Injury Medical Sub - the first integrity check

[LordLucifer]

The medical sub rule was a farce when it was introduced and it has remained so for the whole season.

It has been rorted to the max as well.

Just scrap the sub rule, if a player gets injured and is unable to continue in the match then so be it.

We have to stop all this mollycoddling and unnecessary meddling.

 

[The_Flying_Egg]

Went hunting for a cheap free in front of goal and hit man mountain Adams

Yes that's exactly what happened

 

[PowerBaz]

The medical sub rule was a farce when it was introduced and it has remained so for the whole season.

It has been rorted to the max as well.

Just scrap the sub rule, if a player gets injured and is unable to continue in the match then so be it.

We have to stop all this mollycoddling and unnecessary meddling.

Just have it as another player on the interchange full stop.

Players are pretty cooked these days.

 

[LordLucifer]

Just have it as another player on the interchange full stop.

Players are pretty cooked these days.

Are you advocating an increase in the number of interchange players or leaving it as is ??

 

[The_Flying_Egg]

I don’t think this is true.

Also, Weightman is a dangerous player and not a guy who would be tactically subbed at half time. I think this is all channel 7 spin and the Dogs won’t even be pushing for him to play next week.

Agreed, nothing to this. Plus the idea that Bevo might be cheating the rules to take Cody off at half time of 1 point game is ridiculous

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

I don’t see any way that Weightman could play next week without serious questions being raised.

The AFL has an in-game concussion protocol (to which others have alluded) which requires at least 20 minutes of time out of the game to be performed. Clubs will use the standardised ImPACT test +/- any additional measures of their own that they perceive to be necessary. When it comes to concussion, the stance is one of “guilty until proven innocent” - we never want to send a concussed player back into an environment with any risk of impact, let alone a significant risk such as football. So, with that being said, the process is as follows:

Suspected concussion > perform tests > no concussion identified > back onto the field

Or

Suspected concussion > perform tests > confirm concussion or unable to confirm lack of concussion > ruled out of game > subbed out of game


So the only time a player should be removed from the game, with the sub rule, is with a suspected or actual concussion.

Now this is where the AFL’s “12-day rule” comes in. There is the commonly held misconception that this is merely a mandated 12 day absence from games. The 12 day rule is actually based on the minimum amount of time required for set protocols to be performed for any concussed (or suspected concussed) player. This process cannot be expedited. Players may take longer than 12 days to prove fitness to play, but the minimum hurdles require the full 12 days.

Therefore, for any player to be subbed out of the game for a head knock, they must have ended the 20 minute in-game protocol period with sufficient suspicion of a concussion, or an actual concussion. Any player that meets this criteria is considered guilty until proven innocent, as far as the concussion diagnosis, and therefore must go through the full return to play criteria which requires the aforementioned minimum of 12 days.

So what does this mean?

This means the only way he plays is if the club directly violates the AFL’s post-match concussion protocol, and tries to clear him to play too early, or if he never had a concussion (or suspected concussion) in the first place. If it’s the former, then that’s a horrifying thought. If it’s the latter, then that would mean the club directly exploited the medical substitute rule against Brisbane, since this means he would have been substituted off despite passing the in-game concussion testing protocols.

Excellent explanation.

Essentially, if he plays they have tried to dodge the rule and subbed him out under another random injury and not concussion.

Which would be a clear violation of the rule.

 

[PowerBaz]

Are you advocating an increase in the number of interchange players or leaving it as is ??

Just make the sub an additional player, maybe it’s either a proper injury replacement or otherwise can only come on after half time.

 

[Virgin Dog]

Just make the sub an additional player, maybe it’s either a proper injury replacement or otherwise can only come on after half time.

I genuinely don't understand the argument against a larger bench. Like I don't see what's wrong with clubs bringing a 10+ man bench. I honestly think it would add a new dimension to the game, allowing for adaptive/evolving game plans and reducing the focus on needing to recruit athletes over natural footballers.

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

Damien Barrett’s view on the situation:

He was removed from the game due to concussion concerns (whether he passed or not is irrelevant under the rules) as he was subbed out due to these concussion concerns.

