Coach Michael Voss

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blue healer said:
Interesting that only four teams have had more five goal runs against than us and three are contesting the wooden spoon.

This was cited as one of the primary reasons to sack our previous coach, How quickly we forgive and forget.
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Sides have different gameplans, ours has been to tweaked to add a stronger turnover game, which history shows leads to greater success

This has also made us more vulnerable going the other way, defensively we have dropped off, but I believe it's an area we can rectify quickly

I have never called for a coach or an assistant to be sacked, ever, as no one here knows the inner workings of a coaching structure

Perhaps people that flip from everything is great to everything is shambolic and back again, based on fluctuations on phases of form, could answer yor question
 
Arr0w said:
Sides have different gameplans, ours has been to tweaked to add a stronger turnover game, which history shows leads to greater success

This has also made us more vulnerable going the other way, defensively we have dropped off, but I believe it's an area we can rectify quickly

I have never called for a coach or an assistant to be sacked, ever, as no one here knows the inner workings of a coaching structure

Perhaps people that flip from everything is great to everything is shambolic and back again, based on fluctuations on phases of form, could answer yor question
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I didn't ask a question, merely made a comment.

I don't know to what extent we can rectify the situation but I do firmly believe that, with our remaining draw, we will make the finals and if other results fall our way possibly the double chance. But I also think that blaming our present situation on the playing list, the assistant coaches, the recruiting manager and the umpires as many on here are doing is letting the senior coach off scot free. I'm not saying we should sack him but he should not be absolved from scrutiny. It is his game plan and it's his job to tailor it to the existing list.
 
blue healer said:
I didn't ask a question, merely made a comment.

I don't know to what extent we can rectify the situation but I do firmly believe that, with our remaining draw, we will make the finals and if other results fall our way possibly the double chance. But I also think that blaming our present situation on the playing list, the assistant coaches, the recruiting manager and the umpires as many on here are doing is letting the senior coach off scot free. I'm not saying we should sack him but he should not be absolved from scrutiny. It is his game plan and it's his job to tailor it to the existing list.
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It's always a tough call...do we double down on our list strengths (clearance gameplan), or try and introduce the turnover style which is the current 'meta'?

What I don't get is what are we doing differently now compared to when we smashed Geelong and Port? Is it as simple as bringing back underdone personnel?
 

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Juddernaut08 said:
It's always a tough call...do we double down on our list strengths (clearance gameplan), or try and introduce the turnover style which is the current 'meta'?

What I don't get is what are we doing differently now compared to when we smashed Geelong and Port? Is it as simple as bringing back underdone personnel?
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Momentum and sustained pressure.
 
Juddernaut08 said:
It's always a tough call...do we double down on our list strengths (clearance gameplan), or try and introduce the turnover style which is the current 'meta'?

What I don't get is what are we doing differently now compared to when we smashed Geelong and Port? Is it as simple as bringing back underdone personnel?
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TDK in beast mode is the difference. For a month he turned us from a mid table side to the best in the comp.
 
blue healer said:
I didn't ask a question, merely made a comment.

I don't know to what extent we can rectify the situation but I do firmly believe that, with our remaining draw, we will make the finals and if other results fall our way possibly the double chance. But I also think that blaming our present situation on the playing list, the assistant coaches, the recruiting manager and the umpires as many on here are doing is letting the senior coach off scot free. I'm not saying we should sack him but he should not be absolved from scrutiny. It is his game plan and it's his job to tailor it to the existing list.
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I've never blamed an umpiring decision or injuries as an excuse

Everyone plays a roll in success or failure, coaches and players, no one is immune to analysis and or criticism

1st half of last year, people wanted Voss and assistants sacked, and as tge tide changed, they still wanted heads to roll, until we secured finals, then not a word

1st half of this year similar, until this current poor patch. Same people are calling for heads to roll, plus, people that were once defending our structures, have flipped completely and have joined the conga line

Of course it's the prerogative of the individual, to melt or celebrate as they see fit

My question, how does a coach/s, go from not being able to coach, to then take this side to top 4, to then not being able to coach again?

More importantly, how would anyone here know, whether any of our coaches, can coach

Personally, I think we are on the right track, and I have never changed my view, whether our output is strong or in a poor patch, as there are other factors I analyze to form my views
 
Juddernaut08 said:
It's always a tough call...do we double down on our list strengths (clearance gameplan), or try and introduce the turnover style which is the current 'meta'?

