Coach Michael Voss

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We keep hearing how good our list is.

We keep saying why are we playing like this,shades of last year,again.

No one can work out why,everyone is waiting till we click again the problem is we’re running out of time both this year and on the premiership clock with our so called stacked list.

Yes I still have faith in both the players and the coach but if we can’t turn this around soon it’ll be another wasted season especially with the expectations we had on the group.


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Let's start adding some facts to the myriad of myths, conspiracies and opinions

"Voss is too rigid with selection, we should be rewarding VFL form, etc, etc"

We have used 35 players this year. Most sides in the 8 have used less players than sides outside the 8, with the exception of *, Hawks

Lions have used slight more, probably due to season ending injuries

Is it really that unusual, or too rigid?

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Peacock said:
Was there anyone in Australia watching the game that didn't know we were going to keep trying to force our way through the middle then bomb it into the forward line to what seemed like an army of Collingwood players? Not only do we make it hard for ourselves, we also make it so easy for our opponents. We were played off the park for three quarters playing our "A game".

We should be tossing Voss out at the end of the year, but instead we have another two years of this crap ahead of us. I genuinely fear if Hansen goes to West Coast what our game plan is going to look like. I don't think he is particularly special but he's all we've got. The club was meant to get reinforcements after last years mid season train wreck but all they came with was Jordan Russell?

The only hope Voss has is to give up 300-400k of his salary and we get more tactical help. If Hansen leaves we headhunt the best assistant coach available and make him the first $1 million assistant coach. Those in the industry would know the best ones, Josh Carr comes to mind but he's been promised the Port job.
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Why do you think Hansen is the brains behind the coaches box? I find it odd how people comment on the abilities of a coach, who we at least know a little about, let along an assistant coach who’s role and influence is even harder to define. It’s like the Johnny Barker hate club that was going on here for years, all because he looked a bit dopey when the screen panned to him. Someone said Tim Clark should be sacked the other day too, yet our superstar captain described him as one of the biggest influences on his career. No disrepeect to you but I’ll wait for the word of someone in the know.
 

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Opium said:
I wonder if this was strategic by Voss. He knows if we miss the finals the blow torch will be on him next season. His coaching career is on the line.
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Bit early. If we miss Top 4 by end of the year I hope their is a serious review of all departments and some changes
 
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Soapy V said:
Bit early. If we miss Top 4 by end of the year I hope their is a seriosu review of all departments and some changes
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I thought we had a review last year. I could be mistaken.

Injuries aside, my biggest concern is the inconsistently in our performances. How many times over the past 3 seasons have we conceded 5 goals plus and given up 5 goal plus leads? What has changed to address this? To me it's clear the game plan/style is not sustainable over 4 quarters. This ultimately lies with the coaching group.
 
Opium said:
I thought we had a review last year. I could be mistaken.

Injuries aside, my biggest concern is the inconsistently in our performances. How many times over the past 3 seasons have we conceded 5 goals plus and given up 5 goal plus leads? What has changed to address this? To me it's clear the game plan/style is not sustainable over 4 quarters. This ultimately lies with the coaching group.
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There's reviews every year. I think this year needs to be more consequencial and can we or should we, or do we need to bring in better people across Coaching, Development, High Performance and List Managment?

We are flying off field. Doing okay on field but IMO we need to go to another level. Stability is one thing BUT success should be our focus
 
Beyond Blue said:
Why do you think Hansen is the brains behind the coaches box? I find it odd how people comment on the abilities of a coach, who we at least know a little about, let along an assistant coach who’s role and influence is even harder to define. It’s like the Johnny Barker hate club that was going on here for years, all because he looked a bit dopey when the screen panned to him. Someone said Tim Clark should be sacked the other day too, yet our superstar captain described him as one of the biggest influences on his career. No disrepeect to you but I’ll wait for the word of someone in the know.
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Hansen is mostly repsonsible for match day and tactics.
 
Benaly28 said:
We keep hearing how good our list is.

We keep saying why are we playing like this,shades of last year,again.

No one can work out why,everyone is waiting till we click again the problem is we’re running out of time both this year and on the premiership clock with our so called stacked list.

Yes I still have faith in both the players and the coach but if we can’t turn this around soon it’ll be another wasted season especially with the expectations we had on the group.
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I don't think our list is that good at all. Has top end talent and falls away badly.

Injuries have exposed us. We have had to play players that aren't up to it or simply hasn't stood up.

How many players have really developed this year from okay or young players to genuine best 22? Cowan has shown a bit. Kemp has stagnated. Carroll has stagnated. Motlop has gone backwards. Ollie has gone backwards.

I am big believer in coaches make players better and get the best out of them. My question is have we picked the right players in the first players in the first place? I do not know the answer

IMO injuries have caused us to play players Voss and the MC don't want to.

