McCain does massive U Turn on Iraq

[Qsaint]

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/15/mccain-troops-may-be-home-by-2013/index.html?hp

Troops home by 2013, Interesting move in face of Obama's challenge

Bush has a wack at Obama over Israel as well

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-na-obama16-2008may16,0,1540775.story

 

[DaveW]

Well that's a short 100 years.

 

[DaveW]

Bush has a wack at Obama over Israel as well

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-na-obama16-2008may16,0,1540775.story

Joe Biden does a Tony Abbott.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/15/biden-calls-bush-comments-bulls-t/

Biden calls Bush comments 'bulls**t'
Posted: 04:07 PM ET

From CNN Congressional Producer Ted Barrett

(CNN) — The chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee Joe Biden, D-Delaware, called President Bush’s comments accusing Sen. Barack Obama and other Democrats of wanting to appease terrorists "bulls**t” and said if the president disagrees so strongly with the idea of talking to Iran then he needs to fire his secretaries of State and Defense, both of whom Biden said have pushed to sit down with the Iranians.

“This is bullshit. This is malarkey. This is outrageous. Outrageous for the president of the United States to go to a foreign country, sit in the Knesset…and make this kind of ridiculous statement,” Biden said angrily in a brief interview just off the Senate floor.

“He’s the guy who’s weakened us. He’s the guy that’s increased the number of terrorists in the world. His policies have produced this vulnerability the United States has. His intelligence community pointed that out not me. The NIE has pointed that out and what are you talking about, is he going to fire Condi Rice? Condi Rice has talked about the need to sit down. So his first two appeasers are Rice and Gates. I hope he comes home and does something.”

He quoted Gates saying Wednesday that we “need to figure out a way to develop some leverage and then sit down and talk with them.”

 

[GuruJane]

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/15/mccain-troops-may-be-home-by-2013/index.html?hp

Troops home by 2013, Interesting move in face of Obama's challenge

Bush has a wack at Obama over Israel as well

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-na-obama16-2008may16,0,1540775.story

That's going to be McCain's signature speech of the campaign. It gells with the Iraqi security advisor's recent statement in Washington that the ISF will be ready to take over in 2012 and also with what is happening on the ground in Iraq, for eg the ISF has now taken over Basra, is defanging the Mahdis in Sadr City and has commenced a major operation to clear AlQI and the remainder of the insurgency out of Mosul.

Not a "massive U-turn" at all.

 

[Qsaint]

That's going to be McCain's signature speech of the campaign. It gells with the Iraqi security advisor's recent statement in Washington that the ISF will be ready to take over in 2012 and also with what is happening on the ground in Iraq, for eg the ISF has now taken over Basra, is defanging the Mahdis in Sadr City and has commenced a major operation to clear AlQI and the remainder of the insurgency out of Mosul.

Not a "massive U-turn" at all.

100 years = 5 McCain Years thats all you are going to hear

Its a massive flip flop

 

[DaveW]

Here's the ad:

[youtube]tB3BNgdfEkI[/youtube]

Says Time's Michael Scherer:

http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/05/rnc_joins_the_hopetalk_express.html

Has there ever before been a political ad that looks so much like the trailer for a science-fiction movie?

I half expected to see flying cars and a cameo from Judge Dredd.

 

[Qsaint]

Here's the ad:

[youtube]tB3BNgdfEkI[/youtube]

Says Time's Michael Scherer:

http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/05/rnc_joins_the_hopetalk_express.html

Has there ever before been a political ad that looks so much like the trailer for a science-fiction movie?

I half expected to see flying cars and a cameo from Judge Dredd.

I though it was an Arnie ad

Who would actually entertain the idea that energy independence can be restored by 2013

 

[GuruJane]

100 years = 5 McCain Years thats all you are going to hear

Its a massive flip flop

How can it be a flip flop when in the original McCain's "100 years" remark he made it clear he was not talking about 100 years of combat, but 100 years of US presence there, if necessary, a la South Korea?

