Contested, down the line, stagnant...
Sounds like Mick Malthouse ....
Thought we all hated that
I am with you Soapy V
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AFLW 2024 - Round 9 - Indigenous Round - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Coach Michael Voss
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Sounds like Mick Malthouse ....
Thought we all hated that
I am with you Soapy V
Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk
Yep why he's fully lost me (admit it wasn't hard as I always had reservations). But the ad-nauseum of hearing the same things each bloody week;
- We find out a lot more about ourselves
- We'll get to work
- Still finding the best version of ourselves
- We have belief in ourselves
- Consistency.
It seems a lot of times we execute an original plan, it goes balls up so we switch to another game-plan/execution and then magic happens, or we start of on fire, switch game-plan/execution and it goes to hell.
The man and his coaching team have each played the game 100+ games each, coached for numerous years. I'm sorry if the combined collective of the coaching group is still confused and finding the best version, or can't get through to the players then what the hell is going on?
Mitchell has found a pretty decent version quite quickly off a bunch of scraps.
Scott every couple of years keeps finding a new decent version whilst adapting, as has Horse.
Then you have Hardwick who finally found something close to it and sustained it for 5 seasons, and now is getting Suns going who'll most likely play their first finals next season.
McRae comes in with an average list sprinkled with a handful of decent stars (kinda like us), Prelim - Premiership
Fagan at least has kept the Lions for 6 seasons now in contention after being a bigger basketcase than us at one point.
Then Kingsley first year tweaked, got them going, this year looks like tried to tweak again, wasn't working as well and re-adjusted and were 3 minutes away from another prelim (which they still should get to anyway) and quite frankly should've been in the GF last season as the noise of affirmation from 95K toothless ones spooked the umps.
Hinkley like Voss are passing off game-plan and tactics to a senior assistant. Hinkley has the benefit of a home ground advantage and at least a well balanced midfield with pace and good defence that has masked the cracks of his ineptitude (you don't have 15billions sack Hinkley posts for nothing on their forum).
Good on Voss for improving himself after his Brisbane stint where he couldn't string two words together in a presser and seemed over-awed. He's gone to the same school as Bolton on that side of things. We have the talent, but there are aspects of our coaching, fitness and recruitment that combined keep screwing us over each and every season for the last 5 years.
The execution is a polite way a coach admits that the players are simply not good enough. Voss has made some mistakes but I feel if we hard the right side in we would be doing well.
The thing is the coach directs the list management. If Voss is not pushing for a more mobile, quick and defensive midfield then he is the problem. Dropping Lord for Cerra is a massive concern for me.
I have had a huge amount of doubt over Voss over his time. I think he has played the wrong players a lot. He's valued big bodies over good runners and that simply is not where the game is at. Last year's pre-finals selections was a big example of that.
The game style we need to play, it's going to be hard with the players we have. The forwards need to be able to think like forwards and the midfield needs to be able to run.
- Feb 19, 2018
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Off you trot mate don’t tell me you think Lyons a better coach
Lyon is a better coach. Take away his persona and indiscretions and even his less than entertaining game plan at times. He's managed to get buy in from the group, turned ordinary players into well drilled role players.
What worries me most is his lying/favouritism.
How many times would he have said everyone on the list has an opportunity no matter if you were pick 1 or a rookie? Yet when the whips are cracking and he has an opportunity to back up that sentiment he didn't pick the in form/younger players. Instead resulted to bringing in underdone favourites.
If I was Binns and Lord I'd be filthy.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. But he would've know Cerra/Willams/Docherty weren't 100% and he picked them anyway.
The only time I would ever condone picking players with a injury cloud over their heads for a final would be a Judd/Ablett type.
A lot of coaches do it, but it doesn't excuse this behaviour. He's blatantly lied to the supporters and players over the course of the year imo.
How many times would he have said everyone on the list has an opportunity no matter if you were pick 1 or a rookie? Yet when the whips are cracking and he has an opportunity to back up that sentiment he didn't pick the in form/younger players. Instead resulted to bringing in underdone favourites.
If I was Binns and Lord I'd be filthy.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. But he would've know Cerra/Willams/Docherty weren't 100% and he picked them anyway.
The only time I would ever condone picking players with a injury cloud over their heads for a final would be a Judd/Ablett type.
A lot of coaches do it, but it doesn't excuse this behaviour. He's blatantly lied to the supporters and players over the course of the year imo.
Well he admitted 100% that TDK wasn't 100% and picked him the only gamble that worked somewhat, but one could argue 10 goals up and the heat of the game had diminished so Lions players weren't putting in 100% (only in bursts to maintain control).
bradfisher14
Not actually Brad Fisher
It doesn’t take a good coach 12 months to implement their game plan.