What I don't get is what are we doing differently now compared to when we smashed Geelong and Port? Is it as simple as bringing back underdone personnel?
Click to expand...

Lat week against Collingwood we came out in Q1 with great pressure and intensity, recording 17 tackles, we just butchered our chances, then in Q2 we fell away, recording 7 tackles.

I struggle to understand how after only one quarter you can drop off so bad, 7 tackles in a quarter means 2/3 of the team didn’t lay a single tackle in a quarter of footy.

The drop off in intensity and pressure from quarter to quarter is a concern, this has happened since the GWS game.
 
DangerousD said:
Lat week against Collingwood we came out in Q1 with great pressure and intensity, recording 17 tackles, we just butchered our chances, then in Q2 we fell away, recording 7 tackles.

I struggle to understand how after only one quarter you can drop off so bad, 7 tackles in a quarter means 2/3 of the team didn’t lay a single tackle in a quarter of footy.

The drop off in intensity and pressure from quarter to quarter is a concern, this has happened since the GWS game.
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We're a reactive team at present and instinct and creativity gets thrown out the window and also increases confusion (running around like chickens). Once we got let loose in the last and were more proactive things began to click better.
 
Arr0w said:
I've never blamed an umpiring decision or injuries as an excuse

Everyone plays a roll in success or failure, coaches and players, no one is immune to analysis and or criticism

1st half of last year, people wanted Voss and assistants sacked, and as tge tide changed, they still wanted heads to roll, until we secured finals, then not a word

1st half of this year similar, until this current poor patch. Same people are calling for heads to roll, plus, people that were once defending our structures, have flipped completely and have joined the conga line

Of course it's the prerogative of the individual, to melt or celebrate as they see fit

My question, how does a coach/s, go from not being able to coach, to then take this side to top 4, to then not being able to coach again?

Morere importantly, how would anyone here know, whether any of our coaches, can coach

Personally, I think we are on the right track, and I have never changed my view, whether our output is strong or in a poor patch, as there are other factors I analyze to form my views
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Firstly, I've never thought that you are one to blame umpires or injuries for our results. I've also never seen you overly critical of players or the overall playing list other than to point to some obvious deficiencies in our list. But we all know those and also know (or should) that every team has deficiencies in their list. eg what would flea give up for one of Charlie or Harry on his list?

I have no answer to your question of why a coach goes from not being able to coach to being a good coach to not being able to coach again but sadly we've seen some highs and lows for whatever reason.

But to ask a rhetorical question - how does a list go from being rubbish to a top 4 (or even top 2) and then become rubbish again?

No doubt injuries play a role but it's interesting to note that when we won 11 of our last 13 last year we used 34 players, go figure that.

I suspect, and certainly hope, that we are in a form slump atm and as I said I will be surprised if we don't play finals and I think we make top 4 if, as I expect, we win all 3 games from here.

I guess the only point I'm trying to make is that if people insist on playing the blame game (I'm not BTW) then some of it should be directed towards the coach. There are many moving parts in a footy club and when the sh*t actually hits the fan they should all get equal scrutiny.
 
blue healer said:
Firstly, I've never thought that you are one to blame umpires or injuries for our results. I've also never seen you overly critical of players or the overall playing list other than to point to some obvious deficiencies in our list. But we all know those and also know (or should) that every team has deficiencies in their list. eg what would flea give up for one of Charlie or Harry on his list?

I have no answer to your question of why a coach goes from not being able to coach to being a good coach to not being able to coach again but sadly we've seen some highs and lows for whatever reason.

But to ask a rhetorical question - how does a list go from being rubbish to a top 4 (or even top 2) and then become rubbish again?

No doubt injuries play a role but it's interesting to note that when we won 11 of our last 13 last year we used 34 players, go figure that.

I suspect, and certainly hope, that we are in a form slump atm and as I said I will be surprised if we don't play finals and I think we make top 4 if, as I expect, we win all 3 games from here.

I guess the only point I'm trying to make is that if people insist on playing the blame game (I'm not BTW) then some of it should be directed towards the coach. There are many moving parts in a footy club and when the sh*t actually hits the fan they should all get equal scrutiny.
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I've never stated that the reason for strong or poor output is solely directed at one person or area

Coaches, players and even rehab staff are all responsible for week to week performances

List Management is responsible for short to medium term progress

Everyone plays a part
 
blue healer said:
I didn't ask a question, merely made a comment.