We have had ONE debut this year (Binns as sub) and ONE last year (Ollie)

Every week it seems like we shuffle the same names in and out. Carroll Fantasia Cottrell Young Pittonet Cuningham Durdin Cincotta sometimes play an "Okay" game but none have ever stood up and made a difference
 
carlton_99 said:
I understand what you mean and in an ideal world every player in a team would be treated the exact same - but I just don't think that is the case in any sport let alone AFL. In my opinion it all comes down to risk for the coach - is it worth it to stick with that top 5 player and hope the form changes OR do you swap them out for a far inferior player on paper knowing that if it doesn't work you will be crucified by everyone.

It shouldn't be like this and maybe I just have a pessimistic world view but I think that is fairly realistic. Happy to be corrected if there has been a recent example of a top 5 or so player being dropped by a team in a poor patch of form.
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Ideally it wouldn’t need to get to a stage to drop a player who is well established in the team, i would hope that Cripps can or has sat down with Walsh and told him to think more in regards to when he calls for the ball or has had a chat to Charlie about second efforts or to any player about a hole range of issues.

The conversation this stemmed from was, why haven’t the coaches been able to get together and rectify our poor defensive efforts, especially at D50 stoppages? Someone pointed with Saads defending of Elliott that gave the Pies their goal at the start of Q4 as a reason as to why its not so much a coaching issue.

My response is its always a coaching issue, as it’s their job to make sure standards are met.
 
DangerousD said:
Oh yeah i saw it and its bad, its pretty late now but if this is the reason we are so bad, then the coaching group have allowed these behaviours to go un punished all year, when they re view the game and i mean every game and these things come up, are the players slapped across the head with it?

Seperate to this, is Cripps calling out Charlie in front of the group for his half arsed chases or tackling attempts?

Even when we see vision like you pointed out, the fact we are where we are defensively is a long term trend, which has been allowed to happen by the coaching group.

If Saad has done that repeatedly, drop hi, make a statement.

If Charlie is seen in the reviews repeatedly not putting in enough effort, drop him.

If Walsh keeps calling for the ball in dumb spots (he does) drop him.

It might be a bit late but i wonder if these issues are just a result of standards not being enforced.
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Absolutely…you’ve raised really hot points here. Imo these are being skipped over during reviews.

It’s a difficult thing to do for coaches …to give support love and discipline but it’s one of those things that separate the wheat from the chaff.

Players have to look up to you but also need to be mindful that you won’t take half arse efforts.
 
Opium said:
I thought we had a review last year. I could be mistaken.

Injuries aside, my biggest concern is the inconsistently in our performances. How many times over the past 3 seasons have we conceded 5 goals plus and given up 5 goal plus leads? What has changed to address this? To me it's clear the game plan/style is not sustainable over 4 quarters. This ultimately lies with the coaching group.
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I'd be interested to know how many times it occurs for us compared with other teams across the league, from what I've seen it is common amongst most teams.

Every coach I've watched speaks of momentum switches in games and how you have to make the most of it when you have it going your way. There is an inevitability that it will turn.

Footy is still a pretty simple game, kick 1.8 in a quarter where you are dominating and you will struggle once things turn.
 
Nobody is dropping players such as Curnow and Walsh, we have nobody to replace them in their roles. It would be suicide. I'm not sure that either of them are players to make 'half arsed efforts', there is a world where players can simply be out of form or low on confidence.
 

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carlton_99 said:
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So, 9 teams have gone on a run of 5+ consecutive goals more than having 5+ consecutive scored against them. It makes sense that we are amongst those as are the other 7 teams in the eight and the Hawks.

We are about middle of the road on this but it is very, very common as I suspected.
 
I think the big thing for us to become a genuine contender is to close the gap between our best and worst in game. Even if we can improve our worst by 10% we become a dangerous team since we usually only lose by small margins. I don’t think there’s a team in the competition who has such wild fluctuations as we do (I’m talking change in play style or mental attitude). Sure other teams also concede 5+ goal runs on etc. but it’s the way we play more so.

We get a lead and go conservative. We never put the foot down and destroy teams. We either have an opening quarter blitz or a 4th quarter surge. Through the middle of games we seem to play so conservatively. I think of all the top 8 teams we have the biggest scope for improvement for this very reason. What is heartening is that this team very rarely waves the white flag. There’s definitely a lot of heart in this group and so much room for improvement.
 
DangerousD said:
Every week we see in the media or I see it myself that we have a terrible points against tally, currently 13th in the league, what’s not as easy to see but gets brought up on the footy shows is that we are 18th for scores against from a D50 stoppage, we are 10 goals worse than the 17th ranked team.

Now if we are 13th overall for points against and 18th from points scored from a D50 stoppage, why is it so hard for the coaches to all get together and come up with a way to address this?

For all our complaints about our small forwards, our third tall forward options, our set ups at stoppages is our biggest concern and it has stuff all to do with who’s available.

