Coach Michael Voss

[BM123]

I remember all that, they did hold their nerve, however they had shown progression. 2016 was the first time they went backwards in his reign really.

Also we have a real life comparison, Bolton lasted 3.5 years, and was only moved on when we’d only won 4 of his last 43 games.

I personally wasn’t in favour of moving on Teague and just bolstering the assistants and footy dept.

I’m not advocating sacking Voss right this second. I would however if we keep playing this same turgid style for the remainder of the year, as it will probably land us 15th.

I however do see a world where we continue doing what we are doing, then basically revamp the whole footy dept at the end of the year and keep Voss.

If we don’t win at least 2 of our next 4, you will be hearing the words “football department review”.

Bolton was alright for his first season before he got buried by how poorly we'd managed the list. Collingwood seem to love him now just like Hawthorn did when he was with them for their dynasty. Teague getting elected then buried by the players went about as well as expected. He was also talking about how we needed to improve defensively for awhile but never happened with this playing group either....

Game plan needs to be adjusted I agree. Considering the players supposedly had a hand in developing our current one that they seem unwilling or incapable of executing I wouldn't blame Voss for excluding them.

However we'll still have a shell of a forward line, a midfield that had their greatest strength taken away by changes outside their control and a shaky back line. Above all we still lack leaders for a group that still goes missing badly when the opposition has momentum. Voss didn't install that shakiness in them because it's been a feature of the group for awhile now. He'll be the scape goat if he doesn't manage to coach it out them somehow.

Current game plan isn't making our players tackle so poorly and kick like crap. We've all seen plenty of players in worse sides show more than most of our seniors this year. I'd honestly be more focused on the game plan if they were playing for each other at least. The amount of hospital hand balling makes me feel like they have to resent each other though. Otherwise you wouldn't ask your mate to get crunched as often as they do.

 

[Azzurro]

As I’ve mentioned before, we play like a side on the back foot and defensive before we start. It’s all about absorbing pressure, but we don’t put anything back.

The balance is way out, and if you are absorbing defense all the time, it’s disheartening to play when you offer nothing offensively.

Defense is a bit down I think, but overall it’s probably the part of the ground I have least concern with. Though with our game style unless our defense is in the best 2-3 in the comp, we will be bottom 6.

While recent history suggests they are top shelf our back 6 were horrific in Q1 this week... regardless, Voss meant the whole team defensive approach is completely letting us down, as many others on here have articulated really well.

Attack starts from defensive effort to win the ball back. We ain't doing it smart enough.

 

[Azzurro]

When Collingwood play defence it’s manic, 18 players across the entire ground committing to the cause.
Therefore if you have that sort of buy in from the collective, offence looks after itself.
It’s like flicking a switch, from one mode to the next, and the Collingwood players automatically do this.
Thats exactly what Voss was referring to. The entire team needs to work together, get their defensive mindset in sync, and the rest will follow.

This this this

 

[BM123]

As I’ve mentioned before, we play like a side on the back foot and defensive before we start. It’s all about absorbing pressure, but we don’t put anything back.

The balance is way out, and if you are absorbing defense all the time, it’s disheartening to play when you offer nothing offensively.

Defense is a bit down I think, but overall it’s probably the part of the ground I have least concern with. Though with our game style unless our defense is in the best 2-3 in the comp, we will be bottom 6.

I'd rate our back 6 more if Mcgovern wasn't a con artist. Marchbank is quality but rarely able to play and Williams is out for the season.

Weitering....looks like he needs a hug.

We lost against Collingwood in the first quarter just like our Adelaide game. If the back 6 were dropping off late from constant inside 50's I'd understand but they aren't really doing well early in games either.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I've tried to stay away from this place but when you need to vent, you need to get it all out! I just need help though. In the last say 30 years how many times has a head coach failed at one club and then been hired again somewhere else and been successful??

My opinion has always been an untried assistant hired in a head coach role is always better than a failed coach at another club.

