 

[well left]

And yet despite having the LEADERSHIP of Jonathan Brown and his triple premiership mates, Simon Black and Luke Power, where are Brisbane on the ladder? And if you think he's gonna walk in the door and stop our off-field shenanigans by sheer force of LEADERSHIP, why would he have any more impact than Buckley, Clement, Licuria and co who were all at the club when Didak got in hot water with Hudson, Tarrant and Johnson got in a punch-up, and Chad Morrison rode a scooter while intoxicated?

What's Brown gonna be able to do off-field that Buckley, Clement, Licuria and co couldn't?

I agree with this. Buckley has hinted that the leadership group wanted to do more when it came to previous incidents but the club (whether it is Malthouse or Greg Swann previously) determined the punishments.

The issue has not been leadership in the past and I don't think it will be in the future. The club has hopefully woken up and new processes are now in place.

 

[shawthing09]

Let me just say, A champion centre half forward can make an entire team look good!

I have been to every game in Melbourne this year, and I think we are nowhere near strong enough at half forward. Besides the Port game, let's be honest here, how often does Travis Cloke take a contested mark?

This year Travis is averaging 1.7 contested marks per game compared to Jonathan Brown's 1.6 contested marks per game.



If Jonathan Brown can cover so many shortcomings, why are Brisbane languishing below us on the ladder?



And yet despite having the LEADERSHIP of Jonathan Brown and his triple premiership mates, Simon Black and Luke Power, where are Brisbane on the ladder? And if you think he's gonna walk in the door and stop our off-field shenanigans by sheer force of LEADERSHIP, why would he have any more impact than Buckley, Clement, Licuria and co who were all at the club when Didak got in hot water with Hudson, Tarrant and Johnson got in a punch-up, and Chad Morrison rode a scooter while intoxicated?

What's Brown gonna be able to do off-field that Buckley, Clement, Licuria and co couldn't?

Palmer beat me to it in regards to most of your. I would like to address the bolded part though. I am just 21 so in terms of dominate CHF fowards that make a side look better the obvious one is Carey. That said the days of being able to isolate a key foward and bomb it to him and let him dominate are over. Look at the amount of times players like Fev, Brown, Pav have to deal with multiple players blocking their space. Whilst they still do well individually because they are that good, from a team perspective they suffer as for every mark and goal they contribute to there is an easy rebound out of the 50 for another team. CHF is almost an obselete position in todays game of run and carry.

It is no suprise that the first guy in a long time to get near the 100 is a super athlete who is good on the deck and has a good midfield. More importantly he also has very good foils in Roughhead and Williams. Something which Cloke hasn't had the luxury of this year. It is also no coincedence that Trav's best form last year and this year has been with another tall target to take some of the focus off him.

Look at WCE premiership side at the current doggies side for proof that with a good midfield your foward structure is not that important.

 

[M-Train]

This year Travis is averaging 1.7 contested marks per game compared to Jonathan Brown's 1.6 contested marks per game.

Well imagine how good we would be with both in our forward line?

If Jonathan Brown can cover so many shortcomings, why are Brisbane languishing below us on the ladder? And yet despite having the LEADERSHIP of Jonathan Brown and his triple premiership mates, Simon Black and Luke Power, where are Brisbane on the ladder?

Brisbane are languishing below us on the ladder simply because their list isn't as good as ours. In an ideal world; we should have been challenging for the premiership this year, shouldn't we?

It's just like asking if Daniel Kerr is so good, why are West Coast down the bottom of the ladder this year?

And if you think he's gonna walk in the door and stop our off-field shenanigans by sheer force of LEADERSHIP, why would he have any more impact than Buckley, Clement, Licuria and co who were all at the club when Didak got in hot water with Hudson, Tarrant and Johnson got in a punch-up, and Chad Morrison rode a scooter while intoxicated?

When have I said that he would walk in and stop our off field shenanigans by sheer force of LEADERSHIP? I've never said that?

The facts are Buckley, Clement and Licuria are not there anymore! Losing all 3 at once has definitely hurt us. My opinion is that the loss of these great leaders has hit the club hard from the outside looking in.

Carn The Pies!!

 

[shawthing09]

Well imagine how good we would be with both in our forward line?



Brisbane are languishing below us on the ladder simply because their list isn't as good as ours. In an ideal world; we should have been challenging for the premiership this year, shouldn't we?

It's just like asking if Daniel Kerr is so good, why are West Coast down the bottom of the ladder this year?



When have I said that he would walk in and stop our off field shenanigans by sheer force of LEADERSHIP? I've never said that?

The facts are Buckley, Clement and Licuria are not there anymore! Losing all 3 at once has definitely hurt us. My opinion is that the loss of these great leaders has hit the club hard from the outside looking in.

Carn The Pies!!

WCE list is horrible. Brisbane's midfield is good, they have 2 key fowards firing in Brown and Bradshaw and two reliable backs in Merret and Macdonald, their list is in no way worse then ours.