Who’s area would D50 stoppage and midfield stoppage fall under? Get together and ask, what have we changed this year to cause a huge drop off?

This should be our focus the next few weeks.
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Don't be logical.
 
Benaly28 said:
We keep hearing how good our list is.

We keep saying why are we playing like this,shades of last year,again.

No one can work out why,everyone is waiting till we click again the problem is we’re running out of time both this year and on the premiership clock with our so called stacked list.

Yes I still have faith in both the players and the coach but if we can’t turn this around soon it’ll be another wasted season especially with the expectations we had on the group.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
Click to expand...
Pies list last year was not that crash hot, neither was their 2010 list. Richmond's wasn't the greatest premiership either and they 3-peated in 4 years. It's about coaching, confidence in coaching, injury luck (continuity of a core 16-18 playing every round together), and clicking at the right time and sustaining it.

We played better late last year and early this year when we were less reactive and instinctive at times. Voss just needs to let them be and do what they do best and that'd be the sign of a mature coach reading the moment and grasping the list. Scott came into Geelong in 2011 and said he did no coaching, the players were already atuned to what they were good at and worked on instinct, just did some mild tweaking.
 
DangerousD said:
Oh yeah i saw it and its bad, its pretty late now but if this is the reason we are so bad, then the coaching group have allowed these behaviours to go un punished all year, when they re view the game and i mean every game and these things come up, are the players slapped across the head with it?

Seperate to this, is Cripps calling out Charlie in front of the group for his half arsed chases or tackling attempts?

Even when we see vision like you pointed out, the fact we are where we are defensively is a long term trend, which has been allowed to happen by the coaching group.

If Saad has done that repeatedly, drop hi, make a statement.

If Charlie is seen in the reviews repeatedly not putting in enough effort, drop him.

If Walsh keeps calling for the ball in dumb spots (he does) drop him.

It might be a bit late but i wonder if these issues are just a result of standards not being enforced.
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I don’t think dropping players necessarily leads to a change in behaviour in most circumstances … however I do agree that a failure to call out poor performance can lead to embedded poor habits.

I love Saad - he’s an absolute gun - but the way he was exposed in that instance on Saturday night isn’t an isolated incident and you would find similar examples from his time at GC and *.

The review processes are deep and authentic - the video simply doesn’t lie. So I’m confident coaches are providing meaningful feedback.

But they can’t be out there on the field demanding adherence and pushing players through the fatigue and pain.

And if they identify players are not capable of doing that, then change is needed. It can come in the form of private and/or public feedback, additional training, new roles they ask of players before considering demotion - or worse in some cases - contract implications.
 
jj1978 said:
Pies list last year was not that crash hot, neither was their 2010 list. Richmond's wasn't the greatest premiership either and they 3-peated in 4 years. It's about coaching, confidence in coaching, injury luck (continuity of a core 16-18 playing every round together), and clicking at the right time and sustaining it.

We played better late last year and early this year when we were less reactive and instinctive at times. Voss just needs to let them be and do what they do best and that'd be the sign of a mature coach reading the moment and grasping the list. Scott came into Geelong in 2011 and said he did no coaching, the players were already atuned to what they were good at and worked on instinct, just did some mild tweaking.
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It’s all about innovation in coaching. What’s the next game style that’s gives you an edge? Are our coaches innovative ? Or are they playing catch up?
 
gab213 said:
So, 9 teams have gone on a run of 5+ consecutive goals more than having 5+ consecutive scored against them. It makes sense that we are amongst those as are the other 7 teams in the eight and the Hawks.

We are about middle of the road on this but it is very, very common as I suspected.
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Key is when and how

6-6-6 has made a massive difference to this stat
 
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Thing I noticed is we’re nowhere near as physical as we were a couple of months ago.

We beat GCS & we beat them up.

Cripps, who’s been outstanding, targeted Rowell & knocked him out of the game.

Since then, our guys in the middle have copped a ton of hits & they haven’t responded.

The game style is based on numbers & pressure.

We just don’t seem able to take the hits right now.

Just sayin’
 
Stig O'Hara said:
Thing I noticed is we’re nowhere near as physical as we were a couple of months ago.

We beat GCS & we beat them up.

Cripps, who’s been outstanding, targeted Rowell & knocked him out of the game.

Since then, our guys in the middle have copped a ton of hits & they haven’t responded.

The game style is based on numbers & pressure.

We just don’t seem able to take the hits right now.

Just sayin’
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Probably the downside of the style of game we play.

Even last season we had a huge down patch before going on a big run.

Is this game plan (and ultimately the way the list has been built) conducive to standing up for a season? You'd have to say, overwhelmingly no.

That may not be an issue if you time it right (last year) but is that really giving yourself the best opportunity to be successful?
 

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Coach Michael Voss

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