Mick Malthouse and his coaching record

[FuManchu]

re:FuManchu

Agree that the recruiters are Mick's responsibility. Mick would obviously tell them what types of players to target but it would be up to the recruting team to go out and scout the best possible players at the positions Mick mentioned. The 6 players I mentioned were the players drafted during the Malthouse/Judkins era that were any good. However, since Hine has come to the club we have seen clear on field improvement and draftee talent (as I pointed out a couple of posts before).

K, you tell me, if after 2003 you would have been told we are not going to win a flag in the next 6 years and after that we want to give him another 2 years on top of that, what would you say?

what would any clubs supporters say?

No club would put up with it.

And even with the talent that we have got from the 2005 draft, why is he still persisting with that horrid game plan?

Why has he neglected the ruck division?

Why is our midfield still pedestrian after all this time?

Why didnt he see that in the space of 2 years our core of the backline would retire and plan for it way prior to this year. because our backline has gone from one of our strengths to being one of three obvious weak areas.

This is all his responsibility. yet supporters want to give him another 2 years. Give me a break. If he was a CEO of a top company, his name would have been forgotten by now, such would have been the length of time he would have already been gone.

He is not being held to account and supporters who are happy with near enough are adding to the mediocrity that he is engulfing the club in.

NEXT!!!!!

 

[JohnD]

btw - when Clarkson actually achieves ONE thing then feel free to use him as an example in your essays

Perhaps one such achievement is putting the Hawthorn list together from a very poor beginning and then getting this young group into a 2008 prelim.

Why is that an achievement ? Well, I don't read threads about his coaching record where brown and gold coloured lemmings need to throw themselves off cliffs defending him with hollow arguments such as "it's not his fault that the list isn't up to it".

This is Clarkson's 4th season in charge, and every season has been an improvement on the last. No, he hasn't won a flag with Hawthorn. However, if that's your only measure of achievement, then what's Malthouse achieved for Collingwood in more than twice that time ?

In his 9th season, Malthouse has a list that has Pie supporters at each others throats in disagreement over what to do about a leadership vacuum, a lack of midfield talent, an embarrassing game plan, and an ineffective ruck division in spite of all the evidence that this very deficiency denies success.

The magpie army would give anything to be playing in a prelim this weekend. Another wasted season has caused tremendous pain. The magpie army would give anything for its team to have the talent and depth of Clarkson's side in 2008. You wish your side was as good as the Hawks.

What has Clarkson achieved ? You reflect on what I've just described and you answer that for yourself.

 

[FuManchu]

Perhaps one such achievement is putting the Hawthorn list together from a very poor beginning and then getting this young group into a 2008 prelim.

Why is that an achievement ? Well, I don't read threads about his coaching record where brown and gold coloured lemmings need to throw themselves off cliffs defending him with hollow arguments such as "it's not his fault that the list isn't up to it".

This is Clarkson's 4th season in charge, and every season has been an improvement on the last. No, he hasn't won a flag with Hawthorn. However, if that's your only measure of achievement, then what's Malthouse achieved for Collingwood in more than twice that time ?

In his 9th season, Malthouse has a list that has Pie supporters at each others throats in disagreement over what to do about a leadership vacuum, a lack of midfield talent, an embarrassing game plan, and an ineffective ruck division in spite of all the evidence that this very deficiency denies success.

The magpie army would give anything to be playing in a prelim this weekend. Another wasted season has caused tremendous pain. The magpie army would give anything for its team to have the talent and depth of Clarkson's side in 2008. You wish your side was as good as the Hawks.

What has Clarkson achieved ? You reflect on what I've just described and you answer that for yourself.

A far simpler answer would be that Hawthorn currently are a far better team than Collingwood have been at any stage of Malthouse's tenure. Blind freddy could see that. Only some twerp with his head stuck up his clacker would refute that.

 

[JohnD]

Only some twerp with his head stuck up his clacker would refute that.

You know it's coming though Fu.

A far simpler answer would be that Hawthorn currently are a far better team than Collingwood have been at any stage of Malthouse's tenure. Blind freddy could see that.