- Oct 4, 2015
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His tactics aren't inspiring, but he has taken 2 sides to a grand final...
What's Voss done?
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Do we keep him for the sake of not sacking another coach?
I'm not advocating to sack Voss, but the time will eventually come...
Are we going to wait until Cripps retires?
We need to get better support around him at the very least. Hamill backline coach, Russell forwards coach, Clarke midfield... we need to rejig this, make Hamill forward coach, Russell and Clarke... might need replacing.
Published yesterday
www.theage.com.au
How Michael Voss has changed his methods and his methods have changed Carlton
The Blues coach will meet his old club, the Brisbane Lions, for the second time in a final, on Saturday night.
- Oct 10, 2016
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Can someone legitimately justify voss keeping his job and why
bradfisher14
Not actually Brad Fisher
Made finals two years in a row with one of the worst injury records in the league.
Not saying I agree, but I can understand why he’s safe for another year on that basis.
Yep, as I've said earlier, if the marriage ain't working you don't stay married for the sake of the children.
I'd love to hear from Cook/Sayers a little more in depth reasoning why they still think he's our main coach and has he improved himself in areas thus far that he's been lacking in?
He's purportedly a great man-manager. Is he man managing the kids well? Is he non hypocritical?
What other virtues does a coach require?
- Improve players confidence
- Improve players skills
- Articulate a clear and able to be execute game plan and have it enforced
- Adapt to changes in the game
- Flexibility
So let's say he's got man-management as a tick (though I'd argue he's lacking somewhat there in a few aspects).
Players confidence for half of each of his seasons seems shot. Cross
Skill improvement I'd say a resounding no as our foot, hand-balling, tackling skills are about where they've always been at. Only Harry has invested time in fixing his goal kicking routine that has improved his accuracy a little. Cross
As he's stated game plan not executed, we're inconsitent.. so either players have NFI about the game plan. Don't get it, can't meet the expectations of the game-plan because it's aimed at the eutopian best version of ourselves and not for the present, or incremental enough for us to evolve with it to reach such a lofty destination. Cross
Adapting to change - can't say, but the biggest change we had this year was the holding the ball interpretation and we've been most impacted by it. I'll be nice and give him a non-assessment on that as that change was very incompatible with our list and game style.
Flexibility - only when forced with no other choice will he change things up from his blinkered view. Cross
I'd love to compare the list that Sayers and Cook and the committee had for selecting our coach, vs the same list GWS, Collingwood and Hawthorn etc had most recently for selecting their coach. You really get the feeling our selection was mainly based on a sell to members and the PC police.
What?
Many had the Saints going past us based on them making finals last year
How anyone can revisit "Ross is better than Voss" is bizarre
We have played poorly 2nd half of the year, sure, call that out, drill down as much as you want, but let's not get blinded by emotion
I don't think we even know what a good coach is at Carlton.
But this is what we have.
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Sayers told Voss, words to the effect, that “if you go, I’ll go with you”.Published yesterday
How Michael Voss has changed his methods and his methods have changed Carlton
The Blues coach will meet his old club, the Brisbane Lions, for the second time in a final, on Saturday night.
Interesting - Sayers is going next year or maybe earlier.
The club has sold the narrative about staying strong, ignoring the noise last year, "stronger together " etc. So many stories on our heroes journey about sticking fat. That will be the reason, there isn't much that happened on field to suggest we are heading in the right direction.
The reality is where our list is at its a big call to make a change unless you target one of the top coaches. Which is super unlikely imo.
gab213
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All of those things that you say to disregard make him a worse coach. The coach is meant to set standards off the football field as well as on it. He is the public face of the club.
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He won't get sacked this year... 0% chance of that happening.
But if things don't go well next year... it might make things difficult for him.
Saints list is far far worse than ours. He got them to finals last year (winning 13 games as we did), he won 11 games this year again with an ordinary list and injuries with tail end of the season showing how he's adapting.
Took StKilda to 3 GF's where the mighty Grant Thomas couldn't get them to, as well as giving Freo their most successful patch in history. Ross Lyon 15 years coaching with W/L 57.16%. Voss 8 years at 45.98%. Of all current coaches with 3 completed years coaching experience Voss is 2nd last with only Nicks behind him (once Mitchell finishes his 3rd year officially will also be behind him but could end up with a pre-lim or GF appearance).
gab213
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People need to get the idea of changing the coach out of their heads, it just won't happen, nor do I believe that it should. The club can focus on what it needs to. Look at the personnel around the coach and target a few good assistants. Get ready for the trade and draft periods, I'm expecting that we will have quite a few delistings.
