Coach Michael Voss

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Gointocarlton said:
Mate that's called footy, the idea is get rid of it to a bloke with the same coloured jumper as yours before you get tackled. I'm not talking about that anyway, I am talking about simple kicks and handballs that either go over the intended receivers head, hit them on the shins or go straight to a bloke with a different coloured jumper on. I dont know what game you watched last night but I know what I saw and the skill levels were terrible. Even Voss admitted in his presser execution killed us. Lets just agree to disagree and move on.
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Yes last night esp first half I agree..but this isn't about just last night its about the whole body of work from mid last season.
When u go slow..when u go backwards and sideways and short u invite the pressure more than if u didn't. And if u got guys who carnt execute then why continue to adopt this method.
 
plentyblckie said:
And this game style invites pressure on the ball handler
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When I say BS I am referencing the point of view being expressed - so just to begin I'm not having a go at you personally...

In simple terms - poor execution invites pressure. I have some reservations about certain aspects of how players set up with each other - things that are easily corrected - but my greatest reservations are based on seeing how below par too many of the players are in executing kicks. A kick is what makes teams 'fast' - nto running. AFL is a running game only to the extent players run into positions to receive kicks to advantage.

The stats tell us that the players are not being lazy - the effort is there they are winning more than their share of contested - tackles last night were very high - what cost the game was basic kicking execution - field kicking.

and watching the cost of poor field kicking over and over and over again - is enough for people to 'lose it' - I get that. What I dont 'get' is blame on teh coach. I've watched Carlton coaches come and go for 20 years now -and I like Vossy - the most - for all sorts of reasons.
 

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plentyblckie said:
Yes last night esp first half I agree..but this isn't about just last night its about the whole body of work from mid last season.
When u go slow..when u go backwards and sideways and short u invite the pressure more than if u didn't. And if u got guys who carnt execute then why continue to adopt this method.
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JustaBattler said:
When I say BS I am referencing the point of view being expressed - so just to begin I'm not having a go at you personally...

In simple terms - poor execution invites pressure. I have some reservations about certain aspects of how players set up with each other - things that are easily corrected - but my greatest reservations are based on seeing how below par too many of the players are in executing kicks. A kick is what makes teams 'fast' - nto running. AFL is a running game only to the extent players run into positions to receive kicks to advantage.

The stats tell us that the players are not being lazy - the effort is there they are winning more than their share of contested - tackles last night were very high - what cost the game was basic kicking execution - field kicking.

and watching the cost of poor field kicking over and over and over again - is enough for people to 'lose it' - I get that. What I dont 'get' is blame on teh coach. I've watched Carlton coaches come and go for 20 years now -and I like Vossy - the most - for all sorts of reasons.
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The suggestions that Voss cannot coach by many of our supporters is wrong.
Having coached myself fir many years I can tell you there are many aspects to coaching even more so at the AFL level.
Personally I think he dies alot of things right.
But his gane plan isn't working.
I'm a believer in that we have the talent. But we are still too relient on it at the expense of system
 
Probably reached out to his old mate Browny for some coaching tips.

Voss: “Browny it’s all going to sh## I need some sage advice”
Browny: “Yeah, nah, Mate… you got those 2 big fellas up in the forward line, just keep kicking to them and you’ll be sweet”
 
plentyblckie said:
The suggestions that Voss cannot coach by many of our supporters is wrong.
Having coached myself fir many years I can tell you there are many aspects to coaching even more so at the AFL level.
Personally I think he dies alot of things right.
But his gane plan isn't working.
I'm a believer in that we have the talent. But we are still too relient on it at the expense of system
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You along with too many on here are failing to recognise the reason why the game was lost last night - turnovers cost 75 points - that isn't coaching or game plan. Maybe it is just easier for people to point a finger at 'game plan' - which to my eye is exactly the same as most teams play- except the better teams do it better.
 
JustaBattler said:
You along with too many on here are failing to recognise the reason why the game was lost last night - turnovers cost 75 points - that isn't coaching or game plan. Maybe it is just easier for people to point a finger at 'game plan' - which to my eye is exactly the same as most teams play- except the better teams do it better.
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On this I cannot agree..neither do the so called footy experts or champion data
We don't play like everyone else except maybe freo
 
plentyblckie said:
On this I cannot agree..neither do the so called footy experts or champion data
We don't play like everyone else except maybe freo
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watch more games mate- the whole 'game style' meme is a crock of crapola.
 
