Game Day Marsh Series, R2: Carlton v Brisbane, Sunday March 8th, 6.40pm (AEDT) @ Ikon Park

[Bamboo Harvester]

Just a random thought completely in the wrong thread....BUT....if Willo and Newman become regulars in defence alongside Doc, SPS settles as our rebounding HBF, Marchy finally overcomes his injuries.....could Plow become our next tagger (or 'run-with' player)?

Eduardo now 30...so we probably need to develop a succession plan for a defensive midfielder, even if Ed cops an injury. Plow was a mid in his junior days who has now developed a hardline defensive edge, as well as a good engine.

For mine, JSOS is too creative to be a defender....but what about Plow? Any love here.....didn't think so....but just thinking outside the box like we did with Jonesy a few years back.

 

[Funk]

I don't think they give us a handicap for that.

True - but 5kg of extra muscle can be a significant advantage while hunting the contested ball.......

 

[murphster]

Just a random thought completely in the wrong thread....BUT....if Willo and Newman become regulars in defence alongside Doc, SPS settles as our rebounding HBF, Marchy finally overcomes his injuries.....could Plow become our next tagger (or 'run-with' player)?

Eduardo now 30...so we probably need to develop a succession plan for a defensive midfielder, even if Ed cops an injury. Plow was a mid in his junior days who has now developed a hardline defensive edge, as well as a good engine.

For mine, JSOS is too creative to be a defender....but what about Plow? Any love here.....didn't think so....but just thinking outside the box like we did with Jonesy a few years back.

Interesting thought, could probably play as a straight out negator just not sure he has the hands in close that Ed has so not sure he would be much use offensively but I could be wrong, does he have the tank to play a run with role don’t know to be honest, been in defence his whole AFL career so I honestly couldn’t say, could certainly clear a path for others that’s for sure he’s a big boy, that’s the other thing he would probably have to slim down I would think to play mid all day, certainly worth bringing up and would solve the Marchbank dilemma.

 

[murphster]

True - but 5kg of extra muscle can be a significant advantage while hunting the contested ball.......

He already has a significant size/weight advantage over most mids if not all so I think he can afford to lose a few and still have the upper hand on most, and we saw last year how much more effective he was when he did get out and run with it certainly lifted his metres gained numbers and allowed him to kick more goals as well by getting it and running inside 50, so I think the advantage it will give him on the outside out weighs, so to speak, any loss on the inside. Imo

PS Will also make him a shoe in for Charlie this year as well.

 

[Arr0w]

Just a random thought completely in the wrong thread....BUT....if Willo and Newman become regulars in defence alongside Doc, SPS settles as our rebounding HBF, Marchy finally overcomes his injuries.....could Plow become our next tagger (or 'run-with' player)?

Eduardo now 30...so we probably need to develop a succession plan for a defensive midfielder, even if Ed cops an injury. Plow was a mid in his junior days who has now developed a hardline defensive edge, as well as a good engine.

For mine, JSOS is too creative to be a defender....but what about Plow? Any love here.....didn't think so....but just thinking outside the box like we did with Jonesy a few years back.

It's worked with differing levels of success with some players, defenders to mids/tagger

White, K McIntosh, B Smith, Z Williams, R Henderson

 

[Tjblues]

I think the detractors of Newnes are at this stage quite a significant way off the mark and more than a little unfair.
We have been told, and continue to be told, that we have to be patient with this build, and we need to give players time.
Im aware Newnes isn’t a new draftee, but he’s new to Carlton, new to the system, new to his teammates, the list goes on.
Another exceedingly obvious point that people have used to defend some but not Newnes: It was a pre-season game. If we can’t judge the team as a whole or take the result seriously, why can we say with such confidence that Newnes is a dud?
I’m by no means saying he will be a superstar, but to write him off after 2 preseason games is cherry picking from a tiny sample size at best, and exceedingly arrogant dismissal of a largely unknown quantity at worst.
I’ll hop off my soapbox for now but I felt the need to attempt to add a different perspective to the largely one sided narrative

 

[Arr0w]

