Mick Malthouse and his coaching record

[carsoutback]

Still not a bad record with 16 teams in the comp.

I agree. Very good < Pies, not bad overall.

 

[MarkT]

Journo’s are by and large gutless slaves. Few are prepared to get into a coach like Malthouse and unfortunately those that are are either just sensationalist attention seekers like Patrick Smith who likes to bang on about irrelevant off field matters and take the moral high ground rather than the actual problems that cause losses or they are Collingwood haters who are too easily dismissed like Caro and again they focus too much on the irrelevant off field issues like what Eddie said about this or that event.

Malthouse has an average record at best in a decade at Collingwood. Sure he has taken them to 2 grand finals and a prelim but not once has he looked at the losses and filled the holes in the list.

Malthouse is often said to do a good job with an ordinary list. Malthouse has a good batch of draft picks and over a decade so if he has an ordinary list he has failed the first and perhaps the most important test - that of building the list. Problem is, this has been obvious for at least 4 years and that is ignoring the calls from his previous club that he ran the list into the ground.

Thankfully Collingwood have invested into recruitment and development in recent years. Still the list didn’t win the flag yet again so it isn’t enough. Personally I think the list is under rated and the coach is over rated. Since MM has had less say in drafting and Hine has taken over from Judkins the list has steadily improved from the bottom up. The draft week has continued to be poor though with Medhurst the exception.

As for match coaching, it’s a mixed bag with MM. 2003 GF and last Saturday stand out as hallmark poor coaching performances. Credit to the opposition for playing well and forcing Collingwood to play poorly but where were the moves, where were the tactics, what was plan b? Just accepting that the opposition was too good is accepting losing and that isn’t acceptable. You have to look at what you lacked and address it. That just hasn’t happened.

I really think Collingwood aren’t that far away but we’ve been not that far away umpteen times. It’s time to raise the bar and the best place to start is with the coach who has failed to deliver.

Buckley is a risk. Malthouse is a safe option. I’d rather take the risk then know we won win a flag and I really don’t think MM will deliver a flag.

 

[recon]

The major problem with Malthouse is he wants to play his style of play at all times and it is a very physically taxing game style thats why we play so many flat games, sides with good key forwards will go well against us because he allows them so much space and refuses to stand our players in the backline to block leads.

 

[Nankervis brothers]

I think it is an issue of timing. I understand that Collingwood's list is due to hit its 'sweet spot' (as far as age, games played, experience, etc) in two or three season from now, and I doubt they would want to be changing coach when that occurs, as it seems to take a bit of time for teams to get used to a new game plan or approach. If malthouse were to go then perhaps now would be the best time?

 

[BLPC08]

Probably the most unpopular coach in the league, seeing him move on will certainly improve Collingwoods image and public perception.

 

[Hinkley29]

Journo’s are by and large gutless slaves. Few are prepared to get into a coach like Malthouse and unfortunately those that are are either just sensationalist attention seekers like Patrick Smith who likes to bang on about irrelevant off field matters and take the moral high ground rather than the actual problems that cause losses or they are Collingwood haters who are too easily dismissed like Caro and again they focus too much on the irrelevant off field issues like what Eddie said about this or that event.

Malthouse has an average record at best in a decade at Collingwood. Sure he has taken them to 2 grand finals and a prelim but not once has he looked at the losses and filled the holes in the list.

Malthouse is often said to do a good job with an ordinary list. Malthouse has a good batch of draft picks and over a decade so if he has an ordinary list he has failed the first and perhaps the most important test - that of building the list. Problem is, this has been obvious for at least 4 years and that is ignoring the calls from his previous club that he ran the list into the ground.

Thankfully Collingwood have invested into recruitment and development in recent years. Still the list didn’t win the flag yet again so it isn’t enough. Personally I think the list is under rated and the coach is over rated. Since MM has had less say in drafting and Hine has taken over from Judkins the list has steadily improved from the bottom up. The draft week has continued to be poor though with Medhurst the exception.

As for match coaching, it’s a mixed bag with MM. 2003 GF and last Saturday stand out as hallmark poor coaching performances. Credit to the opposition for playing well and forcing Collingwood to play poorly but where were the moves, where were the tactics, what was plan b? Just accepting that the opposition was too good is accepting losing and that isn’t acceptable. You have to look at what you lacked and address it. That just hasn’t happened.

I really think Collingwood aren’t that far away but we’ve been not that far away umpteen times. It’s time to raise the bar and the best place to start is with the coach who has failed to deliver.

Buckley is a risk. Malthouse is a safe option. I’d rather take the risk then know we won win a flag and I really don’t think MM will deliver a flag.