I'm struggling to be positive about us but when you watch our games it's kind of hard to be.

Parkin - successful coach at another club = successful at Carlton.

Britain - untried assistant = unsuccessful coach at Carlton.

Pagan - successful coach at another club = unsuccessful coach at Carlton.

Ratten - untried assistant = unsuccessful coach at Carlton (did play finals though).

Malthouse - successful coach at another club = unsuccessful coach at Carlton.

Bolton - untried assistant = unsuccessful coach at Carlton.

Teague - untried assistant = unsuccessful coach at Carlton.

Voss - unsuccessful coach at another club = ?

We've tried all models.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

When Collingwood play defence it’s manic, 18 players across the entire ground committing to the cause.
Therefore if you have that sort of buy in from the collective, offence looks after itself.
It’s like flicking a switch, from one mode to the next, and the Collingwood players automatically do this.
Thats exactly what Voss was referring to. The entire team needs to work together, get their defensive mindset in sync, and the rest will follow.

It's more than just being manic. There is a structure to their run so the teammates know someone will be there without even looking. Carlton have to get the ball and assess where their teammates are while under pressure. We have no system.

 

[thebluenewdeal]

It's more than just bring manic. There is a structure to their run so the teammates know someone will be there without even looking. Carlton have to get the ball and assess where their teammates are while under pressure. We have no system.

There is a system behind the ball. We see it patches this year. The reason we see it in patches is because vossys messaging hasn’t been perfect. Outside noise has affected the coaching group and playing groups performance because there’s a game within the game. Voss has realised he’s getting played so he’s now made a move in his last presser. He said he just wanted to key into system and defence. He also showed contrition. He admitted his faults and said he’s focused on two areas only. Defensive system and contest.

With that being said, we still need to win some games to shut out the noise. I’m concerned that it might be too late to turn around the mentality and confidence of this playing group. Only time will tell.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

There is a system behind the ball. We see it patches this year. The reason we see it in patches is because vossys messaging hasn’t been perfect. Outside noise has affected the coaching group and playing groups performance because there’s a game within the game. Voss has realised he’s getting played so he’s now made a move in his last presser. He said he just wanted to key into system and defence. He also showed contrition. He admitted his faults and said he’s focused on two areas only. Defensive system and contest.

With that being said, we still need to win some games to shut out the noise. I’m concerned that it might be too late to turn around the mentality and confidence of this playing group. Only time will tell.

I'm concerned that the defence can not be fixed in season. Weitering is going through the motions. Young does not have the poise or strength. McGovern is already on a plane to Perth. Newman for all the plaudits people are giving him, chucks in the towel far too easily, pads his stats and is too cavalier about his kicking.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Man I am on the record as saying we need to stick with him for 5 years. His press conference tripped me the * out though.

He wants to focus on defence and that's our main problem? What the * our forward line is a piece of s**t, and our disposal is horrific.
Considering what they cop our defence is probably top 6 in the comp

Think it's team defence not so much our last line of defence he referring to ..

 

[GoBlues!]

I'm concerned that the defence can not be fixed in season. Weitering is going through the motions. Young does not have the poise or strength. McGovern is already on a plane to Perth. Newman for all the plaudits people are giving him, chucks in the towel far too easily, pads his stats and is too cavalier about his kicking.

Still think we have the right types for a good defence including Saad, Docherty, Weltering, Boyd, even Cincotta, Kemp and Cowan. Young can look a bit iffy on occasion but also quite effective as well.

 

[Accidental genius]

Voss needs to make some big statements with selections this week. Not the kids but McGovern, Saad, Weitering, and Cripps should all be in the firing line. Let’s see how he plays this. The ball is well and truly in his court.

If he dropped weiters or Cripps he may as well back up his bags and leave.

When Cripps and Voss were discussing on the sideline last week you can see it in Cripps face. He is not happy with something and he didn’t appear accepting of Voss argument. We’ve seen how this movie ends before.

