Coach Michael Voss

[BlueTongue]

Agree and I believe the players have bought in, they just aren't executing. Harry's yips are the tip of a wider between the ears issue amongst the playing group.

The games lost have been on turnover and/or not finishing in front of goal off the back of poor execution and decision making.

Yep, all of the above, and add, ‘not honouring leads from players loose in F50 other than the twin towers’ and no mids willing to have a shot on goal.
we need someone who can consistently kick them on the run from outside 50m to clear the congestion and cause uncertainty and confusion in the OPs defence
Doc has done this on a couple of occasions but is not left to play mid

 

[gbatman]

I still think the most likely course of action is a revamping of the football department around Voss.

The rest of the season could get very ugly though, with each loss there is more chance of players becoming disenchanted and Voss losing the players.

100% This is the only way we fix all that is broken at Carlton.

We need to prove to the footy world that we are a club you can go to and coach and be supported, given every opportunity to succeeded, not be sacked the moment you have a down period. Currently no one really wants to work for us, this is why we always get the dregs. We need people to want to come work for us again. Sacking Voss only compounds this problem.

The players also need to have this out of their heads so this does not happen. That's what our playing list has done in the past, they know the coach is about to be sacked so they put the que back in the rack. Players need to know and feel that they will be going into the next season with the same coach regardless so this does not happen.

100% correct. We need to build a team around Voss and try and make a success out of him. It's what the good clubs do. It's what Collingwood have always done and have done under McCrae extremely well.

 

[Blue since 72]

Yep, all of the above, and add, ‘not honouring leads from players loose in F50 other than the twin towers’ and no mids willing to have a shot on goal.
we need someone who can consistently kick them on the run from outside 50m to clear the congestion and cause uncertainty and confusion in the OPs defence
Doc has done this on a couple of occasions but is not left to play mid

Yep goals from the mids have disappeared this year but the bigger issue is as you say we're too focused on trying to get it to Charlie and Harry yet we're making it as hard as possible to do so.

And you can add to that in saying that the rest of the forward line on current form is dead average at best, no one is standing up as a small bar maybe Owies or at half forward to provide other choices.

It is one part I do put on Voss in that why isn't Kennedy resting forward, why isn't Cripps resting forward as options, worked well last year and why do our smalls almost never seem to be at our talls feet when the ball comes in, it's always the opposition half backs whisking the ball straight back out.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Yep goals from the mids have disappeared this year but the bigger issue is as you say we're too focused on trying to get it to Charlie and Harry yet we're making it as hard as possible to do so.

And you can add to that in saying that the rest of the forward line on current form is dead average at best, no one is standing up as a small bar maybe Owies or at half forward to provide other choices.

It is one part I do put on Voss in that why isn't Kennedy resting forward, why isn't Cripps resting forward as options, worked well last year and why do our smalls almost never seem to be at our talls feet when the ball comes in, it's always the opposition half backs whisking the ball straight back out.

I wonder if injuries to Hewett, as well as struggling with form (who was a vital cog to our engine room last) is part of the reason why Vossy hasn't done what you are suggesting so much this season (Cripps did spend time in the forward line against the Bulldogs)

We certainly need George to recapture his 2022 form ASAP, that would help us massively.

As for Harry and his goal kicking yips, he clearly is down on confidence/self-esteem, and dropping him to the VFL would be the worst thing Vossy could do (unless Harry asks for a spell himself)

I know a lot of posters here believe in Selection Integrity and dropping and promoting players on form in the AFL and VFL, but I think Harry is a unique case, and I don't believe he is going to get his mojo back in the VFL tbh.

We may have to play Harry in the ruck and down back for the next few weeks with our mounting injuries (hopefully Pitto won't be out for too long, HUN reporting 2 weeks)

Managing players esp those who are down on confidence is one of the most critical and important jobs a coach must do.

I have faith Vossy can get Harry back on track sooner rather than later.

 

[Juddernaut08]

The thing with Harry is - even if he struggles he's still far better than the rest of our other KPP options (Curnow aside).

You don't drop him unless he's objectively worse than alternatives.