Meaning he simply cannot play under the rules as he has to comply with the 12 day protocol.

Then followed that up by stating because Weightman seemed alert and fine after the match the Dogs should fight the AFL for his clearance too play.

Essentially completely disregard the rule and protocol in place.

This is a big integrity check for the AFL.

 

[Big Sauce 21]

Damien Barrett’s view on the situation:

He was removed from the game due to concussion concerns (whether he passed or not is irrelevant under the rules) as he was subbed out due to these concussion concerns.

Meaning he simply cannot play under the rules as he has to comply with the 12 day protocol.

Then followed that up by stating because Weightman seemed alert and fine after the match the Dogs should fight the AFL for his clearance too play.

Essentially completely disregard the rule and protocol in place.

This is a big integrity check for the AFL.

So he was never injured ? JJ comes on kicks 7 points. Tops of a great night of corruption.

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

So he was never injured ? JJ comes on kicks 7 points. Tops of a great night of corruption.

And that there is my second point I made.

If he’s not concussed or going through the concussion protocol, he’s not injured and not eligible to be subbed out.

Which one was it? Concussed or an incorrect use of the rule?

 

[Big Sauce 21]

And that there is my second point I made.

If he’s not concussed or going through the concussion protocol, he’s not injured and not eligible to be subbed out.

Which one was it? Concussed or an incorrect use of the rule?

Concussed from attempting to get a free kick in front of goal mate. Wont play against your mob next week.

 

[The wily weagle]

The devil will be in the details, it will be all about the wording:

"Weightman left the ground due to a head knock. He was subbed out as a precautionary measure due to suspicion of a very mild concussion like presentation, but further medical and neurological analysis have since ruled out the initial differential diagnosis and has been ruled fit to play this week"

Guaranteed. Any good doctor will word the medical report something like that and he will play. That way, the club doctor covers his ass and that of the AFL, whilst it simultaneously means that Beveridge can select him. Win/win for everyone. Except maybe Port Adelaide

 

[estibador]

Plus the idea that Bevo might be cheating the rules to take Cody off at half time of 1 point game is ridiculous

I don't think anyone is suggesting that. The issue is possible cheating of the rules to now get him eligible to play the prelim.

 

[00Stinger]

Yet I'm sure it was OK to pull Fantasia as a precautionary thing last week when he didn't have a match ending injury

The sub rule is a joke

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

 

[thedank]

Weightman would've received a free and 50m for that if it happened last week

Big test for the AFL now, they had their chance at the start of the year to ensure any player subbed for ANY reason during a game is ineligible to play next week, instead they've opened it up to interpretation and manipulation. Big week coming up

 

[OnlyPowerForever]

And that there is my second point I made.

If he’s not concussed or going through the concussion protocol, he’s not injured and not eligible to be subbed out.

Which one was it? Concussed or an incorrect use of the rule?

Firstly, I hope he's ok, not delayed symptoms.

If he is ok, it will be argued as "a sore head", not a concussion.
Like the difference between a "stinger" and a "corkie".
I'd assume that a concussion test was undertaken on the bench, and he passed. And rather than the mandatory 20-min wait, they decided 2 quarters of JJ was worth more than 1 qtr of Weightman.

No need to get worked up about it. You know the Bulldogs and AFL will find any reason to let him play.
And if it were Port Adelaide, and the player was fine, I'd probably expect they'd do the same.

And even then, the suggestion has always been that players would take the ban to court if they had to miss a final for a "blanket 12-day discretionary precaution" rather than accurate medical advice that applies in every situation.

I don't want the Bulldogs to have any reason to complain they've been hard done by.
If we beat them, I want to do it fair-and-square, 23 v 26.

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

Yet I'm sure it was OK to pull Fantasia as a precautionary thing last week when he didn't have a match ending injury

The sub rule is a joke

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

The difference here is that the sub was due too a head knock which brings into play the mandated concussion protocol which other injuries do not apply too.

I don’t think there has been a single player all year that was subbed out after a head knock that has then been subsequently cleared to play before those 12 days.

Players who twist an ankle/knee etc and are removed then can access physios, medical care etc to speed up their recovery, however with concussion that is not an option.