I think the detractors of Newnes are at this stage quite a significant way off the mark and more than a little unfair.
We have been told, and continue to be told, that we have to be patient with this build, and we need to give players time.
Im aware Newnes isn’t a new draftee, but he’s new to Carlton, new to the system, new to his teammates, the list goes on.
Another exceedingly obvious point that people have used to defend some but not Newnes: It was a pre-season game. If we can’t judge the team as a whole or take the result seriously, why can we say with such confidence that Newnes is a dud?
I’m by no means saying he will be a superstar, but to write him off after 2 preseason games is cherry picking from a tiny sample size at best, and exceedingly arrogant dismissal of a largely unknown quantity at worst.
I’ll hop off my soapbox for now but I felt the need to attempt to add a different perspective to the largely one sided narrative

Stay on that soapbox

 

[murphster]

I think the detractors of Newnes are at this stage quite a significant way off the mark and more than a little unfair.
We have been told, and continue to be told, that we have to be patient with this build, and we need to give players time.
Im aware Newnes isn’t a new draftee, but he’s new to Carlton, new to the system, new to his teammates, the list goes on.
Another exceedingly obvious point that people have used to defend some but not Newnes: It was a pre-season game. If we can’t judge the team as a whole or take the result seriously, why can we say with such confidence that Newnes is a dud?
I’m by no means saying he will be a superstar, but to write him off after 2 preseason games is cherry picking from a tiny sample size at best, and exceedingly arrogant dismissal of a largely unknown quantity at worst.
I’ll hop off my soapbox for now but I felt the need to attempt to add a different perspective to the largely one sided narrative

Just did a comparison between Newnes and Brandon Ellis who was another option for us at trade time also compared with Kamden McIntosh as he plays similar role and similar age, stats wise he compares pretty evenly with Ellis and is slightly above MacIntosh who plays wing for the premiers, his career DE% is at 74% which is reasonable for a wingman of his age and ability, obviously stats aren’t the be all and end all but are useful when comparing players of a similar age and position.

While he is no Brad Hill or Lachie Whitfield he is a more than serviceable player and I certainly expect his disposal to improve in the regular season and will play the role we traded him in to play while we wait for the younger guys to prove they are a better option.

 

[Treesloth]

Not really. What I saw on Sunday, live at the game, was consistently poor skill execution. If you can't hit a target by hand or by foot, trouble. If you cannot take a mark, trouble. Pretty simple really.

Ya don’t have a 70 point turnaround due to skill errors. Other factors like lack of intensity, getting beaten at the contest, and thumped in clearances were more of a factor for mine. Anyway, as i said, more than happy to be proven wrong.

 

[Stamos]

Its just an opinion. No more ridiculous than any of your opinions.

It’s ridiculous because you made up your mind with no evidence 4 years ago, and still hold it

 

[HARKER]

IMO, we easily have 22 players and more ahead of him for me. I have been iffy on JSOS since the day he joined. IMO, he has got more games than he's deserved because he's a Silvagni.

There are not many players that have shown more than for where JSilvagni was selected and that's what should be looked at.

If we had have taken him at #20 after a bid, you would have had a point...............but pick #53? Just a little unfair, it seems.

 

[VainGlorious]

Dusty could outscored us on his own

What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Not really. What I saw on Sunday, live at the game, was consistently poor skill execution. If you can't hit a target by hand or by foot, trouble. If you cannot take a mark, trouble. Pretty simple really.

Missed the first 30-40mins, did you?

 

[Windhover]

Murph passed to Eddie from 30 metres out directly in front. Does that make him low on confidence/a poor kick? Being a bit selective here I think.

Yes, I am being selective. Had Newnes passed to a player in a better position than he was in (as Murphy did), no worries. Newnes passed to a player who was further from goal and on a worse angle. Does that make Newnes low on confidence/a poor kick? Yes, I think so.

On what basis do you call Newnes a ‘known hack? His two preseason games. His 150+ games for Stkilda (no doubt you watched every one of them)?

Extremely biased post Windhover. With no factual content.

Facts
Newnes came to Carlton with a very big knock on his game - poor disposal/decision-making. Do you know nothing of this?

He was dropped last year by the Saints, twice.

He is now a mature-aged player with no evident room to improve his game.

His praccy match against Brisbane highlighted his poor disposal/decision-making.

Definition of a Hack

A footballer who when he/she gets a game does not have the skill set to compete at the level. Most commonly the inability to compete at the level consists of an inability to make decisions in the time provided, an inability to execute skills under the pressure applied, and/or an inability to compete 1 on 1 with direct opponents.

Newnes comfortably meets the definition.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Yes, I am being selective. Had Newnes passed to a player in a better position than he was in (as Murphy did), no worries. Newnes passed to a player who was further from goal and on a worse angle. Does that make Newnes low on confidence/a poor kick? Yes, I think so.