Michael Jezz said:
My opinion is the playing gtoup has lacked leadership. My understanding is our skill training was driven by senior players during our premiership. Eg Keogh mentoring harmes, johnston. Skill errors and soft attack exposed during sunday sessions and drilled during Tuesday to Thursday training. Cripps, Weiters, Doch do not lead but better than murphy, Gibbs
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For effectively two quarters last night we couldn’t move the ball from full back past the wing.
Being at the ground it was stunning how few players ran really hard to make an option. Basically our plan was to wait for McKay/Curnow to run halfway up the field and take a hanger.
Even before McKay went off it must have be clear to those playing that the plan wasn’t working. It was brutally obvious as a spectator at the ground.
Despite this all I could see were experienced senior players waving their hands and pointing. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility.
There was no leadership to actually run to create a different option.
We are absolutely devoid of onfield leadership when things get tough. Someone to drive a stake into the ground and say: enough’s enough.
Last night Cripps was one of the worst offenders. He was getting mauled (and owned) by Dunkley in the stoppages but seemingly did stuff all to expose him in other areas. Maybe his running by power is limited …
He’s not the only one.
We have very good leaders in my view - guys like Weitering, Walsh, Docherty, Newman.
But give me an example of when one of these guys changed the course of a game in the past couple of years to drive us to victory.
I can’t think of one.
 

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plentyblckie said:
The suggestions that Voss cannot coach by many of our supporters is wrong.
Having coached myself fir many years I can tell you there are many aspects to coaching even more so at the AFL level.
Personally I think he dies alot of things right.
But his gane plan isn't working.
I'm a believer in that we have the talent. But we are still too relient on it at the expense of system
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I think there was a distinct difference in the way we played against wce (albeit they are a pretty crap atm)...bit hard to gauge because they are struggling so badly with injuries - but it seemed different comapred to the previous weeks this season.

Against the lions I thought we started ok with some quick ball movement but as the game wore on we started making more and more mistakes (kicking/handpasses) and gradually turned it over more and more to the point it became embarrassingly bad.

the players skill errors killed us in the end...

However, you may have a point about the coaching too. Im sure there were things they could have changed up which may have provided a bit of a spark/turning point. They also need to help where they can. They've got to be asking the questions - did we pick best team, did we play players in the best position for the team, did we instruct our players individually and as a team how we want them to play, do we communicate things effectively to the group etc etc

Coaching, the quality of the list and on field leadership all go hand in hand to produce good outcomes. I dont know how we rate in terms of on field leadership but it doesnt appear to be that impressive.
 
plentyblckie said:
I watch plenty.
I've watch us play live over 800 times.
Ive coached for yrs.
Happy to sit with u anytime u want at a game.
That's my opinion.. thats yours.
Don't use the watch a game bs
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Then open your eyes- every team plays the same game plan mate - what you are confusing game plan with is in game execution
Michael Jezz said:
Not my words but how carlton is perceived in the football industry
s**t: culture, coaching, leadership, recruitment, gameplan, list, board.
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What a coincidence then - I've just come back from dinner with a Club President - the industry view is that Carlton is on the rise - just need to do the time as all Clubs have had to do. No Club is perfect- just ask angry supporters after a loss. Ask Clubs like Sydney or Geelong, how long it takes to win a flag - despite being in finals most years. The better question is ask them how long they should keep a coach and why...

You 'industry heavyweight anecdote severely undervalues the quality of people at Carlton - by a lot - and you undervalue the fact that the list is nowhere near complete as far as genuine contention goes - by even more.
 
JustaBattler said:
Then open your eyes- every team plays the same game plan mate - what you are confusing game plan with is in game execution

What a coincidence then - I've just come back from dinner with a Club President - the industry view is that Carlton is on the rise - just need to do the time as all Clubs have had to do. No Club is perfect- just ask angry supporters after a loss. Ask Clubs like Sydney or Geelong, how long it takes to win a flag - despite being in finals most years. The better question is ask them how long they should keep a coach and why...

You 'industry heavyweight anecdote severely undervalues the quality of people at Carlton - by a lot - and you undervalue the fact that the list is nowhere near complete as far as genuine contention goes - by even more.
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We are not respected in the football industry, that is not by me. It is an outside perception. I have advocated massive list changes all season
 
JustaBattler said:
You along with too many on here are failing to recognise the reason why the game was lost last night - turnovers cost 75 points - that isn't coaching or game plan. Maybe it is just easier for people to point a finger at 'game plan' - which to my eye is exactly the same as most teams play- except the better teams do it better.
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Why the such high number of turnovers though? Does our game style or game plan invite quick, blind kicks out of a stoppage or constant long bombs to two tall forwards which opposition can set up for?

I couldnt believe what I was watching during the Saints game, constant long kicks forward straight to the opposition, blindly kicking the ball forward and just kicking to near where Harry and Charlie were, it was terrible. Saw plenty of Skill errors last night, but saw a side that had no idea of what to do in quarters 2 and 3 when Brisbane went up a notch.

What I’m struggling to form a view on is, is it just a bunch of players who all fold under pressure and just kick the ball with no thought? Or, are they coached just to bomb the ball long, take a contested mark and if not, get a stoppage?

Ive only been to one game this year against the Tigers and watching us move the ball out of defence looked like the plan was, bomb long and hope for a pack mark, if not, get a ball up.

High scores from turnovers aren’t just a result from skill errors but also will be affected by an in efficient gameplan too
 
We’ve come a long way these past 66 games - we’re in a far better position and at worse we’ll only be half a game out of the eight after this round.

We’re only a goal a quarter behind a genuine top 4 contender- a few minor tweaks to the game plan and tidy up a bit of skill execution will swiftly change things.
 

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Coach Michael Voss

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