Analysis Melbourne Storm & GWS

[srobbo]

Some extremly ignorant people posting here regarding the storm. The following they have from the average melburnian is underrated & I for one have far more interest in their prelim than the AFL GF. My footy club have a atleast 2-3 games we earmark each year that we attend.

The regard Craig Bellamy’s held within our coaching fraternity is phenomenal. He’s considered a patriarch of the Melbourne sporting coaching landscape who’s counsel is often sought from AFL land, including Clarko & bomber....two of our best coaches in the modern era.

The culture they’ve created is top shelf & is a testament to why they’re not only the envy of the NRL but why they’re always contending. Slater, Smith & Cronk have also been seen as a cross code reference point for a number of our players.

The storm are an institution in Melbourne, not just a rugby league club in the background of our sporting landscape.

 

[demondavey]

Some extremly ignorant people posting here regarding the storm. The following they have from the average melburnian is underrated & I for one have far more interest in their prelim than the AFL GF. My footy club have a atleast 2-3 games we earmark each year that we attend.

The regard Craig Bellamy’s held within our coaching fraternity is phenomenal. He’s considered a patriarch of the Melbourne sporting coaching landscape who’s counsel is often sought from AFL land, including Clarko & bomber....two of our best coaches in the modern era.

The culture they’ve created is top shelf & is a testament to why they’re not only the envy of the NRL but why they’re always contending. Slater, Smith & Cronk have also been seen as a cross code reference point for a number of our players.

The storm are an institution in Melbourne, not just a rugby league club in the background of our sporting landscape.

And what was the feeling like upon their inception in 1998?

 

[theyellowsash]

And what was the feeling like upon their inception in 1998?

the average NSW media person (let alone the frothing fans) has a genuine hate and disdain for the storm and would like nothing more than for them to be disbanded.

The dislike some in the AFL have for GC and gws cannot be compared.

 

[Colonial]

the average NSW media person (let alone the frothing fans) has a genuine hate and disdain for the storm and would like nothing more than for them to be disbanded.

The dislike some in the AFL have for GC and gws cannot be compared.

Sorry no. It's exactly the same.

 

[srobbo]

And what was the feeling like upon their inception in 1998?

Within melbourne, pretty enthusiastic from memory & given they were successful from the get go, it ensured an instant following. The sydney hatred was instant after we won a flag in only our 2nd year.

 

[Nugett]

The issue with GWS, and Goldcoast is that they were heavily manufactured for the AFL greed. While Tasmania was snubbed, despite the fact that they were the first of the three submissions at the time, in having the required sponsorship, the most support and membership.

By having both GWS and Gold Coast, both are non traditional states and areas, with very little support, hence the special rules to accomodate the start up of them. GWS in particular has benefitted from it. Where Gold Coast delisted, and got nothing, GWS traded out, and brought in more top 10 draft picks. Both clubs were able to get free agents, while their players were unattainable.

I do give GWS credit for its list management, however their success is contrived as the AFL need to justify that the millions they have spent is justified for their own ego’s.

If the AFL were truly about national expansion, then Tasmania and one of Gold Coast/GWS should have been the teams omitted, rather than the obvious cash grab, where they The had to compromise all the other clubs in order for one to be successful.

 

[BIRDBRAIN]

As a fellow Victorian I can't remember the last time I spoke to someone about V8 Supercars or Bathurst---- but I've got many friends who I speak about the Melbourne Storm with; even been to a few games.

How many people were at those games? They've got 20K to their home finals and I'd imagine that would include a fair travelling contingent of away fans. They seem to often draw 11-12k for their normal home games. That's GWS-esque levels of attendance, but I guess they are just carrying on the rugby league tradition of it being a non-attending, talk about it around the water-cooler, foxtel kind of sport.

 

[Senor M]

How many people were at those games? They've got 20K to their home finals and I'd imagine that would include a fair travelling contingent of away fans. They seem to often draw 11-12k for their normal home games. That's GWS-esque levels of attendance, but I guess they are just carrying on the rugby league tradition of it being a non-attending, talk about it around the water-cooler, foxtel kind of sport.