Facts
Newnes came to Carlton with a very big knock on his game - poor disposal/decision-making. Do you know nothing of this?

He was dropped last year by the Saints, twice.

He is now a mature-aged player with no evident room to improve his game.

His praccy match against Brisbane highlighted his poor disposal/decision-making.

Definition of a Hack

A footballer who when he/she gets a game does not have the skill set to compete at the level. Most commonly the inability to compete at the level consists of an inability to make decisions in the time provided, an inability to execute skills under the pressure applied, and/or an inability to compete 1 on 1 with direct opponents.

Newnes comfortably meets the definition.

So why did St Kilda offer him a 2 year contract extension last year?

 

[Monkey King]

This will be the first game I’ve been to since JSOS debuted and the first game I’ve been to with my brother since Kreuzer did his knee. I really hope they put up a good showing.

Yeah well that didn't go to plan. The Lions mids just waltzed out of centre bounces in the second half.

 

[Windhover]

I think the detractors of Newnes are at this stage quite a significant way off the mark and more than a little unfair.
We have been told, and continue to be told, that we have to be patient with this build, and we need to give players time.
Im aware Newnes isn’t a new draftee, but he’s new to Carlton, new to the system, new to his teammates, the list goes on.
Another exceedingly obvious point that people have used to defend some but not Newnes: It was a pre-season game. If we can’t judge the team as a whole or take the result seriously, why can we say with such confidence that Newnes is a dud?
I’m by no means saying he will be a superstar, but to write him off after 2 preseason games is cherry picking from a tiny sample size at best, and exceedingly arrogant dismissal of a largely unknown quantity at worst.
I’ll hop off my soapbox for now but I felt the need to attempt to add a different perspective to the largely one sided narrative

Your first defence: that Newnes is new to the Carlton system and teammates.

He is a very experienced player who has played all sorts of game plans under a number of coaches with a large number of players. If his excuse for poor ball handling and disposal and thinking in a praccy match is because he is new to us - this reeks dud.

Your second defence: that it was only a praccy match.

Maybe Newnes has improved significantly from the unwanted player who left the Saints. Maybe he has developed over summer, a la Warnie, a mystery ball to take the footy world by storm in the season proper and his praccy form is just a guise.

Or maybe not. Particularly given he could not be assuming he was playing round 1 come what may.

Your third defence: that there is only a 2 preseason sample to cherry pick.

Sure, because we can forget his past which includes leaving the Saints unwanted after 8 years service.

 

[Windhover]

So why did St Kilda offer him a 2 year contract extension last year?

There is every reason to believe he is a good clubman. He played 20 games last season. He runs hard and can "perform a role" if injuries mount. He did show good form a few years ago, give him confidence of a 2 year deal. Finally, clubs are periodically crazy, emotion-driven places and discarding a favourite son who is past it can be hard to do.

The more pertinent question is, if the Saints wanted to keep Newnes, why did they let him walk to us for nothing?

 

[Sector 7G]

Yes, I am being selective. Had Newnes passed to a player in a better position than he was in (as Murphy did), no worries. Newnes passed to a player who was further from goal and on a worse angle. Does that make Newnes low on confidence/a poor kick? Yes, I think so.



Facts
Newnes came to Carlton with a very big knock on his game - poor disposal/decision-making. Do you know nothing of this?

He was dropped last year by the Saints, twice.

He is now a mature-aged player with no evident room to improve his game.

His praccy match against Brisbane highlighted his poor disposal/decision-making.

Definition of a Hack

A footballer who when he/she gets a game does not have the skill set to compete at the level. Most commonly the inability to compete at the level consists of an inability to make decisions in the time provided, an inability to execute skills under the pressure applied, and/or an inability to compete 1 on 1 with direct opponents.

Newnes comfortably meets the definition.

The thing Newnes does is run to good positions and follow the game plan. Have too many young plays getting lost in play and the whole team structure falls down and hurts just as much as missing targets. Sadly I think that is why he is in the side over the vastly more skillful Cuningham. Hopefully Newnes plays at least the 2nd half of the year in the 2s

Having said that the 1st and 2nd year draftees (don't count Walsh as he is a pro) aren't getting games and it is time the players like Cuningham, OBrien, Dow, Setterfield step up.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

There is every reason to believe he is a good clubman. He played 20 games last season. He runs hard and can "perform a role" if injuries mount. He did show good form a few years ago, give him confidence of a 2 year deal. Finally, clubs are periodically crazy, emotion-driven places and discarding a favourite son who is past it can be hard to do.