 

[BrianSetzer]

The fact that they didn't run out against Richmond with murder in their eyes is damning - in hindsight the first quarter of that game told us exactly how this year would pan out

Absolutely. Remember leaving thinking nah, nothing has changed. You could just tell. I said to my mate, looks like the last 6 months have hurt us more than it hurt them. I was flat.

 

[bourbons]

His kicking in front of goals definitely doesn’t help but I reckon our crumbers at contests have been virtually non existent. It’s probably the biggest issue that almost no one seems to talk about. When was the last time we kicked to contests and our mids and forwards were at the fall of the ball consistently?

This, its insane. Not just in the forward line but all over the ground, its contested mark or the opposition spoil and mop up.

You watch other teams even the poor ones and they at least get crumbers to contests, they might not win many but they're at least near the ball.

 

[Blue since 72]

I wonder if injuries to Hewett, as well as struggling with form (who was a vital cog to our engine room last) is part of the reason why Vossy hasn't done what you are suggesting so much this season (Cripps did spend time in the forward line against the Bulldogs)

We certainly need George to recapture his 2022 form ASAP, that would help us massively.

As for Harry and his goal kicking yips, he clearly is down on confidence/self-esteem, and dropping him to the VFL would be the worst thing Vossy could do (unless Harry asks for a spell himself)

I know a lot of posters here believe in Selection Integrity and dropping and promoting players on form in the AFL and VFL, but I think Harry is a unique case, and I don't believe he is going to get his mojo back in the VFL tbh.

We may have to play Harry in the ruck and down back for the next few weeks with our mounting injuries (hopefully Pitto won't be out for too long, HUN reporting 2 weeks)

Managing players esp those who are down on confidence is one of the most critical and important jobs a coach must do.

I have faith Vossy can get Harry back on track sooner rather than later.

Yeah agree see no point in sending Harry to the VFL and we don't have a ready replacement anyway.

 

[BlueSuede]

100% This is the only way we fix all that is broken at Carlton.

We need to prove to the footy world that we are a club you can go to and coach and be supported, given every opportunity to succeeded, not be sacked the moment you have a down period. Currently no one really wants to work for us, this is why we always get the dregs. We need people to want to come work for us again. Sacking Voss only compounds this problem.

The players also need to have this out of their heads so this does not happen. That's what our playing list has done in the past, they know the coach is about to be sacked so they put the que back in the rack. Players need to know and feel that they will be going into the next season with the same coach regardless so this does not happen.

100% correct. We need to build a team around Voss and try and make a success out of him. It's what the good clubs do. It's what Collingwood have always done and have done under McCrae extremely well.

Yeah, I can see this happening. Some of the recent examples of teams sticking with a head coach and then getting success (Hardwick, Goodwin) have taken this approach.

I feel if we can do this right, it will be a sign the club is growing up. You know, like the club has been an adolescent who falls head-over-heels in love with a new coach, only to freak out and break up when things start to get difficult. I look forward to the day that the club can mature and actually make it through those rocky adjustments, so that the longer term relationship can reap benefits that are better than just mere infatuation with the next new thing.

 

[macky99]

100% This is the only way we fix all that is broken at Carlton.

We need to prove to the footy world that we are a club you can go to and coach and be supported, given every opportunity to succeeded, not be sacked the moment you have a down period. Currently no one really wants to work for us, this is why we always get the dregs. We need people to want to come work for us again. Sacking Voss only compounds this problem.

The players also need to have this out of their heads so this does not happen. That's what our playing list has done in the past, they know the coach is about to be sacked so they put the que back in the rack. Players need to know and feel that they will be going into the next season with the same coach regardless so this does not happen.

100% correct. We need to build a team around Voss and try and make a success out of him. It's what the good clubs do. It's what Collingwood have always done and have done under McCrae extremely well.

These are good points but Vossy is not a inexperienced coach he has had almost 6 years as a senior coach & approx 8 years as a assistant, he would have selected his team of assistants like most coaches.

Hopefully Voss does survive, l believe the ball is in his court to make some adjustments be less head strong, have a game plan that is going to be clear & concise & get everyone on the same page.