Storm averaged over 16k to H&A games at AAMI Park this season and over 20k to the two finals. Crowds aren't 'great' by AFL standards-- but they put on a good show at AAMI Park; I enjoy the experience watching the Storm @ AAMI over the experience of watching a non-Richmond game at the MCG or Marvel. Every seat in the house is good at AAMI; bars & food is easily accessible and they've seem to got the 'balance' right with the pre-game/half time entertainment compared to AFL games.

 

[Professor Knowall]

The issue with GWS, and Goldcoast is that they were heavily manufactured for the AFL greed. While Tasmania was snubbed, despite the fact that they were the first of the three submissions at the time, in having the required sponsorship, the most support and membership.

By having both GWS and Gold Coast, both are non traditional states and areas, with very little support, hence the special rules to accomodate the start up of them. GWS in particular has benefitted from it. Where Gold Coast delisted, and got nothing, GWS traded out, and brought in more top 10 draft picks. Both clubs were able to get free agents, while their players were unattainable.

I do give GWS credit for its list management, however their success is contrived as the AFL need to justify that the millions they have spent is justified for their own ego’s.

If the AFL were truly about national expansion, then Tasmania and one of Gold Coast/GWS should have been the teams omitted, rather than the obvious cash grab, where they The had to compromise all the other clubs in order for one to be successful.

So you concede here that expanding to non-traditional but high population and growth areas was worth more money - or "greed" as you put it - than expanding to Tasmania first. And even if Tasmania was granted a license then it too would've required similar start-up concessions, as would any new club.

I note that GWS had no less than 4 delisted free agents in its winning PF side (including one from Collingwood), as well as a number of other modest draft selections. Their success is no more contrived than Gold Coasts failure (to date). However, that perception is certainly out there

 

[NoobPie]

Some extremly ignorant people posting here regarding the storm. The following they have from the average melburnian is underrated & I for one have far more interest in their prelim than the AFL GF. My footy club have a atleast 2-3 games we earmark each year that we attend.

The regard Craig Bellamy’s held within our coaching fraternity is phenomenal. He’s considered a patriarch of the Melbourne sporting coaching landscape who’s counsel is often sought from AFL land, including Clarko & bomber....two of our best coaches in the modern era.

The culture they’ve created is top shelf & is a testament to why they’re not only the envy of the NRL but why they’re always contending. Slater, Smith & Cronk have also been seen as a cross code reference point for a number of our players.

The storm are an institution in Melbourne, not just a rugby league club in the background of our sporting landscape.

The problem is the actual numbers don't back it up.

More people watched the giants final in Sydney than watched the storm in Melbourne on Saturday.

No doubt the storm have been a huge success but their numbers don't point to having "underated support".

I know alot of people that might claim support for the storm but then they'd watch Gold coast versus Melbourne if it was on at the same time as storm v roosters

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I couldn't give the slightest about rugby, I don't even acknowledge it's existence.

The fact that we're talking about rugby league, not rugby, sort of proves that!

 

[BIRDBRAIN]

The fact that we're talking about rugby league, not rugby, sort of proves that!

What's the difference?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

What's the difference?

"Rugby" is rugby union.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

The issue with GWS, and Goldcoast is that they were heavily manufactured for the AFL greed. While Tasmania was snubbed, despite the fact that they were the first of the three submissions at the time, in having the required sponsorship, the most support and membership.

Yeah how dare they try to create clubs that could eventually pay for themselves and grow the pie for everyone. Far better to prioritise a club that will get to North/St Kilda level at best, right? I do want to see a Tassie team, but let's be serious about their situation. And let's not pretend Victorian fans would like a Tassie team any better if they got generous concessions and had success. They'd be bellyaching just the same.

 

[Nugett]

So you concede here that expanding to non-traditional but high population and growth areas was worth more money - or "greed" as you put it - than expanding to Tasmania first. And even if Tasmania was granted a license then it too would've required similar start-up concessions, as would any new club.

