Coach Michael Voss

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Accidental genius said:
Not looking like ‘the real boss’ atm

He needs to understand his limitations

Club needs to find some top notch assistants with tactical nous

I don’t buy the list isn’t good enough…there is plenty to work with
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Replace the perma-injured guys with capable AFL players available most of the time, and things begin to look different.

List has a lot to work with, but we have seen enough from the current group to see we max out probably with what we did last year. Doesn't mean we blow the list up, or do anything crazy. With Cook on board I am sure cooler heads will prevail.

In real terms, last year was the first year we had made finals for a decade, and we have been losers for so long we still haven't shaken that off. We hoped that we were the side of the 2nd half of last year not the side which lost 8 out of 9 middle of the year. Truth is, we are both.
 
Blue_Fusion said:
It's so weird... against the Cats he came out and said it was unacceptable... no he's proud? Turn it up...
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We were much better that Cats game than we were tonight. I think they get too bogged down with stats, and keeping the opposition to a lower score, even if that means we play turgid dreadful football, Voss is happier because the defensive stuff they focused on during the week was better.
 

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Heres a stat.

We are the only team, without a debutant this year. Where is the talent pushing through?

Hollands/ Fantasia are club debutants, but not true debutants.

Edit... Binns got what 15minutes, as a sub, then used as a small fwd, then never to be seen again!?

Startling fact.

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We've had one lucky season ands it's looking very likely two disasterous ones under Voss. With two coleman medallists a brownlow medallist and one of the best key defenders in the game. Something needs to change.
We're throwing away our opportunity when these players are at the peak of their power.
 
jpfalvo said:
Heres a stat.

We are the only team, without a debutant this year. Where is the talent pushing through?

Hollands/ Fantasia are club debutants, but not true debutants.

Edit... Binns got what 15minutes, as a sub, then used as a small fwd, then never to be seen again!?

Startling fact.

Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Our reserves and player development has been terrible for a long time. One of the worst in the comp.
 
jpfalvo said:
Heres a stat.

We are the only team, without a debutant this year. Where is the talent pushing through?

Hollands/ Fantasia are club debutants, but not true debutants.

Edit... Binns got what 15minutes, as a sub, then used as a small fwd, then never to be seen again!?

Startling fact.

Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Apparently, because we are/were in contention for a flag getting games into the inexperienced part of the list isn't done. At least not with Carlton anyway.
 
Doro said:
Apparently, because we are/were in contention for a flag getting games into the inexperienced part of the list isn't done. At least not with Carlton anyway.
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Clearly the other 17 teams are the anomaly in this space! unbelievable isnt it.

Add a bit of energy and excitement to break up the monotony of a long season

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I agree we cant keep sacking coaches per se.

People dont like Ross Lyon, but 1 thing Ross Lyon does is instill discipline and he is not afraid to DROP his STARS.

Eg.
Milne/Dal Santo.
Phillipou

Why cant we drop Cerra?

Hollands burning players.
O Hollands ineffective
Motlop missing from 15m
Curnow 1 effforts
Cerra inept
Boyd Cottrell all of a sudden untouchable

Scapegoat...

Kemp, Cowan, Kennedy, Hewitt.

Rinse repeat.

Its not a 1 game anomaly.

This is a definition of the Voss era.

Voss has no mettle to create the change conditions. He has accepted that these guys can get away with it.

Thats the culture he has instilled. These guys are mid to late 20s, not kids, old habits die hard....

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Accidental genius said:
Not looking like ‘the real boss’ atm

He needs to understand his limitations

Club needs to find some top notch assistants with tactical nous

I don’t buy the list isn’t good enough…there is plenty to work with
Click to expand...
Top energy talent is good but we do not bat deep enough.

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jpfalvo said:
I agree we cant keep sacking coaches per se.

People dont like Ross Lyon, but 1 thing Ross Lyon does is instill discipline and he is not afraid to DROP his STARS.

Eg.
Milne/Dal Santo.
Phillipou

Why cant we drop Cerra?

Hollands burning players.
O Hollands ineffective
Motlop missing from 15m
Curnow 1 effforts
Cerra inept
Boyd Cottrell all of a sudden untouchable

Scapegoat...