I don't know to what extent we can rectify the situation but I do firmly believe that, with our remaining draw, we will make the finals and if other results fall our way possibly the double chance. But I also think that blaming our present situation on the playing list, the assistant coaches, the recruiting manager and the umpires as many on here are doing is letting the senior coach off scot free. I'm not saying we should sack him but he should not be absolved from scrutiny. It is his game plan and it's his job to tailor it to the existing list.
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Problem is our head coach is a meat and potato type coach. Good enough to get the team thereabouts but our list talent is doing the heavy lifting rather than any strategy/tactics coming out of the coaches box.

I really doubt he can take us to the next level. It’s just more of the same. Not seeing any lateral thing.
 

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Arr0w said:
I've never stated that the reason for strong or poor output is solely directed at one person or area

Coaches, players and even rehab staff are all responsible for week to week performances

List Management is responsible for short to medium term progress

Everyone plays a part
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Thought I said that in my last sentence:)
 
Accidental genius said:
Problem is our head coach is a meat and potato type coach. Good enough to get the team thereabouts but our list talent is doing the heavy lifting rather than any strategy/tactics coming out of the coaches box.

I really doubt he can take us to the next level. It’s just more of the same. Not seeing any lateral thing.
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I've never seen a Carlton team in 20 years of close watching destroy a classy opposition like Carlton did to Geelong - only a few weeks ago.

In fact I've never seen another AFL team destroy Geelong as comprehensively as Carlton did. I've never seen Chriss Scott so emphatic about the pressure and execution that Carlton displayed in that game.

I don't think Voss has changed his game plan since. I do know the players available for selection have changed - a lot.
 
Accidental genius said:
Problem is our head coach is a meat and potato type coach. Good enough to get the team thereabouts but our list talent is doing the heavy lifting rather than any strategy/tactics coming out of the coaches box.

I really doubt he can take us to the next level. It’s just more of the same. Not seeing any lateral thing.
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I really struggle with this line of thinking. A coach who excels at all things is rare as hen's teeth. Mitchell perhaps, maybe Macrae.

Outside of the odd unicorn, give me a coach who can motivate, inspire confidence, demand standards, lead with integrity and delegate appropriately.

A couple other posters have pointed out how hard it is to judge a coach from the outside, and they're spot on. There are a few things that we can judge externally, and in my time there's only been 2 coaches I've been happy to see let go: Malthouse and Teague.

Malthouse because of his ego and the sense of disunity within the club, Teague because he crumbled under the pressure (evident from his press conferences), was publically critical of his captain and led a fractured playing group.

Voss has always conducted himself with utmost integrity. Never blamed the playing group, hasn't lost his cool in the media. The playing group are motivated and seem united. He's got the playing legacy and standing in the game to demand effort and intensity from his players. He's a good communicator and seems a fantastic people person.

If strategy is a problem, hire a nerd. If it's still a problem, hire 3 nerds. Don't ask a nerd without the requisite people skills to lead.
 
blues4flag said:
I really struggle with this line of thinking. A coach who excels at all things is rare as hen's teeth. Mitchell perhaps, maybe Macrae.

Outside of the odd unicorn, give me a coach who can motivate, inspire confidence, demand standards, lead with integrity and delegate appropriately.

A couple other posters have pointed out how hard it is to judge a coach from the outside, and they're spot on. There are a few things that we can judge externally, and in my time there's only been 2 coaches I've been happy to see let go: Malthouse and Teague.

Malthouse because of his ego and the sense of disunity within the club, Teague because he crumbled under the pressure (evident from his press conferences), was publically critical of his captain and led a fractured playing group.

Voss has always conducted himself with utmost integrity. Never blamed the playing group, hasn't lost his cool in the media. The playing group are motivated and seem united. He's got the playing legacy and standing in the game to demand effort and intensity from his players. He's a good communicator and seems a fantastic people person.

If strategy is a problem, hire a nerd. If it's still a problem, hire 3 nerds. Don't ask a nerd without the requisite people skills to lead.
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hire steve urkel
 
JustaBattler said:
I've never seen a Carlton team in 20 years of close watching destroy a classy opposition like Carlton did to Geelong - only a few weeks ago.

