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AFLW 2024 - Round 9 - Indigenous Round - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
makybe diva
- Thread starter ablett factor
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- #152
Deej said:
hmmm, me thinks her WFA middle distance exploits kinda are not to be overlooked there Deej. course record holder at Flemo for 2000ms, won the Cox over the 2040ms, has a few more WFAs at 2400ms and you can add a few WFA wins at the mile as well to the list.
I have to admit, and you really cant compare them, but she has to be at least on a par with the greatest if not edging a little ahead. Lets not forget, breeding and horse science has come a long way these days, and Makybe is doing what she is doign against international raiders, international sires, you name it she has faced them, and Phar Lap only had to really take care of a few locals and Kiwis.
- Banned
- #153
If you're going to mention the course record then you should also mention that her cox plate win was the slowest in the past 30 years.CoggaRules said:hmmm, me thinks her WFA middle distance exploits kinda are not to be overlooked there Deej. course record holder at Flemo for 2000ms, won the Cox over the 2040ms, has a few more WFAs at 2400ms and you can add a few WFA wins at the mile as well to the list.
I have to admit, and you really cant compare them, but she has to be at least on a par with the greatest if not edging a little ahead. Lets not forget, breeding and horse science has come a long way these days, and Makybe is doing what she is doign against international raiders, international sires, you name it she has faced them, and Phar Lap only had to really take care of a few locals and Kiwis.
Her course record was because of a couple of idiot jocks up front, she sat back and ran past some very tired animals. She broke Northerly's course record, when he sat 3-wide all the way without cover and kicked their brains in. Very difficult to compare different eras but you can't tell me she'd win even an average lightning stakes, she just isn't a sprinter.
My point isn't to run her down, just keep everything in some perspective. There are different champions, there's sprinters, milers, middle distance horses, and stayers. She's a stayer.
- Banned
- #154
Deej said:
LOL, so her course record isnt a course record? Like i kinda thought that meant that no one has gone faster in history than her over 2000ms at Flemo, including Phar Lap. Whatever or whoever set it up in front, she still has to run the time i guess. On her Cox Plate win, well maybe it was the slowest in the last 30 years, and most likely infeorior field to other years, but kinda suggest we really can start talking about the champions that Phar Lap was putting away in all his wins to then.
- Banned
- #155
We can be stupid or we can try and sensibly reason our opinions. Want another crack at it cogga?CoggaRules said:LOL, so her course record isnt a course record? Like i kinda thought that meant that no one has gone faster in history than her over 2000ms at Flemo, including Phar Lap. Whatever or whoever set it up in front, she still has to run the time i guess. On her Cox Plate win, well maybe it was the slowest in the last 30 years, and most likely infeorior field to other years, but kinda suggest we really can start talking about the champions that Phar Lap was putting away in all his wins to then.
- Banned
- #156
Deej said:
ok, how about we go to the record book, get each record holder, watch the video of the race that broke the record, and then if the jockeys went mad up front, strike it from the records because Deej suggests that the record is there because of it? Is that how I shoudld read it Deej?
- Banned
- #157
No of course not. But there are circumstances cogga, and fact is MD's aust cup win was set up by certain airhead jocks going bananas up front which set it up for a back marker to swoop. Northerly set his record not by waiting back and getting any sort of cart into the record books, he sat 3 wide and did it hard. Don't forget it was an australian record too at the time.CoggaRules said:ok, how about we go to the record book, get each record holder, watch the video of the race that broke the record, and then if the jockeys went mad up front, strike it from the records because Deej suggests that the record is there because of it? Is that how I shoudld read it Deej?
- Banned
- #158
Deej said:
so whats the debate about? Northerly v Diva?.
The thing is you really cant compare any horses side by side when their careers were not side by side, since when Northerly was kicking butt, the Diva was on the rise and not on top as she is now.
The essence of greatness is purely aligned to the deeds of a certain horse and not how they acheived them and what the opposition was, you can only beat the horses you run against, and the record book doesnt have clauses next to the results that say, oh she won 3 cups on the trot, a cox, a sydney cup, a BMW, but she didnt have the best of the best like Northerly etc had to compete with.