The more pertinent question is, if the Saints wanted to keep Newnes, why did they let him walk to us for nothing?

Because he was uncontracted at the end of 2019, so they had no choice....the same as Jack Martin. Once he declined the Saints contract offer, he became a DFA.

They could have redrafted him against his wish to leave and move on, but they sensibly chose not to.

I'd personally prefer to give the guy a chance to see what he brings to the table, rather than shit-can him before the season has even started.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Yes, I am being selective. Had Newnes passed to a player in a better position than he was in (as Murphy did), no worries. Newnes passed to a player who was further from goal and on a worse angle. Does that make Newnes low on confidence/a poor kick? Yes, I think so.



Facts
Newnes came to Carlton with a very big knock on his game - poor disposal/decision-making. Do you know nothing of this?

He was dropped last year by the Saints, twice.

He is now a mature-aged player with no evident room to improve his game.

His praccy match against Brisbane highlighted his poor disposal/decision-making.

Definition of a Hack

A footballer who when he/she gets a game does not have the skill set to compete at the level. Most commonly the inability to compete at the level consists of an inability to make decisions in the time provided, an inability to execute skills under the pressure applied, and/or an inability to compete 1 on 1 with direct opponents.

Newnes comfortably meets the definition.

Murph's pass was about a 1% chance of coming off. He chipped a slow, high kick towards Eddie, to the right of the goalsquare, leaving Eddie to contend with two opponents.

If we were serious about the game/result, Murph as a senior player is taking the set shot from 35m out.

Newnes' performance/disposal was worse than his career average. But so was most of our team's.

Will defer judgement til he's settled in and played a couple of senior games.

 

[Macca43]

Murph's pass was about a 1% chance of coming off. He chipped a slow, high kick towards Eddie, to the right of the goalsquare, leaving Eddie to contend with two opponents.

If we were serious about the game/result, Murph as a senior player is taking the set shot from 35m out.

Newnes' performance/disposal was worse than his career average. But so was most of our team's.

Will defer judgement til he's settled in and played a couple of senior games.

We deferred judgement until after he played a couple of senior games on Fasolo as well.

 

[JustaBattler]

I rewatched the game again and I think definitely Teague was takin the pizz in Q4. These are ( fwiw) my final thoughts

1. Dow actually showed a lot - if he improves his awareness with ball in hand he will be a gun - I reckon 1-2 years when he is bigger he will be.
2. Setterfield was very good defensively not so good with kicking - track watchers aren't wrong about him - yet.
3. Levi was really good much more mobile and I think will work well with Eddie - TDK is a real find / McGivern was better than people make out.
4. Newnes isn't as bad as people are making out
5. Cripps was playing an all over the park role - very mobile
6. Walsh was unbelievable
7. Docherty should take the kick outs - what a boot...
8. Kreuzer dominated for 3/4 and then said enufs enuf already ...
9. Martin is worth it - easy.

We are in pretty good shape - I reckon we are going to scare a lot of teams. ball movement only seen once or twice like that last year- this year we are going to be able to move it fast and I really like teh take the game on through the center options which were unleashed a lot.

 

[HARKER]

I rewatched the game again and I think definitely Teague was takin the pizz in Q4. These are ( fwiw) my final thoughts

1. Dow actually showed a lot - if he improves his awareness with ball in hand he will be a gun - I reckon 1-2 years when he is bigger he will be.
2. Setterfield was very good defensively not so good with kicking - track watchers aren't wrong about him - yet.
3. Levi was really good much more mobile and I think will work well with Eddie - TDK is a real find / McGivern was better than people make out.
4. Newnes isn't as bad as people are making out
5. Cripps was playing an all over the park role - very mobile
6. Walsh was unbelievable
7. Docherty should take the kick outs - what a boot...
8. Kreuzer dominated for 3/4 and then said enufs enuf already ...
9. Martin is worth it - easy.

We are in pretty good shape - I reckon we are going to scare a lot of teams. ball movement only seen once or twice like that last year- this year we are going to be able to move it fast and I really like teh take the game on through the center options which were unleashed a lot.

Jesus....How much did we win by again?

 

[happydude]

Jesus....How much did we win by again?

irrelevant, 'twas a practice match