 

[Gointocarlton]

If he dropped weiters or Cripps he may as well back up his bags and leave.

When Cripps and Voss were discussing on the sideline last week you can see it in Cripps face. He is not happy with something and he didn’t appear accepting of Voss argument. We’ve seen how this movie ends before.

How must Vossy be feeling today? Media coming for him, supposed calls by us to Hardwick's management, team not performing, season spiralling out of control. WTF has happened btw rounds 1-11 last year and now?

 

[Accidental genius]

How must Vossy be feeling today? Media coming for him, supposed calls by us to Hardwick's management, team not performing, season spiralling out of control. WTF has happened btw rounds 1-11 last year and now?

Yeah it’s a bit of a mystery.

I recall reports here that we had a very good preseason so I was expecting some progress on how we played last year but we seem to have gone backwards. Whether it’s players not buying in or they can’t follow Voss’s game plan or the game plan is broken.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

One of the big factors in that run of goals was JSOS in the ruck.

The fact the game was basically over because they scored 3-4 goals in a row is ridiculous.

Another weird thing about that run of 3 goals(should have been 4, Pendles missed an easy one) was that JSOS 'semi' won or at least nullified Cameron's(I think) impact.
He was pushed towards the defensive end of the circle and delivered it to Pie mids and no one else got near it.
Should we have stacked more numbers on the defensive side, knowing JSOS was never going to win a clear hitout?

 

[RAPPA]

I understand the frustrations about the game plan, but these "professionals" blatantly kick to the opposition or fail to cleanly hit their target, on several occasions.

 

[Blueballs38]

The "we can't sack another coach" argument is the equivalent of choosing to stay in a bad marriage just because you were previously divorced.

And your approach makes us look like Elizabeth Taylor. We sack Voss we look like a joke that’s been “divorced 8 times.

 

[Blue By Blood]

What I want to know.. why after two preseasons of learning a new game plan do the players still look confused? Why are they still setting up horribly and being caught out of position? Why do we every game get a 6-6-6 warning because the players don’t even know what position they’re playing? I’ve seen multiple instances of two players running to the same position and one being sent away. That’s amateur hour stuff.

These are all basic things. Structure should have been established in preseason 1. After having all of 2022 and now consolidating in preseason 2, player positioning should be automatic and second nature. That’s not all on the players. Game plan is what makes a player look good, especially role players. A strong, simple, clear, and easy to understand game plan instills confidence in players. That in turn leads to more enjoyment. Fosters greater belief in themselves. Leads to better skill execution. More desire to work hard for each other. It’s all a ripple effect.

That’s why other teams laugh at us. We can’t do the basics. We can’t even setup in the correct positions. I really don’t want to have to sack another coach (honestly who does) but it’s becoming clear that there’s a disconnect between players and coach. Not necessarily that they don’t like him but more so that the message and plan he’s putting in place just isn’t connecting with the players and this is causing mistrust and a lack of confidence. We can talk a big game and back the coach but if we keep playing like this for the rest of the year without significant improvement then our hand will be forced regardless of having turned over coaches regularly of late. I know some on here want to back him in and that’s noble and I can respect that.. but performance will be the defining factor. The list is not currently premiership material but it’s also not a list that should miss finals.

 

[bourbons]

What about the 3 years in the wilderness when he started?? Didn't make finals till his 4th.

Difference there would be the upward trend, first 4 years Dimma went

6 wins (15th)
8 wins (12th)
10 wins (12th)
15 wins (5th)

Can't see us even matching last season with 12 wins, he might get away with 1 backslide but no chance imo they keep on with Vossy if '24 is another down year.

 

[gbatman]

OK Brad and Brian, the perfect senior assistant has just become available. Show us what you have got and go get him.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

I'm concerned that the defence can not be fixed in season. Weitering is going through the motions. Young does not have the poise or strength. McGovern is already on a plane to Perth. Newman for all the plaudits people are giving him, chucks in the towel far too easily, pads his stats and is too cavalier about his kicking.