We are underperforming & improvement is absolutely necessary the remainder of the season.

 

[Arr0w]

These are good points but Vossy is not a inexperienced coach he has had almost 6 years as a senior coach & approx 8 years as a assistant, he would have selected his team of assistants like most coaches.

True, but selected the assistants that were available at that point in time. Only guessing, but think there will be some changes

Hopefully Voss does survive, l believe the ball is in his court to make some adjustments be less head strong, have a game plan that is going to be clear & concise & get everyone on the same page.

I hope he remains head string in his mantra, but continues to tweak

We are underperforming & improvement is absolutely necessary the remainder of the season.

Yeap

 

[Jeremias]

These are good points but Vossy is not a inexperienced coach he has had almost 6 years as a senior coach & approx 8 years as a assistant, he would have selected his team of assistants like most coaches.

Wasn't Voss appointed after many of the higher rated assistants had been contracted?

 

[Blue1980]

I think there is a tipping point for Voss and with every loss it’s going to get worse and worse.

I think if we lose our next 3, the Gold Coast game will be the end of him. That will be 7 losses in a row, 9 out of 10 and we will be 4-9-1 going into the bye. Voss would be hoping for half a dozen more injuries for some excuse to hold onto to try and keep his job.

I think most those supporting him now and preaching stability if what I think will happen comes to pass.

 

[thebluenewdeal]

I think there is a tipping point for Voss and with every loss it’s going to get worse and worse.

I think if we lose our next 3, the Gold Coast game will be the end of him. That will be 7 losses in a row, 9 out of 10 and we will be 4-9-1 going into the bye. Voss would be hoping for half a dozen more injuries for some excuse to hold onto to try and keep his job.

I think most those supporting him now and preaching stability if what I think will happen comes to pass.

If any of that happens then no one will be surprised if he gets the flick. We know how the club operates.

 

[Jatz]

I think there is a tipping point for Voss and with every loss it’s going to get worse and worse.

I think if we lose our next 3, the Gold Coast game will be the end of him. That will be 7 losses in a row, 9 out of 10 and we will be 4-9-1 going into the bye. Voss would be hoping for half a dozen more injuries for some excuse to hold onto to try and keep his job.

I think most those supporting him now and preaching stability if what I think will happen comes to pass.

I truly don't think there's any point getting rid of him mid season but if we go on that run, his paper should absolutely be stamped for the end of the year.

It's not even just this season, it's from halfway through last season. That's a very extended run of poor form from a list that just should be playing better.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Yep, all of the above, and add, ‘not honouring leads from players loose in F50 other than the twin towers’ and no mids willing to have a shot on goal.
we need someone who can consistently kick them on the run from outside 50m to clear the congestion and cause uncertainty and confusion in the OPs defence
Doc has done this on a couple of occasions but is not left to play mid

In order to not honour leads a lead has to have been offered in the first place. Are any of our players ever actually leading? To me it looks like they all just bunch up on the wing and wave for a long kick down the line.

 

[bourbons]

In order to not honour leads a lead has to have been offered in the first place. Are any of our players ever actually leading? To me it looks like they all just bunch up on the wing and wave for a long kick down the line.

Yeah there does appear to be a real avoidance of unrewarded running, no one is creating space which leads to the trouble we have transitioning the ball from defence and the regular long kick downs the line as you've noted.

Whether's its lack of fitness or just mental unwillingness, I'm not sure.

 

[HarryFlashman]

I truly don't think there's any point getting rid of him mid season but if we go on that run, his paper should absolutely be stamped for the end of the year.

It's not even just this season, it's from halfway through last season. That's a very extended run of poor form from a list that just should be playing better.

The point of getting rid of him mid season is so that an assistant can take over & then change the team up & really examine roles & the list.

We learn nothing continuing with Voss doing the same things which have proven to be not good enough.

With someone else who is willing to adapt and change we can see how the team performs structured & playing differently eg Keddedy/ Crippa playing forward, running 2 different CB set ups eg. Dow/Cerra/Kennedy with Walsh running outside & Crippa forward - Crippa/Walsh/Dow with Cerra/Kennedy receiving outside etc there’s a heap of combos.

