Coach Michael Voss

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lioninthesand said:
Little insight. I know a player who played under him at the Lions.

Said he is a good guy who would jump in front of a bus for his players and genuinely wants to do well.

But.. he is slow to process things and not a dynamic thinker. He is the guy in the room who says ‘hang on, can we slow down, can you take me through that again’.

He can’t think quickly with a layered approach, which is vitally important for a modern coach.

Also he said he has to write everything down as things are dicusssed, to remember/process it.

He said early last year ‘he’ll never make it, he just isn’t a smart bloke, he’s a foot soldier not a general, he is the tradie not the site manager’.

Anyway, this chat from an experienced player just stuck with me.

Take from this what you will, this ex-player might be wrong, but this was his account of him as a leader even when he was going ok last year.
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We certainly didn’t hire Voss for his brain power particularly game plans. We were told he would lead our players and would lead a competent team of coaches - and we hired him for his leadership skills to bring everyone along on the journey and to bring out the best from everyone around him (as he arguably did as Captain of the Lions surrounded by great players who followed him into battle after battle and were victorious many times).

So what you’re saying isn’t surprising - I guess the question is does Voss have the ability to get the most out of his assistant coaches particularly the ones who are struggling right now. Also Voss did help many of our players have their career best seasons in 2022 but almost all of them are significantly down in 2023. He needs to get them back in form and it may need to be a mix of dropping some and backing others. But whatever he does he needs to bring in some changes soon and ensure he doesn’t lose the players.




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lioninthesand said:
Little insight. I know a player who played under him at the Lions.

Said he is a good guy who would jump in front of a bus for his players and genuinely wants to do well.

But.. he is slow to process things and not a dynamic thinker. He is the guy in the room who says ‘hang on, can we slow down, can you take me through that again’.

He can’t think quickly with a layered approach, which is vitally important for a modern coach.

Also he said he has to write everything down as things are dicusssed, to remember/process it.

He said early last year ‘he’ll never make it, he just isn’t a smart bloke, he’s a foot soldier not a general, he is the tradie not the site manager’.

Anyway, this chat from an experienced player just stuck with me.

Take from this what you will, this ex-player might be wrong, but this was his account of him as a leader even when he was going ok last year.
Click to expand...

It’s funny . As a musician I did the same. Wanted all the the chords and song structure and wrote it down. I spent more time looking at the A4 than focussing on the music. I eventually ditched it and played by ear. Best thing that ever happened to me musically. Just felt it.


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SBYM said:
No way Voss gets punted in 2023 whilst Sayers is there. The email this morning confirmed that, imo.

I reckon we could be in for a wild ride if Hardwick is available come Oct 2023 and our form continues to decline...

Never boring, is it?

Just ******* painful...
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It could be worse, you could be both a Carlton and Everton fan!:laughv1: Francis Lee Manchester City's chairman during the days when they used to be crap, came out with this hilarious quote before, if they were trophies handed out for eff ups this club would win plenty of them!

City back in those days were a pitiful shambles of a club, constantly hiring and firing managers. They even ended up in the third tier of english football at one stage.

Sadly that quote by Francis Lee is applicable to Carlton as well over the past twenty or so years, and us constantly hiring and firing coaches has a lot to do with it.

The list isn't perfect, it still has flaws that need to be rectified. I have my misgivings about Vossy but the media want us to throw him to the wolves. They revel in this club being a circus imo.

The board and football department, need to block out any outside noise coming from the media and supporters imo. I honestly think the best course of action is to back Vossy in, and hire the best quality people we can find to work around him and support him.

We're stuck in this vicious cycle of firing a coach, new coach comes in, performances and results improve before they drop off again, then the coach gets the arse and the whole process repeats itself. I think most of us are getting sick of watching the same movie over and over again at this stage.
 
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ArseClown said:
Convince Dimma to coach (when the guy is cooked). Sack him 2 years later because his heart isn't in it and the players have dropped their bottom lips again. Yeah that sounds like us.
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Do you really think they'll go this path again?

I wouldn't mind bringing him in as a senior assistant.... but if they sack Voss to bring him in as head coach they've got nfi and we're screwed for another 10 years... it'll be Malthouse all over again.
 
Blue_Fusion said:
Do you really think they'll go this path again?

I wouldn't mind bringing him in as a senior assistant.... but if they sack Voss to bring him in as head coach they've got nfi and we're screwed for another 10 years... it'll be Malthouse all over again.
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You wouldn't think so but we have a fairly lengthy body of evidence to suggest yes. Most likely it will happen when the next president takes over which might be sooner than expected given the murmurings.
 
Typical carlton...not going well so let's sack the coach. The common denominator as we stab coaches in the back is the playing group. They are mentally soft and conditional footballers. Hardwick would stand no chance with players who go to water and don't work hard enough. We have let the players off for too long. Can't remember the last time when our backs were up against the wall that we came out with ferocity. Soft as.
 
lioninthesand said:
Little insight. I know a player who played under him at the Lions.

Said he is a good guy who would jump in front of a bus for his players and genuinely wants to do well.

But.. he is slow to process things and not a dynamic thinker. He is the guy in the room who says ‘hang on, can we slow down, can you take me through that again’.

He can’t think quickly with a layered approach, which is vitally important for a modern coach.

