Mattner Dropped

[TheLeftFist8]

He may be an attacking footballer, and if that's the case, he's not a very good one. Doesn't get nearly enough of the ball for mine.

He does have a penetrating kick WHEN he uses it, but more often than not he tucks the ball under arm and off he bolts and then puts himself in a panic and get's caught. He hasn't got the smarts to make decisions on the run - which is an unfortunate fault in someone who's strength is his run.

Unfortunately you have made some good points there IMO. He is a baffling player because he has such obvious strengths and weaknesses and it seems impossible to position him in a way to isolate one over the other.

I think we have rose-coloured glasses to a degree when looking at MM on the wing. Stats may prove me wrong but he wasn't a great possession winner (maybe not smart enough to get in right positions or win the ball in traffic, which is a big issue if rotations bring the wingmen into the centre for periods of the match). Also his goalkicking accuracy wasn't great (again stats may prove me wrong). On the flipside he often gained us good ground when he got the ball and applied tremendous defensive pace/pressure through the middle which we have sorely lacked this year.

So where to play him?

Not good enough on full-back line, we have better options off half-back given his clangers/decision-making in traffic back there, would be a pacy half-forward but innaccurate and lacks the smarts to get the ball up there (though that hasn't been tested).

Personally, i still reckon the wing is his go despite his limitations, and he is in our top 2 wingman still IMO, so despite the above I am still on the Marty for Wing bandwagon

 

[fightingdreamer88]

He may be an attacking footballer, and if that's the case, he's not a very good one. Doesn't get nearly enough of the ball for mine.

He does have a penetrating kick WHEN he uses it, but more often than not he tucks the ball under arm and off he bolts and then puts himself in a panic and get's caught. He hasn't got the smarts to make decisions on the run - which is an unfortunate fault in someone who's strength is his run.

Even on the wing he was getting shown up for his lack of brain. I'm that if/when he does play on the wing again you'll all jump on him for his usual errors.

 

[Stevie_Crow]

He does have a penetrating kick WHEN he uses it, but more often than not he tucks the ball under arm and off he bolts and then puts himself in a panic and get's caught. He hasn't got the smarts to make decisions on the run - which is an unfortunate fault in someone who's strength is his run.

What has me lost is that when he first settled in defence and did this, it was a great weapon and set up many of our attacks - then all of a suddon he always got caught after not making a decision/second guessing. Something that has always baffled me

 

[crowman_23]

For all the mistakes he makes we are sorely missing his run and drive on the wing. The mere fact that he did run and take people on and kick long, breaking the lines is something we are currently missing in the side. We are so stagnant going forward and when we try to move the ball quickly by playing on our handballs are always to a player in an even worse position.

I believe you take the good with the bad with Mattner. IMO has more positives on a wing than negative and really adds to the side. We need someone fast who will run and carry the ball and he is clearly the man on our list to do it. We now know for sure that he is not good enough to make it as a defender. So lets give up that experiment, put him back on a wing and let the bloke run and play his natural game again.

 

[jenny61_99]

What has me lost is that when he first settled in defence and did this, it was a great weapon and set up many of our attacks - then all of a suddon he always got caught after not making a decision/second guessing. Something that has always baffled me

Is it a lack of talk from his team mates?? Having said that, I am sure the noise level from a home crowd would let him know someone was approaching. IMO he thinks he is better than he is, takes players on and then panics when he can't think what to do next and bingo, he's caught.

 

[- PC -]

Is it a lack of talk from his team mates?? Having said that, I am sure the noise level from a home crowd would let him know someone was approaching. IMO he thinks he is better than he is, takes players on and then panics when he can't think what to do next and bingo, he's caught.

Not sure this is correct.

I think there are a lot of reasons , one being trying to make no mistakes. Another , which contributes to this is looking upfield and not seeing any ''open ''options.

In the era of non contested football, it seems , and Mattner is just one of many at the Crows , who with a differing changing forward line lacks confidence in those upfield and takes a bounce or turns back looking for someone else to give off to.

I think a valid point was made on here or on the gameday thread about the AFC developing players who dont have the balls to make a decision, yet it is at odds with NCs continued loyalty to players. Martin Mattner seems to be one of those players who doesnt want to make the pass that gets turned over

 

[jenny61_99]

Not sure this is correct.

I think there are a lot of reasons , one being trying to make no mistakes. Another , which contributes to this is looking upfield and not seeing any ''open ''options.

In the era of non contested football, it seems , and Mattner is just one of many at the Crows , who with a differing changing forward line lacks confidence in those upfield and takes a bounce or turns back looking for someone else to give off to.