 

[LoungeLizard]

AFL chief McLachlan green lights medical subs to play the following week

AFL boss Gillon McLachlan adds fuel to the debate over the controversial medical sub rule, acknowledging that people will "look to work around it".

www.abc.net.au

 

[Cotchins Hair Piece]

Freekickbulldogs

 

[Rusty Brookes]

I can tell you when this comes to a head. What happens in the GF if a team has the game in the bag and haven't used the medical sub? It would be the most hollow of feelings to technically be part of the team but not actually get on the ground.

At least with the old sub rule, everyone got a run on the ground. I think back to the Hawthorn three-peat. Jonathan Simpkin

Jonathan Simpkin

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37

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1.3

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8.8

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6.0

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2.8

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, Taylor Duryea

15

Taylor Duryea

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Def

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16.0

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10.7

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5.3

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No current season stats available

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16.0

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9.6

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6.4

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4.6

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1.8

4star

and Matt Suckling all contributed something to the win so they got their medals knowing they were legitimately part of the win.

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

I'd assume that a concussion test was undertaken on the bench, and he passed. And rather than the mandatory 20-min wait, they decided 2 quarters of JJ was worth more than 1 qtr of Weightman.

This part is key and I think ultimately ties their hands.

He took the hit before half time. The decision to remove him from the game occurred during the half time break, which would have been over the 20 minute assessment period.

Meaning, after the assessment period he was deemed concussed or unable to return to play.

If that was the assessment made by their medical team, they can’t reverse that now.

Timeline: Gets the knock - waits through the assessment period over half time - declared unable to return - only outcome is that he must have a concussion (no matter how mild).

It is not like he went to the bench during play and was subbed out within a few minutes.

 

[Doggy Dan]

Next week there is a huge decision for the AFL which will demonstrate if it maintains the integrity of the competition and the rules or if they shift the goal posts being finals and to suit certain teams.

Weightman was subbed off and out of the match after a head knock.

The dogs are already claiming it was precautionary and not concussion, in the hope he would be able to play next week.

Now we all know under the new medical sub and concussion rule that any concussion, no matter how severe, is a 12 day break. Meaning he cannot play the prelim next week.

So either, he was subbed out with a concussion (even if slight) and he misses.

Or they determine he wasn’t concussed which then means a perfectly healthy player was subbed out of the game for a fresh player. If he was not concussed and he was removed as a precaution, a precaution is not a reason for a medical substitution as they are saying at the time he is not injured. Meaning he cannot then be subbed out.

The AFL was very clear with the rules that they will come down hard on teams trying to circumvent the rules.

He’s either concussed and out next week, or the Dogs broke the medical sub rule.

Particularly when Johanisson was the medical sub who came on and kicked a goal for the dogs in a final decided by 1 pt, if it was a precautionary sub for a player who by their own admission was not injured, that’s a massive integrity issue.

This decision alone will either support the rule or remove any credibility the rule has.

Literally last game Port played they exploited the rule with Fantasia. Port fans making excuses very, very early. Obviously scared sh*fleas of the Red, White and Blue………I love it!

 

[philthy05]

Port have subbed out players that played the next week.

They had nothing to do with concussion protocol, which is the issue here.

As I’ve said my issue is that there is a 12 day concussion protocol but the wording of ‘head knock’ and if you can escape the protocol over wording is a concern.

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

They had nothing to do with concussion protocol, which is the issue here.

As I’ve said my issue is that there is a 12 day concussion protocol but the wording of ‘head knock’ and if you can escape the protocol over wording is a concern.

Just as you say, what does “head knock” actually mean from an injury perspective and if this gets exploited, all minor concussions or knocks can simply be brushed under the rug under this definition of a head knock.

“Cody Weightman was subbed off at half-time with what was officially called a "head knock" by the club.“

The official terminology of the injury is interesting, due to the fact that had the Bulldogs officially subbed out the dynamic forward with a concussion, he would automatically miss next week's match due to the AFL's current concussion protocols.”

'Ginger' Bontempelli under injury cloud for prelim

Skipper finishes semi-final in the trainers' hands

wwos.nine.com.au