Coach Michael Voss

[bourbons]

Voss is either a good coach or we don’t have the list .. you can’t have it both ways.
I personally feel we have a decent list that should be playing better . Season is not over but if we don’t play finals , he has to go , no ifs or buts about it

It's both.

He's a bog average coach and apart from the top 6-8 the list is terrible. Yet another 1 quarter effort last night. 9 games in and apart from vs a WAFL team a few weeks back there hasn't been a 4 quarter effort all season. Hell, there hasn't been a 3 quarter one

We are so far off it its hilarious.

 

[Arr0w]

I think our general execution skills around the ground have also been down for large parts of the games this year arrow.

Crippas have a poor year and apart from Cerra, not many are stepping up and our midfield look like statues at centre bounces.

Mentioned this a few weeks ago, apart from Charlie, Cerra and Newman, none of our other players have maintained or surpassed last year's output

Only 2 possible factors for why that's the case

 

[thylacine60]

Looking forward to watching you turn on Voss. Only a matter of time.

Some people have a bit more quality and resolve to them.

 

[Bostonian]

I guess the better question is -

In your mind what ARE players responsible for?

Following the coaching panels game plan and instructions.

 

[bourbons]

Shouldn’t be too hard to improve on the “one goal in a half of footy” gameplan we are rolling with

At this point might as well throw any semblance of "gameplan" out the window and just go quick and chaotic to even a semi open forward line, only times we looked like scoring last night.

First half was the most repulsive footy I think I've ever watched. Fairly convinced now Teague wouldn't be doing much worse, we'd be losing some games by bigger margins but we'd also kick 100 points occasionally too.

 

[95blues]

Following the coaching panels game plan and instructions.

You're better than that I hope. Unless your suggesting Vossy has forgot to tell them to kick it between the big sticks and to the guys in the same jersey.

Who is responsible for execution?

 

[Arr0w]

An interesting post

The board that selected Voss and passed on Ross Lyon; and a multitude of other coaching failures should depart first.

Perhaps we should wait for Lyon to actually achieve something of note, before stating we made the wrong decision

Could Lyon have improved our consistency? Possibly. But let's see how it plays out

Stick to football and trying to win matches, leave the coloured socks and guernsey trimming activities to others. The club is being used by activists to push agendas, keep politics/social causes out of sport regardless of the cause.

So every club that hasn't won a flag in recent times, or ones that eventually do, should also eliminate off field initiatives and values?

Andrew Russell is so highly paid that the $ in the soft cap must be lacking to hire a true senior assistant.

I have no idea what Russell is being paid, nor how that compares to others in tge industry. Not sure we are strapped for cash though

Voss needs someone that isn’t a yes man like Aaron Hamill but a coach that will challenge and question the floored coaching plan.

How do you know Hamill is a yes man

Give Voss a season with someone like Leon Cameron as his right hand man and see how it goes.

Might help, might not. No real evidence either way

And Andrew Russell - if AFL is a performance based industry, he cannot be retained. He will depart by seasons end, this will be helpful but too late.

What are you basing Russell's performance on, coaching, execution or player availability

Carlton has endured a playing list that has too much sway without earning that right. A champion team beats a team of champions. Tough decisions about certain players need to be made at seasons end. Focus on top draft talent not high priced recruits on inflated wages.

Tough decisions are made each year

Anyhow, Voss has failed to date because he lacks the tactician element. Give him a tactician as a right hand man with the strength to say we need to change.

Failed compared to current expectations, but not sure it’s a tactician that we are lacking as to our current output

 

[I bleed Blue]

The board that selected Voss and passed on Ross Lyon; and a multitude of other coaching failures should depart first.

The fish rots from the head - Voss leaving will still see the galahs around the board table.

New board with a reset of the clubs off field values.

Stick to football and trying to win matches, leave the coloured socks and guernsey trimming activities to others. The club is being used by activists to push agendas, keep politics/social causes out of sport regardless of the cause.

Andrew Russell is so highly paid that the $ in the soft cap must be lacking to hire a true senior assistant. Voss needs someone that isn’t a yes man like Aaron Hamill but a coach that will challenge and question the floored coaching plan.

Give Voss a season with someone like Leon Cameron as his right hand man and see how it goes.

And Andrew Russell - if AFL is a performance based industry, he cannot be retained. He will depart by seasons end, this will be helpful but too late.

Carlton has endured a playing list that has too much sway without earning that right. A champion team beats a team of champions. Tough decisions about certain players need to be made at seasons end. Focus on top draft talent not high priced recruits on inflated wages.

Anyhow, Voss has failed to date because he lacks the tactician element. Give him a tactician as a right hand man with the strength to say we need to change.