I think a valid point was made on here or on the gameday thread about the AFC developing players who dont have the balls to make a decision, yet it is at odds with NCs continued loyalty to players. Martin Mattner seems to be one of those players who doesnt want to make the pass that gets turned over

And yet he turns it over constantly with his indecision. Mattner is as infuriating as Burton at times, but Burton makes up for it. Not sure Mattner does.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

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And yet he turns it over constantly with his indecision. Mattner is as infuriating as Burton at times, but Burton makes up for it. Not sure Mattner does.

He did when he was in AA form on a wing.

Many posters struggle to remember how good he was as the most recent memories are of Marty the average backman.

afc.com.au - I would love a reply as to why the club has persisted to not play Mattner in his best position.

 

[bobshoby]

I distinctly remember him bringing down judd from behind in one of our matches with the bloody eagles here at aami in the last few years and that was just awesome

For the love of god, why is he being played in the bloody backline? It just boggles the mind. If he gets delisted or something at the end of this year ahead of someone like Perrie it will be one of the biggest stuff-ups in the club's history.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

He did when he was in AA form on a wing.

Many posters struggle to remember how good he was as the most recent memories are of Marty the average backman.

afc.com.au - I would love a reply as to why the club has persisted to not play Mattner in his best position.

Maybe we could start a thread of questions, within reason, for afc.com.au.

I would like to know if the club thinks the handling of Bryce Campbell is a good way to develop youngsters.

 

[jenny61_99]

He did when he was in AA form on a wing.

Many posters struggle to remember how good he was as the most recent memories are of Marty the average backman.

afc.com.au - I would love a reply as to why the club has persisted to not play Mattner in his best position.

Has he ever received AA???

My recollection of him on the wing is that he never got enough of the ball; bad decision making and as a result, getting caught. He always showed glimpses of what we thought he'd be capable of, but honestly, I don't think he has ever lived up to expectations - wing or otherwise.

 

[Southerntakeover]

afc.com.au - I would love a reply as to why the club has persisted to not play Mattner in his best position.

Do you really think that the AFC owes you an explanation for the coaches decisions?

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Do you really think that the AFC owes you an explanation for the coaches decisions?

Thank god he is willing to ask the curly questions. Give me that over a bunch of YES men anyday. Too be honest, as far as tough questions that could be asked goes, I find Kanes question pretty low on the richter scale.

 

[bobshoby]

I for one would love to know, at the very least why they persisted with it when it was clearly not working. Of course they'll never tell us but it's still an interesting question. Are they trying to make him into a replacement for basset? Is it some sort of ironic punishment? God only knows why they've persisted with it for so long.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Thank god he is willing to ask the curly questions. Give me that over a bunch of YES men anyday. Too be honest, as far as tough questions that could be asked goes, I find Kanes question pretty low on the richter scale.

Yup, because the AFC is accountable to an internet forum.

If you think that people from the AFC are posting here to justify their selection policies to us mob, thats fine. I think its a bit unrealistic personally.

 

[King Elvis]

Has he ever received AA???

My recollection of him on the wing is that he never got enough of the ball; bad decision making and as a result, getting caught. He always showed glimpses of what we thought he'd be capable of, but honestly, I don't think he has ever lived up to expectations - wing or otherwise.

In 2005, Burton & Mattner were widely regarded as the best Wing pairing in the League.

 

[NikkiNoo]

If we return Mattner to the wing, then someone has to miss out on the midfield rotations. Our wingmen are played more as part of the extended centre field players.

If you put him back there then it means someone has to miss out on the midfield rotation through the wing. This would be more than likely to be one of younger players that the club brings through first on the wing before fully exposing them to the centre square. Plus he would also spend more time off the ground than he currently does as the running required has increased greatly over the last couple of years.

VB, Knights, Douglas were first placed on the wing before earning a part in the rotations through the middle. Nowadays you will find goodwin and edwards more than likely on the wings at centre bounces.

 

[jenny61_99]

In 2005, Burton & Mattner were widely regarded as the best Wing pairing in the League.

Did he win AA selection in 2005? I think people are perhaps remembering only his good points when he was on the wing (and yes there were a few) but glossing over his short-comings. IF he was the best wingman other than Burton in the team, and fulfilled all requirements, don't you honestly think he'd still be there? The fact that he isn't speaks volumes.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Did he win AA selection in 2005? I think people are perhaps remembering only his good points when he was on the wing (and yes there were a few) but glossing over his short-comings. IF he was the best wingman other than Burton in the team, and fulfilled all requirements, don't you honestly think he'd still be there? The fact that he isn't speaks volumes.