Not surprisingly the Dems took the "100" out of context and claimed he was taling about 100 years of war.

But he wasn't and never was. So no flip flop, not even a minor one.

What is different is that this is the first time McCain has set a date, 2013, for combat troops to be out. This gells with the Maliki's govt statement in Washington earlier this year that the ISF will be ready to take over in 2012.
McCain knows what the situation on the ground is: the ISF has taken over Basra, is defanging the Mahdi Army in Sadr City and has just commenced a major operation to clear AlQI and the remainder of the insurgency out of Mosul. All of this should be out of the way long before October when the provincial elections will be held there, the start of the Sunnis coming into the political process in a substantial way. Furthermore the Iraqi govt is swimming in money, courtesy of the high oil prices.

So going into the gen election, McCain will be predicting victory in Iraq for the creation of a representative democracy there. It is likely the facts on the ground will support him. He will pitch a positive message. Obama and the Dems may continue to deride him for being a "pollyanna" as they did last year when he was in Baghdad. But the subsequent facts supported McCain then, and it is likely they will continue to do so.

It was a very interesting speech, in that McCain is pitching himself as the safe and experienced pair of hands to bring the war to a close. Even more interesting is that he appears to be framing himself as a one term president, to blunt the Dems "age" issue.

 

[Elle]

Joe Biden does a Tony Abbott.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/15/biden-calls-bush-comments-bulls-t/

Biden calls Bush comments 'bulls**t'
Posted: 04:07 PM ET

From CNN Congressional Producer Ted Barrett

(CNN) — The chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee Joe Biden, D-Delaware, called President Bush’s comments accusing Sen. Barack Obama and other Democrats of wanting to appease terrorists "bulls**t” and said if the president disagrees so strongly with the idea of talking to Iran then he needs to fire his secretaries of State and Defense, both of whom Biden said have pushed to sit down with the Iranians.

“This is bullshit. This is malarkey. This is outrageous. Outrageous for the president of the United States to go to a foreign country, sit in the Knesset…and make this kind of ridiculous statement,” Biden said angrily in a brief interview just off the Senate floor.

“He’s the guy who’s weakened us. He’s the guy that’s increased the number of terrorists in the world. His policies have produced this vulnerability the United States has. His intelligence community pointed that out not me. The NIE has pointed that out and what are you talking about, is he going to fire Condi Rice? Condi Rice has talked about the need to sit down. So his first two appeasers are Rice and Gates. I hope he comes home and does something.”

He quoted Gates saying Wednesday that we “need to figure out a way to develop some leverage and then sit down and talk with them.”

Biden's kicking serious ass. He's livid over this, and calling it what it is. Pure, unadulterated bullshit.

He was just on Hardball and The Situation Room, in damn fine form. No one attacks and defends quite like Biden.

I feel it's unlikely, but that's what I want. Although, I will be very happy if he's Sec of State, Sec Def, or remains Chairman of the SFRC.

 

[Juddism]

lol...Bush said repeatedly that by the time he leaves office there will be a two state solution in Israel & Palestine, that won't happen, now the french fried McCain reckons by 2013 the middle east will be stabilised?

how the ____ does he plan on doing that? launching another war? going in to Iran? I wonder what the first target of Hezbollah & Hamas would be if McCain launched an attack against Iran?

if the US haven't realised by now that middle east nations don't want what they have on offer then they never will...only way to stabilise that region is for the US to ____ off out altogether.

So going into the gen election, McCain will be predicting victory in Iraq for the creation of a representative democracy there. It is likely the facts on the ground will support him. He will pitch a positive message. Obama and the Dems may continue to deride him for being a "pollyanna" as they did last year when he was in Baghdad. But the subsequent facts supported McCain then, and it is likely they will continue to do so.

Iraq is a crime...you can't win a crime, you can only stop it...they can never get the upper hand in Iraq purely because Iran is the one calling the shots in that country.