Let me start by saying that I am not a fan of Malthouse personally. He is the master of intimidation when criticised and he is probably one of the most paranoid people in footy.

Having said that, I am not sure that you can question his record at Collingwood. The posters saying that "he hasn't won a premiership at Collingwood therefore he has failed" need to ask themselves one question:

Which year since he has been at Collingwood should he have won the flag?

There is not 1 year since he has been at Collingwood that they have had the best list of players in the comp. They have rarely underachieved, and to be honest most years have played well above my expectations for them.

So it basically comes down to the fact that he has not had the players to win a flag. You may say that he has had 9 years to fix that, but how much input does a head coach actually have over drafting? He may tell his recruiters what type of players he wants, but I would doubt that head coaches would have the time to scout more than the best few young players in the country. And you don't build premiership winning lists in the 1st round of the draft, you build them by getting good players in the mid-late rounds. I would expect that MM (and most senior coaches) would have little to no knowledge or input into these mid round picks. That is what you have recruiting departments for.

The question of whether he is a good match day coach is another story altogether. I don't watch enough of Collingwoood to say if he is a reactive or proactive coach, but most times Geelong play Collingwood he seems to get the matchups and tactics right. We always seem to be reacting to what Collingwood do, rather than the other way around. And to me that is the sign of a good matchday coach.

I am not saying that MM should stay or go, Collingwood fans have a better idea about that than I would. Collingwood may need a new voice, or new ideas. But I don't think his record can really be questioned at Collingwood. IMO he has done a far better job as a coach at Collingwood than he did at the Eagles, where he should have won more than 2 flags with the list that he had.

 

[tess]

If Collingwood supporters weren't deceived into thinking they were the greatest football club in this fair land, they'd have every right to expect a fair bit more I reckon.

There in lies the real issue.

We have people posting on BB's like this that are paid employees of The Collingwood Football Club. They are here to rebut any negative post's or threads, most thinking pies posters, or as Robbo calls us Blogger's recognise them for what they are now.

 

[jod23]

Why does everyone just assume that Buckley will be an awesome coach? Great player, yes, but a dead cert to be head coach of Collingwood? A decent head coach of Collingwood?

 

[Jackey J]

Why does everyone just assume that Buckley will be an awesome coach? Great player, yes, but a dead cert to be head coach of Collingwood? A decent head coach of Collingwood?

Hopefully Buckley doesnt get the job after Mick. I quite like him as a commentator, one of my favs.

 

[serenityNow]

9 years is a long time. At a club like collingwood its too long to of not delivered success.

I dont see the Pies being the team that some predict will be a top 4 side in the next 3 years. A few sides are moving up the ladder now after rebuilding, and look to have stronger long term lists.

 

[Crow-mo]

Show me any other side that would keep a coach on for 9 years without a skerrick of success. 9 years!!!! Give me a break.

I suspect if you can't see that you have had a great deal of success in those 9 years, then it wouldn't matter what anyone shows you. its not the message that's the problem...

Malthouse has done brilliantly at the pies, however it doesn't matter who you are sometimes you need a change. fresh air. maybe that time is approaching, but these are golden years for you lot - something you've become a little too accustomed to given your record of success in the half century.

but if you think he has done enough, then you're just promoting the old collingwood supporter stereotype.

 

[Crow-mo]

When MM came out and bagged Ken Judge when he coached the Eagles (he and they were a soft target back then) KJ had a decent reply of "You only won two flags with the list you had."

Not sure if anyone agrees or not but it is worthwhile considering when looking at MM's entire career.

funny, because the WCE were a basketcase before Micky arrived.

something easily overlooked if you're 12, or like KJ possessing the intellect of a 12 yr old.

 

[FuManchu]

I suspect if you can't see that you have had a great deal of success in those 9 years, then it wouldn't matter what anyone shows you. its not the message that's the problem...

Malthouse has done brilliantly at the pies, however it doesn't matter who you are sometimes you need a change. fresh air. maybe that time is approaching, but these are golden years for you lot - something you've become a little too accustomed to given your record of success in the half century.

but if you think he has done enough, then you're just promoting the old collingwood supporter stereotype.

Golden years, well if you mean retirement, then yes, it should be his golden years.

Golden years also entails success, and that he hasnt delivered. No other club would give someone 9 years without winning flags. Matthews had 10 at brisbane was pushed after 3 flags.

9 years to get to the point where the game plan is flawed, the midfield and ruck divisions have never been addressed is negligence.

Sorry, time to go Mick, near enough is not good enough anymore.
How many more years of being therabouts will people tolerate before they start thinking 'mmmmm maybe it hasnt quite worked'??????????

 

[captain peanut]

9 years is a long time. At a club like collingwood its too long to of not delivered success.