Yeah, but where do you go from here ? It's pretty unfortunate timing to run into a brick wall with your list, given that most of the quality draft picks are heading north of the border in the immediate future.

Assuming the bullet gets bitten, and a new coach is appointed, what would you have him or her do with the list ?

 

[FuManchu]

You know it's coming though Fu.



Yeah, but where do you go from here ? It's pretty unfortunate timing to run into a brick wall with your list, given that most of the quality draft picks are heading north of the border in the immediate future.

Assuming the bullet gets bitten, and a new coach is appointed, what would you have him or her do with the list ?

Tell 'em to forget what malthouse brainwashed them to do. Run the lines, clear out the forward line, kick it to what is supposedly one of the new and upcoming best KPP forwards in Cloke when he is one out, not when he is having to contend with a jammed forward setup. Have the small forwards clear the area and ready to run into the space once the contest up forward looks like happening.

Other than that, if he has players that have foot speed, they need to rotate thru the centre because, at the moment we get killed there, I'd rather get killed there knowing at least they can run quick as opposed to getting killed there knowing they CANT run quick.

As for the Ruck, well, we are stuffed, Fraser is not a ruckmans ****hole. I tend to look at him as a moving witches hat at the centre bounce, you know you will beat him, its just that he will jump early into you early while you are beating him. Woods might come on, but there is a pretty good ruckman wanting to come back to Vic and he actually can ruck. Problem is he wants to go to carlton, but that means nothing in the cut and thrust of AFL drafting regs. Fraser, might actually find a better postion around the ground, rather than his pathetic attempts to pretend he can compete in that circle in the middle of the ground.

We need one more KPP backman at minimum.

In one way malthouse does have it right, its the ability to keep running and have fresh legs ready at all stages of the game. But to have a midfield for 9 years, that hasnt really had any legspeed in todays game, is negligence. To chip the ball around and allow your forward line to be flooded while you search for short marking options 20 metres up around the flanks is just predictable , frustrating and not going to impose yourself on any serious contender for too long.

 

[Lupton Warchild Pittman]

This is Clarkson's 4th season in charge, and every season has been an improvement on the last.

IMO it's easier for a coach to rise up the ladder compared to a coach keeping his side there or thereabouts. Clarkson is great tactically but most gameplans get worked out, I liken him to an early Rodney Eade.

As for our list hitting a brick wall, I'd strongly disagree. Saw somewhere that our win in Adelaide was the youngest side since Brisbane in 00' to win a final.

 

[FuManchu]

IMO it's easier for a coach to rise up the ladder compared to a coach keeping his side there or thereabouts. Clarkson is great tactically but most gameplans get worked out, I liken him to an early Rodney Eade.

As for our list hitting a brick wall, I'd strongly disagree. Saw somewhere that our win in Adelaide was the youngest side since Brisbane in 00' to win a final.

So, being what, 15th after 2005 isnt low enough?

 

[Pie eyed]

Perhaps one such achievement is putting the Hawthorn list together from a very poor beginning and then getting this young group into a 2008 prelim.

Why is that an achievement ? Well, I don't read threads about his coaching record where brown and gold coloured lemmings need to throw themselves off cliffs defending him with hollow arguments such as "it's not his fault that the list isn't up to it".

This is Clarkson's 4th season in charge, and every season has been an improvement on the last. No, he hasn't won a flag with Hawthorn. However, if that's your only measure of achievement, then what's Malthouse achieved for Collingwood in more than twice that time ?

In his 9th season, Malthouse has a list that has Pie supporters at each others throats in disagreement over what to do about a leadership vacuum, a lack of midfield talent, an embarrassing game plan, and an ineffective ruck division in spite of all the evidence that this very deficiency denies success.

The magpie army would give anything to be playing in a prelim this weekend. Another wasted season has caused tremendous pain. The magpie army would give anything for its team to have the talent and depth of Clarkson's side in 2008. You wish your side was as good as the Hawks.

What has Clarkson achieved ? You reflect on what I've just described and you answer that for yourself.