 

[Qsaint]

What W said in the Kenneset

We have heard this foolish delusion before,'' the president told the parliament. "As Nazi tanks crossed into Poland in 1939, an American senator declared: 'Lord, if only I could have talked to Hitler, all of this might have been avoided.' We have an obligation to call this what it is - the false comfort of appeasement, which has been repeatedly discredited by history.''

That senator was William Borah, a Republican of Idaho.

Obama

The White House denied the comments directly targeted Obama, who has said he would be ready to hold direct talks with leaders of US foes including Iran and Syria, which the Bush administration has shunned.

But an angry Obama, who holds an overwhelming lead in his Democratic nominating contest against Hillary Clinton, swiftly hit back in a statement, as his campaign accused Bush of adopting "cowboy diplomacy."

"George Bush knows that I have never supported engagement with terrorists, and the president's extraordinary politicisation of foreign policy and the politics of fear do nothing to secure the American people or our stalwart ally Israel," Obama said.

"It is sad that President Bush would use a speech to the Knesset on the 60th anniversary of Israel's independence to launch a false political attack," he said.

"It is time to turn the page on eight years of policies that have strengthened Iran and failed to secure America or our ally Israel,"



"Instead of tough talk and no action, we need to do what Kennedy, Nixon and Reagan did and use all elements of American power - including tough, principled, and direct diplomacy -- to pressure countries like Iran and Syria."

Wonderfull retort bringing Reagan and Tricky Dicky into it. I am surprised the king of Realpolitic and inventor of detente didn't get a mention

Got to love the Tribunes Headline Obama to Bush: 'You talkin' to me?'

 

[GuruJane]

lol...Bush said repeatedly that by the time he leaves office there will be a two state solution in Israel & Palestine, that won't happen, now the french fried McCain reckons by 2013 the middle east will be stabilised?

how the ____ does he plan on doing that? launching another war? going in to Iran? I wonder what the first target of Hezbollah & Hamas would be if McCain launched an attack against Iran?

As to Iran, McCain projected in his speech that Russia and China would pressure Iran into abandoning nuclear weapons project. He made no threats to use military action himself.

Again, the Russia/China route is more than likely. China's brought NK into line. None of the big powers have any interest in seeing a nuclear armed Iran, followed by proliferation throughout the res of the ME.

if the US haven't realised by now that middle east nations don't want what they have on offer then they never will...only way to stabilise that region is for the US to ____ off out altogether.

Iraq is a crime...you can't win a crime, you can only stop it

If Obama pursues this line, then there will be a clear differentiation between him and McCain for the voters to choose between.

...they can never get the upper hand in Iraq purely because Iran is the one calling the shots in that country.

Much more complex than that, since the ISF and MNF have been pushing back against the Iranian sponsored "special groups" that had taken over the Mahdhi Army - with a great deal of success so far.

 

[GuruJane]

Wonderfull retort bringing Reagan and Tricky Dicky into it. I am surprised the king of Realpolitic and inventor of detente didn't get a mention

"Tough, principled, direct diplomacy"

Now Obama's sounding like Hillary Clinton and you are applauding him!

Hilarious.

 

[Qsaint]

"Tough, principled, direct diplomacy"

Now Obama's sounding like Hillary Clinton and you are applauding him!

Hilarious.

Which version of Hillary said that? The Obliterate the ME one?

 

[skipper kelly]

Whats going on Q. I never picked you as a cheerleader.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Joe Biden does a Tony Abbott.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/15/biden-calls-bush-comments-bulls-t/

Biden calls Bush comments 'bulls**t'
Posted: 04:07 PM ET

From CNN Congressional Producer Ted Barrett

(CNN) — The chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee Joe Biden, D-Delaware, called President Bush’s comments accusing Sen. Barack Obama and other Democrats of wanting to appease terrorists "bulls**t” and said if the president disagrees so strongly with the idea of talking to Iran then he needs to fire his secretaries of State and Defense, both of whom Biden said have pushed to sit down with the Iranians.