I dont see the Pies being the team that some predict will be a top 4 side in the next 3 years. A few sides are moving up the ladder now after rebuilding, and look to have stronger long term lists.

i'm most interested to find out who these clubs are with stronger 'long term' lists than coll?

just a reminder of some of the 22yo and under brigade at coll right now - cloke thomas h shaw pendlebury obrien brown clarke goldsack mccarthy cox wellingham cook anthony dawes stanley reid rusling wood dick. Many have already had finals experience and played very well and the list already contains a b&f winner and runner up. pretty well placed i reckon

 

[tess]

i'm most interested to find out who these clubs are with stronger 'long term' lists than coll?

Long Term ....

How was our list in 2003 as the draft picks from 2000 and 2001 started to develop, yet come the third week of finals 2008 and we are sitting watching.


Long Term >>>>>>>>>

 

[MarkT]

Which year since he has been at Collingwood should he have won the flag?

Interesting question. It illustrates the main problem in a nutshell. To put it simply, if you have had all but a decade and not once should you have won the flag then you have failed as a coach. In fact you have failed to even get to the point of failing to deliver. After 2002 MM should have addressed the list deficiencies and delivered from there. Instead he cleared some players and replaced them with players that were no better while ignoring the actual problems of the ruck and midfield pace and footskills. These are still the deficiencies 6 years later.

The job isn't just about match day but even if it was his match days are inconsistent. When it all goes right he is a genius but when it doesn't he doesn't often turn it around. He has backed too many duds for too long and he has failed to address a weakeness in the ruck that is 10 years old. He started by swapping pick 3 for a bloke that wasn't tall enough and couldn't jump and on top of that was an ordinary footballer. That pick 3 went on to become Pavlich. The writing was on the wall then and there and since that time he has failed to appreciate what a quality ruckman is or what one can add. IMO it cost us the 2002 GF and killed any chance of being in the 2003 with any chance of winning. Then in 2006 we payed another price and in 2007 we were smashed by Ottens which IMO was the difference in the game.

I could go on, as Pies board posters will tell you to their annoyance, but the above is more than enough. 4 years more. Malthouse should have been sacked after the debacle of a game in Subi v Freo in 2005. That's when I finally made my mind up we would never win a flag under MM and at the end of the day that is his job.

 

[11sjw]

funny, because the WCE were a basketcase before Micky arrived.

something easily overlooked if you're 12, or like KJ possessing the intellect of a 12 yr old.

He also left them in a pretty dire state and then proceeded to try and tell his replacement how to do the job. I'm not a huge Ken Judge as a coach fan. However MM should've stuck to figuring out how to get the Pies to win something.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Mick has failed. 9 years without success and not even having a team considered as top 4 is a damning stat. It will get to 10 and 11 if he continues because the likes of Hawthorn and Geelong are miles in front.

He finds it hard to let go of his favourites and it works against him.

He's the best underdog and backs to the wall coach but that doesn't win you flags.

He's recycled more players then Sheedy but no one in the media has the balls to point that out to him. Morrison, Williams, Steinfort, Bryan are all bad choices.

The next month will give us the best indication of where Malthouse is at. He must trade Didak for picks or a quality inside mid. He needs to let go of Rocca, possibly for a late draft pick to the Dogs. Ben Johnson should also be gone. Rhyce Shaw is another. He needs to turnover about 8 players.

The Pies need to stock up on this draft and if they don't get 4-5 quality kids then they'll be looking at bottom 4 when the new teams come in.

 

[tess]

Mick has failed. 9 years without success and not even having a team considered as top 4 is a damning stat. It will get to 10 and 11 if he continues because the likes of Hawthorn and Geelong are miles in front.

He finds it hard to let go of his favourites and it works against him.

He's the best underdog and backs to the wall coach but that doesn't win you flags.

He's recycled more players then Sheedy but no one in the media has the balls to point that out to him. Morrison, Williams, Steinfort, Bryan are all bad choices.

The next month will give us the best indication of where Malthouse is at. He must trade Didak for picks or a quality inside mid. He needs to let go of Rocca, possibly for a late draft pick to the Dogs. Ben Johnson should also be gone. Rhyce Shaw is another. He needs to turnover about 8 players.

The Pies need to stock up on this draft and if they don't get 4-5 quality kids then they'll be looking at bottom 4 when the new teams come in.

The problem with the Media I think stems from the Eddie factor, who in the Melbourne Media would dare go up against Eddie?