Kemp, Cowan, Kennedy, Hewitt.

Rinse repeat.

Its not a 1 game anomaly.

This is a definition of the Voss era.

Voss has no mettle to create the change conditions. He has accepted that these guys can get away with it.

Thats the culture he has instilled. These guys are mid to late 20s, not kids, old habits die hard....

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Click to expand...

I’d love us to make selection integrity relevant but we don’t have trust our young players to play them….

Every other club brings in skinny 18 year olds with some mongrel and some dash and give them a crack at the big time….we play them in the 2s, until they hit the glass ceiling and remain stagnant in their development and eventually decline in confidence and performance.

Or we recruit project players who have a 1 in 1000 chance of playing 1 senior game let alone 50

Or we draft kids with no tank or recovering from long term injuries which basically make them un-selectable for 18 months…..
 
jpfalvo said:
I agree we cant keep sacking coaches per se.

People dont like Ross Lyon, but 1 thing Ross Lyon does is instill discipline and he is not afraid to DROP his STARS.

Eg.
Milne/Dal Santo.
Phillipou

Why cant we drop Cerra?

Hollands burning players.
O Hollands ineffective
Motlop missing from 15m
Curnow 1 effforts
Cerra inept
Boyd Cottrell all of a sudden untouchable

Scapegoat...

Kemp, Cowan, Kennedy, Hewitt.

Rinse repeat.

Its not a 1 game anomaly.

This is a definition of the Voss era.

Voss has no mettle to create the change conditions. He has accepted that these guys can get away with it.

Thats the culture he has instilled. These guys are mid to late 20s, not kids, old habits die hard....

Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Sadly, that's what you get with Voss. It was the same at the Lions, but he has favourites who play 'his way' and others who get pushed to the margins. He's certainly a motivator for the stars and gets them ticking along quite well; with the role players there's an in group and an out group.

Lions ended up falling away pretty quickly as the stars got old and then ended with the 'Go Home 5' young players wanting out. I think we have a bit more insurance given that Curnow/McKay/Weitering are only 27 and have 3-4 more years ahead, but it is also noticeable that he's only been at the club two years and already we've had Dow, Stocker, Fisher and Setterfield move on to other clubs, and Newnes, Williamson and Plowman retire early.

The first 4 were relatively high draft picks we all probably thought would play a role in this little window of (by our terms) success, and the loss of all 7 is a big reason our depth is looking so shabby. All teams find a bit of a squeeze at the top end but of those, Fisher seems the only one who really is better off moving (in footy terms, anyway).

That said, Voss isn't alone in that, and Ross Lyon is just as bad (if not worse). They've already moved on a fair few (Billings/Gresham/Bytel/Coffield) and he's clearly got his favourites in a group that had a bounce-back year and has now fallen away. Malthouse was the all-timer and blew apart our list doing the same.

Voss was clearly the right choice at the time IMO and the man we needed to become a real football club again - even just getting to the prelim final last year was a massive accomplishment given where our club has been. In all the turmoil early last year, he had a pretty singular ability to ride through it and bring the players with him and deserves credit for that. Hopefully he can do the same in this rough patch and salvage something here too.

But if his resume ends up being 3 seasons, for two horrible collapses to miss finals, and one miraculous resurrection to reach a prelim final, along with a mini player exodus, I think the Crazy Vossy tag starts to look like a fit once again...

I do wonder whether he is the long-term guy. I think footy clubs are far too conservative with coaches nowadays and it can both be true that Voss was the right man to get us out of what was a decade long funk, and also true to say that he might not be the guy to help us transition from a Cripps/Docherty/Saad era to a Cerra/Walsh/De Koning? era (with the Curnow/McKay/Weitering trio obviously the hinge between). He's seen that sort of transition at Port, though, so maybe he has learnt from that and can be the man.
 

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jpfalvo said:
I agree we cant keep sacking coaches per se.

People dont like Ross Lyon, but 1 thing Ross Lyon does is instill discipline and he is not afraid to DROP his STARS.

Eg.
Milne/Dal Santo.
Phillipou

Why cant we drop Cerra?