Absolutely.

We have made bad coaching move after bad coaching move.

- Sacking Ratten after one injury plagued year. In my opinion was the wrong move, however I can see trying to take us to the next level if we thought we had the list.

- Malthouse. Complete shit show of an appointment. Was obvious from the get go that his heart wasn't in it (or not for the right motivations) when he went on his book tour.

- Bolton. Tick. He was what we needed at the time.

- Teague- weak decision. I'll admit I was one on the Teague train... however those appointing coaches have to be above the excitement supporters get caught up in. Wrong appointment. Judd was right when he said we needed a coach without training wheels.

- Voss. Obviously we were going for someone with "experience". We relentlessly chased Clarko, who we wouldn't have made go through a "process". Had Ross Lyon keen as mustard, with the right motivations, keen to come on board... but wanted him to go through a "process".

Acted slowly because we were holding out hope for Clarko. Let Collingwood snatch up the best untried coach. Failed to get Clarko. The whole Lyon fiasco was a farce. Voss was the last man standing...

Board now needs to take responsibility and all go. They've continually made poor and weak decisions.

 

[Bostonian]

You're better than that I hope. Unless your suggesting Vossy has forgot to tell them to kick it between the big sticks and to the guys in the same jersey.

Who is responsible for execution?

Well if they do it one match then it's on the players.

If they do it week after week then it becomes a coaching problem.

We are seeing the same thing week after week.


Voss was never a good coach in the first place, not so sure why we thought he'd become a good head coach with a winning game plan when we brought him in.

 

[bourbons]

TikTok - Make Your Day

Coach that.

I mean... yeah probably time to?

I'd consider banning all snaps team wide for the next month after last night. Do it and you're automatically dropped lol

Seriously tho, pretty obvious our players in general and Harry in particular have no set routine. Maybe devote some time to that during the week at the expense of gameplan and structure stuff, try to get at least some bang for buck.

 

[Blue and Blue]

Absolutely.

We have made bad coaching move after bad coaching move.

- Sacking Ratten after one injury plagued year. In my opinion was the wrong move, however I can see trying to take us to the next level if we thought we had the list.

- Malthouse. Complete s**t show of an appointment. Was obvious from the get go that his heart wasn't in it (or not for the right motivations) when he went on his book tour.

- Bolton. Tick. He was what we needed at the time.

- Teague- weak decision. I'll admit I was one on the Teague train... however those appointing coaches have to be above the excitement supporters get caught up in. Wrong appointment. Judd was right when he said we needed a coach without training wheels.

- Voss. Obviously we were going for someone with "experience". We relentlessly chased Clarko, who we wouldn't have made go through a "process". Had Ross Lyon keen as mustard, with the right motivations, keen to come on board... but wanted him to go through a "process".

Acted slowly because we were holding out hope for Clarko. Let Collingwood snatch up the best untried coach. Failed to get Clarko. The whole Lyon fiasco was a farce. Voss was the last man standing...

Board now needs to take responsibility and all go. They've continually made poor and weak decisions.

It's all so easy when one spends the whole time looking backwards.
However the future is all we have, and in that is hope always.

 

[Accidental genius]

I mean... yeah probably time to?

I'd consider banning all snaps team wide for the next month after last night. Do it and you're automatically dropped lol

Seriously tho, pretty obvious our players in general and Harry in particular have no set routine. Maybe devote some time to that during the week at the expense of gameplan and structure stuff, try to get at least some bang for buck.

if our players all followed a set shot routine, we could easily score another 10-20% through accuracy. that would have made a big difference in last nights game.

in terms of spending time during the week it is where we can get the biggest bang for our buck.

fixing kicking alone makes us immediately better. no brainer really.

 

[P_Crippy]

Forgive my post seeming to be a bit all over the place, as i am basically trying to expel some thoughts from my head.
I certainly don't watch and analyse our game as closely as a lot of posters on here, but one thing that has struck me this season is how 'static' we are on field. To my eyes it always seems like the opposition we are losing to are moving the ball quicker, and are always on the move without it.
It seems that we really can't use a long injury list as an excuse either, allowing for some "gelling" for team mates that have not played a lot of games together. I wonder how much McGoverns extra availability this year has affected Weitering's form/way he plays.
As for the coach, i was right behind his appointment at the time and perhaps naively wanted to believe the club had gone through an appointment in a thorough and detailed process. The thing is, i have angst about the club just turning the coach over again, but i am all for bolstering the assistants. At the time i do remember wondering why Hamill was an appointment i/we should get enthused about. Admittedly, i was ignorant of anyone singing his praises in previous roles. It felt like a rushed appointment.
Maybe we do need to be brave with our trading, but perhaps i just want the club to try something different to what we have done for the last 15 years.
I don't have solutions to offer, and I also will not blame individuals.
If the coach gets replaced, then why go through a similar process that netted us Voss. It might turn out ok, i just don't have faith that the people hiring are the right people.
If we sack our current coach, i would almost rather we do it because we have headhunted someone like Longmire and made him an off too good to refuse. I know that is a bit of "old" Carlton, but maybe it's what we need.