Saad lacks physicality when he tackles... gets shrugged off way too easily.

 

[Accidental genius]

OK Brad and Brian, the perfect senior assistant has just become available. Show us what you have got and go get him.

after 3 flags why would he want to play second fiddle ....specially at a club that is all too happy to pull the trigger on coaches?


hardwick, like clarko will most probably want another senior gig after taking some time off.

 

[bourbons]

What a strange question.

We're not even half way through the year and we've already won more games than we did in some full seasons over the past 20 odd years.

Hmm dunno.

We're certainly not as 'bad' wins wise as we have been in years past, but I think there's a case to be made the way the current year is playing out is perhaps the most disappointing. We had no expectations and precious little talent in those bad years.

Completely different to this year imo. Coming off a 'good' year that ended badly where the team showed patches of really good top flight footy most weeks, with only a small improvement needed to realistically make finals for the first time in a decade... to come out and serve up what they have is pretty diabolical.

 

[jj1978]

Parkin - successful coach at another club = successful at Carlton.

Britain - untried assistant = unsuccessful coach at Carlton.

Pagan - successful coach at another club = unsuccessful coach at Carlton.

Ratten - untried assistant = unsuccessful coach at Carlton (did play finals though).

Malthouse - successful coach at another club = unsuccessful coach at Carlton.

Bolton - untried assistant = unsuccessful coach at Carlton.

Teague - untried assistant = unsuccessful coach at Carlton.

Voss - unsuccessful coach at another club = ?

We've tried all models.

For us it's been a sliding door of moments;

• Britain we should've retained (bloody Elliot), he was both able to lead and teach the players but also a good strategist and had his pulse on the modern game
• Pagan still had some nouse, but like Mick his gameplan was already known and easily picked apart and made no effort to adapt or change. No Carey === No Pagan. Also didn't help that his tenure commenced just prior to the reaming.
• Ratten should've retained... Kernahan's lack of fortitude and courage and easily swayed by power brokers and our CEO destroyed what could've been. Ratten through injuries and a mix and match list managed to get us into finals (thump * glouriously in one) and was a dubious late umpiring non-call in the West from getting us into a prelim after we again were smacked by injuries in the game. Even when he was sacked his win loss that season was still good enough to get us into finals in other seasons... and the players goal kicking inaccuracy (deja vu) that season, especially against GC cost him.
• Malthouse === cooked. Fuelled by anger and wanting to up-yours Eddie... without the support, players and co. he had at the Pies, this old man was never going to elevate us. His priorities prior and during were all out of whack.
• Bolton, would've retained him another season... think he deserved to see the season and the next out just as I think we'd be bearing some fruit from his efforts. Just needed to overhaul his assistants and I think he would've had some success.
• Teague, a major train crash and and just eradicated all the good work Bolton did. Don't know who would've been worse, he or Barker.
• Voss ---- who knows... at the moment his foresight into game evolution and in-game adjustments are failing... our skills are horrid and for a guy who played with one of the most skilled and aggressive teams this comes as a huge surprise that at least this has not been a core training feature.

I think no matter who is coach as long as they're the right coach for the state of the list, can adapt as the list evolves and has a pulse on tactics and being ahead of the pulse they'll succeed to an extent.

For us we need a huge overhaul in conditioning, recruitment and coaches able to teach basics/skills and from there maybe Voss has a chance to succeed somewhat.

 

[bmaurizio]

Agree with you, we need a significant overhaul in all the football department sections highlighted , we‘re stuffy & stagnant at the moment, the zip has vanished.
Voss too is a concern, seems intractable, lacks vision and creative flexibility.

 

[3rd Grade Maggy]

Absolutely has to be dropped. Non-negotiable as far as I'm concerned...

Clearly 'omitted' as well, not 'managed'.