In fact I've never seen another AFL team destroy Geelong as comprehensively as Carlton did. I've never seen Chriss Scott so emphatic about the pressure and execution that Carlton displayed in that game.

I don't think Voss has changed his game plan since. I do know the players available for selection have changed - a lot.
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Player availability and depth are issues for us. That’s clear.

But when all players are available and we bring high pressure (like above 200) we can match it with any team. Our list at full flight is top notch and we’ve got some really special players. Tdk in the middle was providing a real point of difference.

but sometimes in games we are in situations where the momentum has swung against us for extended periods and we don’t try and change things up. We just keep doing the same thing even if it’s not effective.

i don’t see enough in game changes to indicate that the coaches are really thinking about what is happening.

It usually comes down to Crippa having to play out of his skin to make us competitive or swing momentum around.

We’ve got weapons in players like saad that I believe could make a diff.

Moving Williams up front was talked about OTC before we made such moves.

How many close games have we won? Do we have a plan for tight finishing games - particularly when we have a lead?
 
blues4flag said:
I really struggle with this line of thinking. A coach who excels at all things is rare as hen's teeth. Mitchell perhaps, maybe Macrae.

Outside of the odd unicorn, give me a coach who can motivate, inspire confidence, demand standards, lead with integrity and delegate appropriately.

A couple other posters have pointed out how hard it is to judge a coach from the outside, and they're spot on. There are a few things that we can judge externally, and in my time there's only been 2 coaches I've been happy to see let go: Malthouse and Teague.

Malthouse because of his ego and the sense of disunity within the club, Teague because he crumbled under the pressure (evident from his press conferences), was publically critical of his captain and led a fractured playing group.

Voss has always conducted himself with utmost integrity. Never blamed the playing group, hasn't lost his cool in the media. The playing group are motivated and seem united. He's got the playing legacy and standing in the game to demand effort and intensity from his players. He's a good communicator and seems a fantastic people person.

If strategy is a problem, hire a nerd. If it's still a problem, hire 3 nerds. Don't ask a nerd without the requisite people skills to lead.
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He’s a genuine down to earth person.

Is much loved as well. Has done a lot for the game playing at a high level.

Similar to Buckley …great player and well respected across afl.

I’d prefer a thinking coach. Doesn’t mean they have to be a nerd.

Clarko Hardwick fly aren’t nerdy coaches but have all pioneered new game plan/style to make a difference in the comp.
 
blues4flag said:
I really struggle with this line of thinking. A coach who excels at all things is rare as hen's teeth. Mitchell perhaps, maybe Macrae.

Outside of the odd unicorn, give me a coach who can motivate, inspire confidence, demand standards, lead with integrity and delegate appropriately.

A couple other posters have pointed out how hard it is to judge a coach from the outside, and they're spot on. There are a few things that we can judge externally, and in my time there's only been 2 coaches I've been happy to see let go: Malthouse and Teague.

Malthouse because of his ego and the sense of disunity within the club, Teague because he crumbled under the pressure (evident from his press conferences), was publically critical of his captain and led a fractured playing group.

Voss has always conducted himself with utmost integrity. Never blamed the playing group, hasn't lost his cool in the media. The playing group are motivated and seem united. He's got the playing legacy and standing in the game to demand effort and intensity from his players. He's a good communicator and seems a fantastic people person.

If strategy is a problem, hire a nerd. If it's still a problem, hire 3 nerds. Don't ask a nerd without the requisite people skills to lead.
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I think you are both highlighting how important the coaching “Group” is.
 
Accidental genius said:
Clarko Hardwick fly aren’t nerdy coaches but have all pioneered new game plan/style to make a difference in the comp
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This made me think about something i heard Voss at after our first season, he was asked if he was heading overseas in the off season to get any intel on other sporting organisations to further his education, he commented, not if i value my marriage.

Now its good that a coach wants a break and so does their family, i do know though that Clarkson and Hardwick both went to Europe and the US multiple off seasons, visiting various clubs and meeting various coaches to further develop themselves.

McRae has a coaching resume across different sports and went on a study trip to the US after last season too.

I have no idea how much it adds and i dont know if Voss has been on any, I haven’t read anything to suggest he has.

I just hope Voss is doing everything he can to further his development
 

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Coach Michael Voss

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