Just yesterday I spoke on SEN's Mark Doran's program and was asked what I thought Mick might have been saying to the group in front of the camera's. MY answer was I hoped he was saying goodbye.... Doran and Robinson then pooh poohed me and when I asked what success MM has had since 1994 they stopped and went quiet for a second or two. Me doing that caused such a ruckus that posters on a Pies BB I cannot post on as Tess, created a thread with lies and innuendo to discredit my 30 seconds on air because I called for MM to stand down, and worse than that I dared to do it under my name Tess and I dared to do it publicly.

The whole spin effect Ed has created at Collingwood involves just about everything, from the move from Vic Park and the so called run down state it was in > ask the AFL Umps about how bad it wasn't, cost them a huge $300,000 to bring the rooms into 2008 < to how we have the greatest ever Coach in the history of the VFL/AFL coaching us to 6th place yet again.... and he has his foot soldiers working/spinning it for him as well.

 

[MarkT]

The next month will give us the best indication of where Malthouse is at. He must trade Didak for picks or a quality inside mid. He needs to let go of Rocca, possibly for a late draft pick to the Dogs. Ben Johnson should also be gone. Rhyce Shaw is another. He needs to turnover about 8 players.

Didak must stay. Rocca must stay (and Burns). Ben is definitely tradable. Collingwood need mids and letting go of Didak doesn’t make sense.

As for turnover, I make it about the same number. Wakelin and Lonie are gone. Toovey, Cook, Stanley, Iiles and Egan aren’t up to it although Egan is coming off a knee reco so maybe a reprieve is in order. Holland is on a knife’s edge. That 8. There are 2 rookie promotions. That means around 6 new players to come in one way or another.

The Pies need to stock up on this draft and if they don't get 4-5 quality kids then they'll be looking at bottom 4 when the new teams come in.

Rubbish. There are plenty of good kids on the list. There is some list fodder like at most clubs and hopefully that gets cleaned out this year but the overseas, NSW and rookie draft are supplementing Hine’s drafting quite well.

The problem with the list stems from MM’s initial years where he directed the draft toward fat arsed mids that didn’t make it and KP plodders on the back of letting a few good players go and in conjunction with trading for duds and WCE spuds. That hole is still evident in the 25 to 30 year olds and particularly the immediate leadership options. On top of that MM hasn’t addressed specific weaknesses that are and have been glaring. That has stopped the list being good enough to win a flag but as it stands now the youth is winning finals when most club’s youth is not making them. Young players all but filled the top 10 min the B&S last year when the club finished 4th.

The youth is far from the problem.

 

[That's deliberate]

Malthouse is a hack.

Afterall he has spent nearly all his life doing what he loves, is successful at what he does and has made squillions doing it.

His record is pathetic, has won premierships and taken teams to finals in almost every year he has coached.

Absolute dud if you ask me. He runs his club and makes decisions based on his own convictions rather then listening to the expert advise on football forums and the media.

I'd replace him with a novice who has no idea what he is doing in a heartbeat.

 

[Nathan Q Brown]

Malthouse is a hack.

Afterall he has spent nearly all his life doing what he loves, is successful at what he does and has made squillions doing it.

His record is pathetic, has won premierships and taken teams to finals in almost every year he has coached.

Absolute dud if you ask me. He runs his club and makes decisions based on his own convictions rather then listening to the expert advise on football forums and the media.

I'd replace him with a novice who has no idea what he is doing in a heartbeat.

agree - hasn't got a clue - making these young guys think they can beat tough opponents - who does he think he is?

 

[That's deliberate]

agree - hasn't got a clue - making these young guys think they can beat tough opponents - who does he think he is?

The guy really needs to take a good hard look at himself.

He has a young list that is going nowhere as evidenced by yet another finals appearance.

He needs to understand that he is a role model and as such needs to accept that he has to change his ways and not be a professional, succesfull individual who works hard and achieves his goals and get with the program and listen to experts on internet forums who have been there and done that and have climbed that mountain.

The guy really needs to go.

 

[Primetime Pricey]

The guy really needs to take a good hard look at himself.

He has a young list that is going nowhere as evidenced by yet another finals appearance.

He needs to understand that he is a role model and as such needs to accept that he has to change his ways and not be a professional, succesfull individual who works hard and achieves his goals and get with the program and listen to experts on internet forums who have been there and done that and have climbed that mountain.

The guy really needs to go.

this is some funny sh*t hahahahahaha

 

[Panna Witchy Salitou]

Mick's finished. He's had a good crack at it. He is a good coach, but the Pies must look to the future. Malthouse had the luxury of coaching the 2 of the most financially secure clubs in the league. He had success at one, and not the other. The club needs a breath of fresh air. We moved Sheeds on, and most couldn't believe we appointed Knights. But to be honest, I reckon Knights is on the right track. The Woods would be doing a good thing by appointing Buckley to the position. He's a great thinker of the game and would make a good coach.