The deal with the Phar Lap v Diva is purely based on the fact that Phar Lap did it when the depression was happening and the press was full boar for the legend in hard times, with the usual cabinet in the museum holding the champ etc. His untimely death adds to the aura of the legend, but I cant leave out the Diva from at least the equal of him, because her record speaks for itself.
- Banned
- #161
Northerly would rip her a new one over 2000m wfa, and if you don't think that you're part of the reason why i got 4's for him in the 2002 cox plate.CoggaRules said:so whats the debate about? Northerly v Diva?.
The thing is you really cant compare any horses side by side when their careers were not side by side, since when Northerly was kicking butt, the Diva was on the rise and not on top as she is now.
The essence of greatness is purely aligned to the deeds of a certain horse and not how they acheived them and what the opposition was, you can only beat the horses you run against, and the record book doesnt have clauses next to the results that say, oh she won 3 cups on the trot, a cox, a sydney cup, a BMW, but she didnt have the best of the best like Northerly etc had to compete with.
The deal with the Phar Lap v Diva is purely based on the fact that Phar Lap did it when the depression was happening and the press was full boar for the legend in hard times, with the usual cabinet in the museum holding the champ etc. His untimely death adds to the aura of the legend, but I cant leave out the Diva from at least the equal of him, because her record speaks for itself.
But i'm not trying to compare them, just put her deeds into some perspective.
Wakeful won a melbourne cup and an Oakleigh Plate, plus a bunch more group 1's, and in her 2nd cup tilt was lumped with 63kg or something ridiculous and only got beat a neck by a horse carrying 42kgs!!!
Tell me Makybe Diva could've carried 63kgs and won the cup, then i'll admit she's up with Wakeful. But Wakeful is still a step below PharLap. Please is it possible we can have some perspective in all this hype!
starz said:I do acknowledge them but Makybe has it over them by winning 2 Melbourne Cups & she has to be ranked ahead of them and what if she were to win 3... greatest of all time behind phar lap?
A good call back in March... but in hindsight she is better than Phar Lap.
6 of Makybe Diva's 15 wins have come this year. Why is that? Anything to do with the quality of horses racing in Australia at the moment? She was cleaned up overseas. If Elvis was racing this year would the Diva be still rated as the best?
I think she is very lucky in that she is the only decent race horse going around at the moment. I mean Northerly and Sunline had to compete with each other as did Might and Power and Doremius. Octaganol raced against top company as did Mahogany.
What champions has Makybe Diva beaten this year. Lad of the Manor would be about the best of them and he is not proven yet.
I don't think it is any coincidence that 2005 is by far Makybe Diva's best ever year.
I think she is very lucky in that she is the only decent race horse going around at the moment. I mean Northerly and Sunline had to compete with each other as did Might and Power and Doremius. Octaganol raced against top company as did Mahogany.
What champions has Makybe Diva beaten this year. Lad of the Manor would be about the best of them and he is not proven yet.
I don't think it is any coincidence that 2005 is by far Makybe Diva's best ever year.
I'll bet you $1000 @ $1.10 you weren't on Diva in the Cup...
I can tell by your lack of racing knowledge. And your constant bs anti-Diva posts always looking for the lamest of excuses and reasons to have a whinge. You were probably on one of the hyped int'l horses like eye popper or Vinnie Roe lol.
Muppet
I can tell by your lack of racing knowledge. And your constant bs anti-Diva posts always looking for the lamest of excuses and reasons to have a whinge. You were probably on one of the hyped int'l horses like eye popper or Vinnie Roe lol.
Muppet
Borry
Protected Species
- Aug 15, 2004
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The greatest Melbourne Cup horse of all time.
Bartram_Class
Brownlow Medallist
Who?
Just kidding, best horse i've personally ever seen.
Just kidding, best horse i've personally ever seen.
- Banned
- #171
Eye popper @ $41 before he was hyped and before they doctored the track.starz said:
I backed MD in the '05 turnbull, her sydney cup win, the bmw and one or two others. Like with Lonhro and Sunline, I'm certainly not blindly against the mare....i just don't like people claiming hype horses of the moment to be the 'best ever' or 'best in the world' when circumstances fall perfectly into place for them and they beat virtually nothing in spectacular fashion.