I am assuming your a bit older and from the days where players who where stars like Carey, Dunstall and Locket would smash defenders one on one with strength, pace and all round stardom. When one good game or quater from a player like that could turn a match on it's head.

Since those days teams have figured out to stop a side with a player like that simply don't let that player get one on one. In now days when that player tries to dash out on a lead there is 2 guys zoning of to get into the space and cut the ball off coming into him. When he tries to beat an opponent with strength those same 2 players are working hard to be the third man up and kill the contest. 1 foward can't carry a side on his shoulders. Fev has been top 5 in the coleman for the last 5 years and yet Carlton haven't finished in the top 8 in that time.

 

[M-Train]

WCE list is horrible. Brisbane's midfield is good, they have 2 key fowards firing in Brown and Bradshaw and two reliable backs in Merret and Macdonald, their list is in no way worse then ours.

West Coast's list is nowhere near as bad as they are on the ladder. The loss of Judd and Cousins has hurt them but both missed huge portions of last year, and they were a top 4 team last year. Brisbane's list is still good but I wouldn't say it is as good as ours, they have had their time in the sun!

I am assuming your a bit older and from the days where players who where stars like Carey, Dunstall and Locket would smash defenders one on one with strength, pace and all round stardom. When one good game or quater from a player like that could turn a match on it's head.

There's a bloke who wears 23 at Hawthorn that's pretty good at turning matches!

Since those days teams have figured out to stop a side with a player like that simply don't let that player get one on one. In now days when that player tries to dash out on a lead there is 2 guys zoning of to get into the space and cut the ball off coming into him. When he tries to beat an opponent with strength those same 2 players are working hard to be the third man up and kill the contest. 1 foward can't carry a side on his shoulders. Fev has been top 5 in the coleman for the last 5 years and yet Carlton haven't finished in the top 8 in that time.

Exactly, you just said it.... 1 forward can't carry a side on his shoulders.... I'm sure 2 can. Look at Roughead and Franklin, Brown and Lynch back in the day.

If there are 2 or 3 guys zoning off to cut the ball coming into Brown; shouldn't it mean we have free men? Wouldn't getting a player like Brown in the club relieve the focus of Cloke? Imagine our forward line with Cloke, Brown, Didak, Dawes, Davis, and Thomas. Would cause headaches everywhere.

A player like Brown will make Cloke a much better player. I guarantee it! Sav Rocca had his best year when Brereton was there with him.

Go Pies!

 

[Genesis67]

WCE list is horrible. Brisbane's midfield is good, they have 2 key fowards firing in Brown and Bradshaw and two reliable backs in Merret and Macdonald, their list is in no way worse then ours.

WC's list is very (very) young, and has been devastated by the worst injury run the club has seen in its history. Next 2 years will hurt, but we wont be down for long. To call it horrible is just incorrect.

 

[SEEING EYE DOG]

Good luck with that gun midfielder you're gonna get for R. Shaw
and a late draft pick. I reckon you might get Adam Bentick or
Andrew McQualter. Maybe.

 

[HFF]

Good luck with that gun midfielder you're gonna get for R. Shaw
and a late draft pick. I reckon you might get Adam Bentick or
Andrew McQualter. Maybe.

Cheers. I don't recall anyone offering a late draft pick + rhyce shaw for any gun midfielder.

Anyway, good luck finding that elusive key forward that delivers premierships. I reckon you might get Damon White or Michael Newton. Maybe.

 

[Optimax]

Good luck with that gun midfielder you're gonna get for R. Shaw
and a late draft pick. I reckon you might get Adam Bentick or
Andrew McQualter. Maybe.

i know this is sarcasm and all but mcqualter isnt a terrible tagger and Bentick does one thing well and that is the one thing we need clearences

 

[shawthing09]

WC's list is very (very) young, and has been devastated by the worst injury run the club has seen in its history. Next 2 years will hurt, but we wont be down for long. To call it horrible is just incorrect.

I think you guys will have one of the quickest turn arounds and change overs. Your young talent is great and the Judd trade will end up a positive for you guys. That said the 22 your putting on the park this year is horrible and that is what I was referring to.

As for M-Train the guy wearing 23 for Hawthorn has a brilliant midfield feeding him and is a different foward entirely to Brown, his testement to the fact that as a foward in todays football athletism is greater then strength. His able to find space because his turning circle is so good and his so quick off the mark. When Browny is crashing into the blocks zoning off into his space Buddy is just going round them. His unique and very new breed foward Brown is a different kettle of fish.

Hodge is the best user of the ball in football today bar none. On top of that Hawthorn's midfield wins more ofthen then they lose. Look at where Hawthorn are in terms of goals scored from clearances.

 

[Heater39]

I think we should make a play for Lovett. He has incredible pace and is a line-breaker, just what our midfield needs.

 

[Crazy Tails]

I think we should make a play for Lovett. He has incredible pace and is a line-breaker, just what our midfield needs.

Agree he could be a good line breaker, but in light of the recent events I doubt we would take on a player that got flicked from his own club for off field misdeamours.