 

[passmark]

Forget that second half. Or if you do remember it, also remember the pathetic collapse in the last 5 minutes, and then think back to the collapses in the last 5 minutes that cost us the season.

This is a team with the talent to win the premiership and we can't kick more than a goal in a half of football, cant kick 10 goals in a match. The structure is an utter mess. Players across the team have had their confidence shot. Our reserves can't beat the under 18s and are filled with players we once had hope for who look lost and disinterested. We have no idea how to close out games, and frankly, half th pkayers don't seem to care.

The ship is sailing on the careers of Cripps, Saad, Docherty... if we continue for another year of this you can add Curnow, McKay, Weitering to that list too. As much talent as we have had since 1995 and we are pissing it up against the wall.

I don't know the answer. Voss should probably have been moved on after the collapse to end last year. The writing was on the wall then and it is now. He is a nice guy but this team is balls at the moment and we have a lot of history that says we know where this is heading...

Thinking this is a premiership team your first mistake.

If we we’re at 100% full strength with Martin, Williams, Cunningham and everyone playing at the their peak, we may be good enough for a top 4.
But we aren’t.
We’re 3-6 players away from a flag team still.

 

[dumb]

this is a group that we understand has had to be taught things like how to ice games. i don't get into the 'footy iq' talk too much but it shows just how much they have needed to learn. there's examples of other things like how we're not always surprised to see no-one sitting in the goal square for a deep in the 50 ball up, and goal-kicking stands out as poor currently.
it may be that he has to teach the group in a way that other team's players would find patronising. icing games 101, goal-kicking 101. where to go when you're behind the ball because someone on your team is run-and-gunning up the field. he may not have imagined applying his knowledge in a way that talks down to the players as if they're in high school, but evidence suggests our players lack a few of the fundamental building blocks to be successful. there's sometimes no 'nice' way to teach people basic things. you get a sav rocca in to start again.
we've noticed that it looks like the players have been told to come up with their own routines for set shots. most players have to tweak their game over the course of their career. some of it does maybe come across as they found out they could kick goals around the corner when they were fooling around. it doesn't strike me as something that's as easily repeatable as a drop punt. good luck sorting that mess out, whoever it is that might teach things like that to our team.

i think it's up for debate as to how much the game plan is used by the players vs the coach. if we're of the thinking voss gives players licence for the goal-kicking routines, he likely does the same for things like our strangled play style. we get behind early on and players poop their pants and hold things up.

Don't care who the coach is really, I'm not that invested in who they decide to prop up in front of the microphones.
The 3 year contract is to get him in the door, before he starts getting pushed out in 1.5 years if things aren't looking so hot. Good luck.

you can't keep giving coaches the arse after not much time and get anyone considered in the top of their field. it doesn't matter how good they are or how good they think they are.
who would come to such an environment? it may be that voss isn't 'the one' but to push another one out, we're telling coaches that we will not give them, like voss, everything they needed - particularly time. and what of the effect of payouts on our bottom line?
where does sacking a coach after 1.5 years fit in with a cultural stink people have decided is wafting around again? i don't know the answer but it has to be considered.

 

[timbertron]

Since going 8-2 to start the Voss tenure we've gone 4-12-1 since then. That's a bottom 4 team. It's really bad and no matter how you spin it we are going to have no chance of playing finals if that ratio continues. It's depressing

On Pixel 4 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[NewDarkNavyBlues]

Some people have a bit more quality and resolve to them.

Absolutely.

We have made bad coaching move after bad coaching move.

- Sacking Ratten after one injury plagued year. In my opinion was the wrong move, however I can see trying to take us to the next level if we thought we had the list.

- Malthouse. Complete s**t show of an appointment. Was obvious from the get go that his heart wasn't in it (or not for the right motivations) when he went on his book tour.

- Bolton. Tick. He was what we needed at the time.

- Teague- weak decision. I'll admit I was one on the Teague train... however those appointing coaches have to be above the excitement supporters get caught up in. Wrong appointment. Judd was right when he said we needed a coach without training wheels.