Hollands burning players.
E Hollands ineffective
Motlop missing from 15m
Curnow 1 effforts
Cerra inept
Boyd Cottrell all of a sudden untouchable

Scapegoat...

Kemp, Cowan, Kennedy, Hewitt.

Rinse repeat.

Its not a 1 game anomaly.

This is a definition of the Voss era.

Voss has no mettle to create the change conditions. He has accepted that these guys can get away with it.

Thats the culture he has instilled. These guys are mid to late 20s, not kids, old habits die hard....

Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I think you are on the money. People bang on about the ‘game plan’ but I think largely we can score and score quickly when the game plan works.

My concern is that we don’t do the little things well and this is 100% on the coach.
  • Charlie Curnow cost us a chance at a final 2 years ago by not taking his full 30 seconds to shoot for goal. Still does it regularly.
  • watch the reply of DeGoeys goal in the first quarter. All came from E Hollands at the Collingwood kick in letting his man get behind him. Collingwood have done this kick in for years yet we just don’t seem ready for it.
  • yet we don’t seem to have a kick in strategy.
  • Sam Walsh calling for the ball yesterday when slow signal had gone up. Walsh calls for the ball every week in the wrong position but doing it in ‘slow play’ shows you he does what he wants.
  • watch DeGoeys second goal. He is on Cincotta at a stoppage. Cincotta follows ball and DeGoey runs forward on his own and gets goal. How does a role player like Cincotta make this decision? Because the coach allows him to.
  • E Hollands not hand balling to Curnow?
  • Curnows second efforts for months

These are all related to standards set by the coach. Good well coach teams don’t accept these things. We apparently do because we make the same basic (drill) mistakes weekly
 
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95blues said:
I see a list that was built and a coach that was hired in an effort to end years of being physically bullied by other teams.

Voss isnt without faults, all coaches have them. But we've been murdered by the rule/interpretation changes. The AFL wants fast up and back footy, they dont want contested football.
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Nail on head 👍
 
The reality is that we let the opposition set the tone almost every week.

It’s so frustrating to be beaten by the most obvious methods. Our glaring issues are picked apart and we are powerless to counter it.

I think that Voss is the right guy. You don’t need to be a master tactician to be successful, but the coaching group as a whole needs to be a lot more dynamic.
 
jpfalvo said:
Heres a stat.

We are the only team, without a debutant this year. Where is the talent pushing through?

Hollands/ Fantasia are club debutants, but not true debutants.

Edit... Binns got what 15minutes, as a sub, then used as a small fwd, then never to be seen again!?

Startling fact.

Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Three years under Voss, I believe O Hollands is the only draftee that has managed to develop into a guaranteed regular 1st 22 pick. Yes injuries play their part, as does the form of young players, however something isn't working be it recruitment or development.
 
Keeping injuries separate from the discussion, you have to question some of the decisions and approaches which have been controllable in the past five weeks and undoubtedly were deeply considered across the coaching and performance teams.

  • Dropping Hewett, whose form before and after his demotion has been good.
  • Playing Cerra in the seniors on return but at half back. Clearly concerns about his body influenced that decision.
  • Negating roles (Cincotta, Fogarty, Cottrell, Cerra, Fantasia) being prioritised
  • the two rucks/one ruck conundrum
  • The Marchbank/Kemp/Young second KPD choices.
  • Kennedy playing three different roles, sometimes in the same game
  • The midfield structure changing every week

Player management has played a big role. But I think we got ahead of ourselves looking at the ladder and our draw - identifying how tough it had been prior to the bye and thinking we had good players returning from injury - so we had some room to test different approaches.

Unfortunately we haven’t been good enough to adapt/cope with the churn which has subsequently infested the past five weeks - much of it is self-inflicted.
 
Stamos said:
We were executing up until 20 seconds to go in the first quarter against the Giants.

Got ahead of ourselves, started to get cute, went away from basics. Then the confidence and work rate dropped, players went into their shells and spiralled.
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You put our woes down to a simple mindset issue from 3-4 weeks ago??

These are professional footballers…not junior footy.
 

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Coach Michael Voss

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