Look at Kemp doing more than just being a defender- bloke has a massive tank & his seriously talented.

Look at run and gun from the back line with Doc & Saad with Crippa/Kennedy siting at CHF - we have forgotten that Kennedy was bloody good sitting in the forward part of the centre square & taking marks (kept getting crunched but stuck the grabs) & would then distribute to leading forwards.

There’s a heap of different things and players to role thru to determine our strengths & what style we are best at.

Voss could still do this but he seems to be regressing even further back into the defensive mindset that has put him under the pump to begin with.

 

[Jatz]

The point of getting rid of him mid season is so that an assistant can take over & then change the team up & really examine roles & the list.

We learn nothing continuing with Voss doing the same things which have proven to be not good enough.

With someone else who is willing to adapt and change we can see how the team performs structured & playing differently eg Keddedy/ Crippa playing forward, running 2 different CB set ups eg. Dow/Cerra/Kennedy with Walsh running outside & Crippa forward - Crippa/Walsh/Dow with Cerra/Kennedy receiving outside etc there’s a heap of combos.

Look at Kemp doing more than just being a defender- bloke has a massive tank & his seriously talented.

Look at run and gun from the back line with Doc & Saad with Crippa/Kennedy siting at CHF - we have forgotten that Kennedy was bloody good sitting in the forward part of the centre square & taking marks (kept getting crunched but stuck the grabs) & would then distribute to leading forwards.

There’s a heap of different things and players to role thru to determine our strengths & what style we are best at.

Voss could still do this but he seems to be regressing even further back into the defensive mindset that has put him under the pump to begin with.

Which assistant do you think is capable of taking over? I've seen absolutely nothing from any of them to suggest they'd do anything at all better than what we're currently doing.

Getting an assistant in doesn't guarantee you get the changes you're looking for.

 

[HarryFlashman]

Which assistant do you think is capable of taking over? I've seen absolutely nothing from any of them to suggest they'd do anything at all better than what we're currently doing.

Getting an assistant in doesn't guarantee you get the changes you're looking for.

No it doesn’t- it’s not a guarantee.
However it is an opportunity for change & a different mandate on performance/outcome.

Doesn’t matter who steps up- not one of them is going to take the opportunity & go “let’s just keep doing what Voss was doing”.

 

[Jatz]

No it doesn’t- it’s not a guarantee.
However it is an opportunity for change & a different mandate on performance/outcome.

Doesn’t matter who steps up- not one of them is going to take the opportunity & go “let’s just keep doing what Voss was doing”.

I'd still rather see if Voss has the ability to turn it around rather than giving it to someone we won't promote anyway.

Let him coach for his career, see what changes he makes and if he can turn it around. If nothing has changed by the end of the season, you really have your answer.

 

[HarryFlashman]

I'd still rather see if Voss has the ability to turn it around rather than giving it to someone we won't promote anyway.

Let him coach for his career, see what changes he makes and if he can turn it around. If nothing has changed by the end of the season, you really have your answer.

He’s coaching for his career already & hasn’t been making changes.

The other advantage of sacking mid season is u can appoint a new coach who then has time to bring in assistants & plan for the draft/trade period.
Basically you’re allowing them more information on the players & more time to plan your changes & support staff

 

[Bluechip66]

Maybe the hierarchy say to Voss..u keep going but u need to change…or u won’t get the chance next year!

 

[macky99]

I'd still rather see if Voss has the ability to turn it around rather than giving it to someone we won't promote anyway.

Let him coach for his career, see what changes he makes and if he can turn it around. If nothing has changed by the end of the season, you really have your answer.

l agree with this approach, give him the opportunity of making changes the next few months & if we are still in the same position over the remainder of the season, then it would seem highly likely we would need to look at other options for the role.

 

[HarryFlashman]

T

Maybe the hierarchy say to Voss..u keep going but u need to change…or u won’t get the chance next year!

That would be fantastic, but Sayers with his infinite wisdom has already come out and told the world that “Vossy is our coach through to the end of 2023” that’s giving strength to what he’s currently doing - not suggesting change