- Voss. Obviously we were going for someone with "experience". We relentlessly chased Clarko, who we wouldn't have made go through a "process". Had Ross Lyon keen as mustard, with the right motivations, keen to come on board... but wanted him to go through a "process".

Acted slowly because we were holding out hope for Clarko. Let Collingwood snatch up the best untried coach. Failed to get Clarko. The whole Lyon fiasco was a farce. Voss was the last man standing...

Board now needs to take responsibility and all go. They've continually made poor and weak decisions.

Correct. The board plus Brad Lloyd need to go.

 

[bourbons]

So simple that they've been doing it since they were 6.

If you really think an AFL coach dedicates even a minute of his time to coaching individual players on their set shot routines then you can't be helped.

Lol.

Well not the head coach but someone needs to lol. I agree with you it seems ridiculous but here we are, proof is in the pudding.

 

[95blues]

Well not the head coach but someone needs to lol. I agree with you it seems ridiculous but here we are, proof is in the pudding.

I'll jump on board the head coach hate as soon as I see us lose a game or two while executing the basics at an AFL level.

As for the assistants and line coaches... have never been a fan of any of them.

I just don't see any "gameplan" or coach doing any better with the way our players are executing.

 

[btdg]

Thinking this is a premiership team your first mistake.

If we we’re at 100% full strength with Martin, Williams, Cunningham and everyone playing at the their peak, we may be good enough for a top 4.
But we aren’t.
We’re 3-6 players away from a flag team still.

Come off it. We are perpetually '5-6 players away. Always living in the future and never the now.

We have 6 All Australians aged 25-29 - i their prime right now. We have more than enough around them to at least be a contender. If we fall short, then look to plug some gaps and go again.

Right now, we have a top 6 list but we are playing like a bottom 6 team. It simply isnt good enough.

And if we adopt a 'just 5-6 more players' approach what then? How do we even start that process? We have no money for free agents, very little draft capital, and we are likely to lose players as gain them (as we saw last year with Setterfield).

Gow long do we wait before expectations rise? One more year? Two? Three? Cripps Docherty, Saad will be on their way out by then. Are we really replacing three players that good jn the ext 3 years?

This is it, right now. The club said today they arent panicking. They should be. This is, right now, an utter disaster

 

[Beyond Blue]

Since going 8-2 to start the Voss tenure we've gone 4-12-1 since then. That's a bottom 4 team. It's really bad and no matter how you spin it we are going to have no chance of playing finals if that ratio continues. It's depressing

On Pixel 4 using BigFooty.com mobile app

8-12-1 since the 8-2 start not 4-12-1

 

[bourbons]

Thinking this is a premiership team your first mistake.

If we we’re at 100% full strength with Martin, Williams, Cunningham and everyone playing at the their peak, we may be good enough for a top 4.
But we aren’t.
We’re 3-6 players away from a flag team still.

Martin, Williams and Cunningham are pipe dreams mate, just blokes whose bodies don't allow them to play league footy unfortunately. Sooner they're all off the list the better, probably Marchbank too.

 

[bourbons]

I'll jump on board the head coach hate as soon as I see us lose a game or two while executing the basics at an AFL level.

As for the assistants and line coaches... have never been a fan of any of them.

I just don't see any "gameplan" or coach doing any better with the way our players are executing.

Like I said its both. Yeah skills and execution is deplorable but so too is the structure.

Perfect example 10 mins into the first quarter last night. Doc bites off an ambitious kick instead of going long down the line (yay!) and hits Cottrell I think it was at centre half back, he fans it wider to Weitering with no one within 25 meters of him. Weiters looks up and... has absolutely no one to kick to on the fat side, no one even leading or making space. Bombs long to Curnow who doesn't quite make it, Dogs mop up.

Thats a complete failure of structure and players' understanding of what they're trying to do.

 

[dumb]

Martin, Williams and Cunningham are pipe dreams mate, just blokes whose bodies don't allow them to play league footy unfortunately. Sooner they're all off the list the better, probably Marchbank too.

we could have drafted, developed and delisted some other young guns in the time some of those have spent on the sidelines. time to get vfl games into some new faces...

 

[Monty1978]

It's both.

He's a bog average coach and apart from the top 6-8 the list is terrible. Yet another 1 quarter effort last night. 9 games in and apart from vs a WAFL team a few weeks back there hasn't been a 4 quarter effort all season. Hell, there hasn't been a 3 quarter one

We are so far off it its hilarious.

So we have a terrible list but then you say if we have not played a 4 quarter effort… that doesn’t make sense .. if we played a 4 quarter effort every week we would be on top of the ladder because our list is good enough .. so it’s the coach mate