I note that GWS had no less than 4 delisted free agents in its winning PF side (including one from Collingwood), as well as a number of other modest draft selections. Their success is no more contrived than Gold Coasts failure (to date). However, that perception is certainly out there

With a Tasmanian team, I could see similar start up concessions which were similar to that of Adelaide, Port and Freo, that tasmania would have gotten first access to Tasmanian born talent in the draft, rather than the high draft picks that were afforded to Gold Coast and GWS.

Expending into NSW and Queensland, which are the 1st and 3rd most populous states in the country, was about money, has it been good for the game? Has it expended it’s growth in them states? Has it created an awareness? Having lived (living) in both of these 2 states, it’s very hard to find AFL followers. Let alone a GWS or Suns supporter. So despite the popularity of the 2 cities, I can not see how it can be viewed as a success unless that success is manufactured. Ie set up to have an advantage to be successful.

Ignoring the Tasmanian market because it’s small was wrong at the time, and is still wrong now.

 

[BIRDBRAIN]

Yeah how dare they try to create clubs that could eventually pay for themselves and grow the pie for everyone. Far better to prioritise a club that will get to North/St Kilda level at best, right? I do want to see a Tassie team, but let's be serious about their situation. And let's not pretend Victorian fans would like a Tassie team any better if they got generous concessions and had success. They'd be bellyaching just the same.

So you're happy for your team to be a North/StKilda level at best but you'd begrudge a Tasmanian team from existing at that level?

 

[Marc_Remillard]

How did they?

The Giants got a set of picks in their first two years as start up. They didn't get anything "handed to them" after that. That's nonsense

Of course they didn't, apart from an academy in rich footy zones.

Yeah, absolutely nothing 'handed' to them at all

 

[Johnny Bananas]

With a Tasmanian team, I could see similar start up concessions which were similar to that of Adelaide, Port and Freo, that tasmania would have gotten first access to Tasmanian born talent in the draft, rather than the high draft picks that were afforded to Gold Coast and GWS.

Problem is Tasmania doesn't have a good state league to raid for talent, and they produce a lot less talent than WA or SA. It's not like Tassie is a powerhouse in the NAB Cup or dominates the Allies squad.

Expending into NSW and Queensland, which are the 1st and 3rd most populous states in the country, was about money, has it been good for the game? Has it expended it’s growth in them states?

Yes and yes.

Has it created an awareness? Having lived (living) in both of these 2 states, it’s very hard to find AFL followers. Let alone a GWS or Suns supporter. So despite the popularity of the 2 cities, I can not see how it can be viewed as a success unless that success is manufactured. Ie set up to have an advantage to be successful.

And you're measuring this after just ten years? In NRL territory? Swans weren't looking too great after ten years in Sydney either.

Ignoring the Tasmanian market because it’s small was wrong at the time, and is still wrong now.

Look, I'm all for including a team that will never be a financial success if it makes enough people happy, but that shouldn't come at the expense of the opportunity to make a real powerhouse and net contributor.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

So you're happy for your team to be a North/StKilda level at best but you'd begrudge a Tasmanian team from existing at that level?

I swear practically every post of yours is appropriate to your username. Do you even read the posts you're quoting? I am all for a Tasmanian team, I just think it deserved less priority than either Gold Coast or GWS. I begrudge them nothing, that's just garbage you made up.

Now, about your swipe at my team. My team's potential in the long term is much greater than North or St Kilda level. Brisbane has five times the population of Tasmania. AFL may not be the dominant sport here now, but it can become so with time and investment. And if it does, it can become as big as your team.

 

[BIRDBRAIN]

I swear practically every post of yours is appropriate to your username. Do you even read the posts you're quoting? I am all for a Tasmanian team, I just think it deserved less priority than either Gold Coast or GWS. I begrudge them nothing, that's just garbage you made up.

Now, about your swipe at my team. My team's potential in the long term is much greater than North or St Kilda level. Brisbane has five times the population of Tasmania. AFL may not be the dominant sport here now, but it can become so with time and investment. And if it does, it can become as big as your team.