Oh maybe the bloke who won 2 premiership in Mick Malhouse might know a bit more about football than both you and me put together. He had stated a number of times that year that in his opnion Mattner and Burton are the best wing combinations in the league. He also went on to name them in his AA team in his Herald Sun article that year. It was an article on how players should be picked based on their positions and not have midfielder who never played as wingmen or HFF be named there in the AA team.

With all due respects, I think Mick Malthouse might know a bit more about whether or not Mattner was damaging than you or I or other on this board.

Mattner being moved from the wing might have a lot more to do with what Nikki is suggesting, rather than what you are suggesting.

 

[King Elvis]

Did he win AA selection in 2005? I think people are perhaps remembering only his good points when he was on the wing (and yes there were a few) but glossing over his short-comings. IF he was the best wingman other than Burton in the team, and fulfilled all requirements, don't you honestly think he'd still be there? The fact that he isn't speaks volumes.

And I think you're only remembering his bad points.

The fact that he isn't speaks volumes about what? That we're trying to turn him into something he isn't, and are too stubborn to concede it isnt' working?

Nikki - Mattner is still young; and you can't have it both ways. We're meant to still be a contender, so we haven't gone the full on youth path like some others - if we're a contender, you play your best players in their best positions.

The youngsters can still get a game, but put them on the back flank or something.

We miss his tackling through the middle a hell of a lot too.

 

[WheresGroomgone]

Has he ever received AA???

My recollection of him on the wing is that he never got enough of the ball; bad decision making and as a result, getting caught. He always showed glimpses of what we thought he'd be capable of, but honestly, I don't think he has ever lived up to expectations - wing or otherwise.

Woah you seem to be rather harsh in your criticsm of Mattner, on the wing he played some absolute belters...his long kicks either for goal or into the forward line killed some sides and rose our confidence levels, his chases and his bone crunching tackles were priceless. He has shown glimpses since being down back but nowhere near as damaging as he was, I think evidence of his value was his standing with opposition coaches, players and fans..where has it all gone?

 

[King Elvis]

Woah you seem to be rather harsh in your criticsm of Mattner, on the wing he played some absolute belters...his long kicks either for goal or into the forward line killed some sides and rose our confidence levels, his chases and his bone crunching tackles were priceless. He has shown glimpses since being down back but nowhere near as damaging as he was, I think evidence of his value was his standing with opposition coaches, players and fans..where has it all gone?

Back pocket.

 

[Crow-mo]

He may be an attacking footballer, and if that's the case, he's not a very good one. Doesn't get nearly enough of the ball for mine.

He does have a penetrating kick WHEN he uses it, but more often than not he tucks the ball under arm and off he bolts and then puts himself in a panic and get's caught. He hasn't got the smarts to make decisions on the run - which is an unfortunate fault in someone who's strength is his run.

is this what you really think, or are you paraphrasing off of what your 'insiders' have told you?

 

[Crow-mo]

Has he ever received AA???

My recollection of him on the wing is that he never got enough of the ball; bad decision making and as a result, getting caught. He always showed glimpses of what we thought he'd be capable of, but honestly, I don't think he has ever lived up to expectations - wing or otherwise.

a couple of days ago, that was other people recollection of him?

 

[jenny61_99]

Oh maybe the bloke who won 2 premiership in Mick Malhouse might know a bit more about football than both you and me put together. He had stated a number of times that year that in his opnion Mattner and Burton are the best wing combinations in the league. He also went on to name them in his AA team in his Herald Sun article that year. It was an article on how players should be picked based on their positions and not have midfielder who never played as wingmen or HFF be named there in the AA team.

With all due respects, I think Mick Malthouse might know a bit more about whether or not Mattner was damaging than you or I or other on this board.

Mattner being moved from the wing might have a lot more to do with what Nikki is suggesting, rather than what you are suggesting.

With all due respects, Mick Malthouse is a fruit loop!

Look, I am not doubting Mattner has a great ability. And perhaps I am forgetting his best in that position, but somewhere along the way he lost that form in that position - he started making bad decisions, stopped getting the ball as much and started getting caught when he did and perhaps as a consequence he was moved from there. Maybe Craig needed him to fulfill a position in defence OR maybe he lost confidence in his ability as a wing man? I honestly don't know, but maybe Craig's reluctance to play him on the wing tells us what we need to know?

And Crow-mo - it was I who said he never got enough of the ball. I am paraphrasing nobody.