“This is bullshit. This is malarkey. This is outrageous. Outrageous for the president of the United States to go to a foreign country, sit in the Knesset…and make this kind of ridiculous statement,” Biden said angrily in a brief interview just off the Senate floor.

“He’s the guy who’s weakened us. He’s the guy that’s increased the number of terrorists in the world. His policies have produced this vulnerability the United States has. His intelligence community pointed that out not me. The NIE has pointed that out and what are you talking about, is he going to fire Condi Rice? Condi Rice has talked about the need to sit down. So his first two appeasers are Rice and Gates. I hope he comes home and does something.”

He quoted Gates saying Wednesday that we “need to figure out a way to develop some leverage and then sit down and talk with them.”

that's ____ing awesome!

 

[camsmith]

Are lefties still throwing that '100 years of war in Iraq' crap around? How sad.

Funny how Bush talks about apeasing terrorists without mentioning names and the usual suspects in the democratic party just assume that he's talking about them.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Are lefties still throwing that '100 years of war in Iraq' crap around? How sad.

Funny how Bush talks about apeasing terrorists without mentioning names and the usual suspects in the democratic party just assume that he's talking about them.

hilarious...

 

[GuruJane]

Are lefties still throwing that '100 years of war in Iraq' crap around? How sad.

Funny how Bush talks about apeasing terrorists without mentioning names and the usual suspects in the democratic party just assume that he's talking about them.

Watch for much more of Obama doing the my di*ck is as big as yours" routine now he's sewn up the nomination.

All of a sudden this idea of "no preconditions" has gone out the window!

 

[GuruJane]

Which version of Hillary said that? The Obliterate the ME one?

The version who talked about "coercive diplomacy" when Obama was talking about "talks without pre-conditions".

What an idiotic thing to do for Obama to claim Bush was talking about him. Reminder to voters of the question marks he's carrying. Why didn't O just say "I agree with the president?"

 

[Qsaint]

Whats going on Q. I never picked you as a cheerleader.

Mostly based on the fact Hillary would be a disaster. McCain's not a bad choice either

 

[GuruJane]

Mostly based on the fact Hillary would be a disaster. McCain's not a bad choice either

Bush, speaking in Israel : "Masada shall never fall again ... Some seem to believe that we should negotiate with the terrorists and radicals, as if some ingenious argument will persuade them they have been wrong all along. We have heard this foolish delusion before. As Nazi tanks crossed into Poland in 1939, an American senator declared: "Lord, if I could only have talked to Hitler, all this might have been avoided." We have an obligation to call this what it is -- the false comfort of appeasement, which has been repeatedly discredited by history."

Obama, speaking on the campaign trail: "How dare you suggest this is me, me, me. You go defend me Joe."

What a thin skinned, immature whacker.

 

[camsmith]

hilarious...

It is. It shows how far the democrats have come. They linked a speech on appeasement that didn't mention any current politician names to themselves. They clearly see themselves as the party of surrender and appeasement.

Obama, speaking on the campaign trail: "How dare you suggest this is me, me, me. You go defend me Joe."

What a thin skinned, immature whacker.

Yeah, but dont forget your girl Hillary had a bit to say on it too.

Watch for much more of Obama doing the my di*ck is as big as yours" routine now he's sewn up the nomination.

All of a sudden this idea of "no preconditions" has gone out the window!

Indeed.

 

[JW Frogen]

Obama has a very strong scent of wall-flower about him.

If elected he will not only be America’s first black president (mail all charges of racism to my publicist, satan@yahoo.hell.com.PC) he will also be America’s first metrosexual president.

I wonder if Al Qeada, Killer Kim Jung Il or the merry Mullahs of Iran will be won over by his forceful use of Laggerfeld?

 

[GuruJane]

It is. It shows how far the democrats have come. They linked a speech on appeasement that didn't mention any current politician names to themselves. They clearly see themselves as the party of surrender and appeasement.



Yeah, but dont forget your girl Hillary had a bit to say on it too.



Indeed.

Poor wickle diddums Obama. Dere, dere. QSaint still wuvs you.