But why? Why would AFL become the dominant sport in a rugby state? And why would do we want it to be? Are we AFL followers Jehovah's witnesses that have a god-driven directive to convert our neighbours to our religion, whether they want it or not? Honestly I can't see it, Brisbane had packed crowds for their 3-peat years, which quickly fell away as they fell down the ladder. They were a temporary fad, just like Melbourne Victory and A-league soccer. The same will happen with GWS except it won't be packed crowds falling away, it's pathetic crowds which will fall away into obscurity. And honestly, who cares? Why does the AFL, a non-profit organisation, need to dominate the hearts and minds and wallets of people in western Sydney? Why?

 

[Nugett]

Problem is Tasmania doesn't have a good state league to raid for talent, and they produce a lot less talent than WA or SA. It's not like Tassie is a powerhouse in the NAB Cup or dominates the Allies squad.


Yes and yes.


And you're measuring this after just ten years? In NRL territory? Swans weren't looking too great after ten years in Sydney either.


Look, I'm all for including a team that will never be a financial success if it makes enough people happy, but that shouldn't come at the expense of the opportunity to make a real powerhouse and net contributor.

Fair enough points.

With Tassie I’m going with nostalgia, where they have produced some of the best footballers. unfortunately the talent in their competition has died, to what it once was.

Yes I’m probably being a bit harsh and impatient with both Gold Coast and GWS, as it will take more time than 10 years.

GWS/ Gold Coast becoming self sufficient and club powerhouses, is yet to be seen. I think that it will take a very long time before that happens. If it happens at all. Clubs such as St.Kilda, Western Bulldogs, Port Adelaide and others, that have been around a lot longer still struggle at times.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

But why? Why would AFL become the dominant sport in a rugby state? And why would do we want it to be? Are we AFL followers Jehovah's witnesses that have a god-driven directive to convert our neighbours to our religion, whether they want it or not? Honestly I can't see it, Brisbane had packed crowds for their 3-peat years, which quickly fell away as they fell down the ladder. They were a temporary fad, just like Melbourne Victory and A-league soccer. The same will happen with GWS except it won't be packed crowds falling away, it's pathetic crowds which will fall away into obscurity. And honestly, who cares? Why does the AFL, a non-profit organisation, need to dominate the hearts and minds and wallets of people in western Sydney? Why?

Well clearly not you, but you're a Victorian who supports the Eagles, so you're doubly a navel gazer living in the bubble, with no idea what it is to be an AFL supporter in a non-traditional state. If you're so knowledgeable about the future, please do tell me who wins the 2048 US Presidential election, I'm very interested to know.

And if you're still asking why, you may as well ask why the AFL exists. Why did the VFL expand to Western Australia? Why did the WAFC purchase a licence? Why did the VFL break away from the VFA in the first place? The answer is the same in all cases and it's the same answer here too.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

It's all just different flavors of bum-sniffing to me mate but enjoy it.

Nah I don't care for either code either.

 

[BIRDBRAIN]

Well clearly not you, but you're a Victorian who supports the Eagles, so you're doubly a navel gazer living in the bubble, with no idea what it is to be an AFL supporter in a non-traditional state. If you're so knowledgeable about the future, please do tell me who wins the 2048 US Presidential election, I'm very interested to know.

You're exactly right, I've no idea what it is like to be an AFL supporter. I'm not an AFL supporter. To be an AFL supporter is to be a supporter of nepotism and greed. I just support the team I liked the colors of when I was 9 years old in 1987. I pay my money. Why would I want to see it misappropriated and pissed up the walls in western Sydney or Gold Coast where noone even wants it? Why should actual paying supporters subsidise this shit? Why do they have no choice?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

You're exactly right, I've no idea what it is like to be an AFL supporter. I'm not an AFL supporter.

Excellent, so yet again I'm reminded that your posts simply aren't worth reading. BIRDBRAIN indeed!

I pay my money. Why would I want to see it misappropriated and pi**ed up the walls in western Sydney or Gold Coast where noone even wants it? Why should actual paying supporters subsidise this s**t? Why do they have no choice?

Good, then don't. Or continue to pay your money and whinge incessantly. There's your choice.