Also he said he has to write everything down as things are dicusssed, to remember/process it.

He said early last year ‘he’ll never make it, he just isn’t a smart bloke, he’s a foot soldier not a general, he is the tradie not the site manager’.

Anyway, this chat from an experienced player just stuck with me.

Take from this what you will, this ex-player might be wrong, but this was his account of him as a leader even when he was going ok last year.
Click to expand...
This is 100% what we are seeing

I am a tradesman.
I can’t do what some of my workers do, there is some shit hot ones who work for me and want to make me money and make my company successful.

They are more skilled than me but I see the overall picture and direct how they do their jobs. I Dont always need them to push themselves, because the overall picture doesn’t rely upon them doing that.
I need to be business focused. It’s easier to get a few average skilled tradies to follow my plan, within their skill set, than get one awesome guy making up for those around him. If the one awesome guy covers, those around him never grow/try cause they are superfluous.

There is definitely time when that skilled guy is used to 100%, but it isn’t a everyday thing, let alone the rule.

I reckon that is what we have. Many relying on a few.
 
norway blue said:
It’s funny . As a musician I did the same. Wanted all the the chords and song structure and wrote it down. I spent more time looking at the A4 than focussing on the music. I eventually ditched it and played by ear. Best thing that ever happened to me musically. Just felt it.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
Click to expand...
But one has to learn it first. It takes time.
 
Curnowhan said:
If we had a dollar for every time a coach who "has the full support of the board" has been sacked....we'd have a lot of dollars
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He didnt say that though. It is all about the whole club taking ownership and shutting down the noise. Exactly what I suggested a few weeks back in here. Confident the lads will respond.
 

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Curnowhan said:
If we had a dollar for every time a coach who "has the full support of the board" has been sacked....we'd have a lot of dollars
Click to expand...

Curnowhan said:
If we had a dollar for every time a coach who "has the full support of the board" has been sacked....we'd have a lot of dollars
Click to expand...
"This club is done with finger pointing. Stability and unity is what gets you through tough patches" - L Sayers 22/5/23

You will be judged on the above Luke.
 
lioninthesand said:
Little insight. I know a player who played under him at the Lions.

Said he is a good guy who would jump in front of a bus for his players and genuinely wants to do well.

But.. he is slow to process things and not a dynamic thinker. He is the guy in the room who says ‘hang on, can we slow down, can you take me through that again’.

He can’t think quickly with a layered approach, which is vitally important for a modern coach.

Also he said he has to write everything down as things are dicusssed, to remember/process it.

He said early last year ‘he’ll never make it, he just isn’t a smart bloke, he’s a foot soldier not a general, he is the tradie not the site manager’.

Anyway, this chat from an experienced player just stuck with me.

Take from this what you will, this ex-player might be wrong, but this was his account of him as a leader even when he was going ok last year.
Click to expand...



Not ideal of course but can still work with the right assistants around. Cook has backed Voss in as having exceptional leadership skills - if we maximize that, garner player loyalty but fill the gaps with the right assistants it can still be a success. Parkin brought Brittain in as basally a match day coach. We've all heard the Rocket Eade/Minson audio where it seemed to me that basically Leon Cameron was coach.

We can't sack him - we have to see this contract out.
 
AndyLucimitis said:
Not ideal of course but can still work with the right assistants around. Cook has backed Voss in as having exceptional leadership skills - if we maximize that, garner player loyalty but fill the gaps with the right assistants it can still be a success. Parkin brought Brittain in as basally a match day coach. We've all heard the Rocket Eade/Minson audio where it seemed to me that basically Leon Cameron was coach.

We can't sack him - we have to see this contract out.
Click to expand...



Speaking of Leon Cameron - he is with the Swans academy and wanted to remain in Sydney but he'd be a great mentor/partner for Voss.
 
lioninthesand said:
Little insight. I know a player who played under him at the Lions.

Said he is a good guy who would jump in front of a bus for his players and genuinely wants to do well.

But.. he is slow to process things and not a dynamic thinker. He is the guy in the room who says ‘hang on, can we slow down, can you take me through that again’.

He can’t think quickly with a layered approach, which is vitally important for a modern coach.

Also he said he has to write everything down as things are dicusssed, to remember/process it.

He said early last year ‘he’ll never make it, he just isn’t a smart bloke, he’s a foot soldier not a general, he is the tradie not the site manager’.

Anyway, this chat from an experienced player just stuck with me.

Take from this what you will, this ex-player might be wrong, but this was his account of him as a leader even when he was going ok last year.
Click to expand...

Not surprising. I posted a few weeks ago that when he speaks it feels like a guy who isn't very smart trying to sound smart.

Not a deal breaker but far from ideal.
 
katmanblue said:
It's always the coach, right?

Playing group are blameless.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app
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Bit of both in this instance.

Coaches: WTF have they been working on the last 22-24 games? The layers? Pre-season? Why no tweaks have been noticed in game day to remedy clear deficiencies in the game style?

Players: Tired of never having played a final? Then collectively do something about it! Leadership should go to coaches and tell them to drop those not giving their all during game day. Then leadership should gather the whole list and have a proper heart to heart and figure some sh## out for once and for all and draw a line in the sand for once.
 

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Coach Michael Voss

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