You give Collingwood another Buddy Franklin and see how we go then. Franklin is a once in a lifetime player....you can't just pick them up when you think you need one.....sorry it just does not happen.
The drafts are not full of Franklin's and Buckleys no matter what the media would have you believe. Hawthorn got Franklin because they were on the right place on the ladder at the right time....coach had nothing to do with it.

 

[Sausage roll]

Bottom line is it is all about winning flags and poor old Mick has had 14( yes thats an afl/vfl record!!) straight years without one.

FACT!

 

[SirJimi05]

Bottom line is it is all about winning flags and poor old Mick has had 14( yes thats an afl/vfl record!!) straight years without one.

FACT!

That is is the question i asked earlier in the thread.

My next question is how many AFL coaches have gone 14 straight years without a flag and not been sacked?

 

[Sausage roll]

That is is the question i asked earlier in the thread.

My next question is how many AFL coaches have gone 14 straight years without a flag and not been sacked?

Exactly.

He has everyone bluffed.

Is it two flags in 23 years??

Lucky for him the West Coast were a strong side in the 90's!

Yesterdays man

 

[JohnD]

Tell 'em to forget what malthouse brainwashed them to do. Run the lines, clear out the forward line, kick it to what is supposedly one of the new and upcoming best KPP forwards in Cloke when he is one out, not when he is having to contend with a jammed forward setup. Have the small forwards clear the area and ready to run into the space once the contest up forward looks like happening.

Other than that, if he has players that have foot speed, they need to rotate thru the centre because, at the moment we get killed there, I'd rather get killed there knowing at least they can run quick as opposed to getting killed there knowing they CANT run quick.

As for the Ruck, well, we are stuffed, Fraser is not a ruckmans ****hole. I tend to look at him as a moving witches hat at the centre bounce, you know you will beat him, its just that he will jump early into you early while you are beating him. Woods might come on, but there is a pretty good ruckman wanting to come back to Vic and he actually can ruck. Problem is he wants to go to carlton, but that means nothing in the cut and thrust of AFL drafting regs. Fraser, might actually find a better postion around the ground, rather than his pathetic attempts to pretend he can compete in that circle in the middle of the ground.

We need one more KPP backman at minimum.

In one way malthouse does have it right, its the ability to keep running and have fresh legs ready at all stages of the game. But to have a midfield for 9 years, that hasnt really had any legspeed in todays game, is negligence. To chip the ball around and allow your forward line to be flooded while you search for short marking options 20 metres up around the flanks is just predictable , frustrating and not going to impose yourself on any serious contender for too long.

You're one of a kind Fuey, I'll give you that.

When your BF compadres are pissing their pants trying to defend his record, you've got the bottle to look to the issues. Credit where credit is due.

The gameplan deficiencies are the most frustrating thing for me as a neutral observer watching Collingwood games (not against Hawthorn, anyway). It's almost like Mick acknowledges he hasn't got the squad to be competative, so he relies on a gameplan that avoids all his major deficiencies being exposed. Trouble is it leaves little option but to transfer the ball very wide and try to pinpoint targets leading from central areas into the pockets and flanks. Sure, you don't get exposed trying to run the ball through the middle and you don't get exposed for talent delivering the ball directly to key forwards (where your one real strength - skilled crumbing forwards - can pounce on any spills in dangerous positions); however, it leaves the team playing a style that won't win anything and a style that denies the development into something that will.

I agree with your sentiment that you've got to throw your most likely effective mids into the middle, and then go from there. If that means that Thomas, Didak, Davis etc have to develop a more contested style of football to compete in the packs for the good of the side as part of the midfield rotation, then get 'em in there. By compete, I don't mean cheating goalside either. At least with those blokes if you can turn 'em around (well, not Davis, he's got plenty of ticker) there's a chance they'll be able to use it if they back themselves to hit targets. If that means you lose half-forward flank goal kicking options, it'll be a price worth paying for getting more effective midfield possession and for straightening a team up that shouldn't be looking for its half-forward flankers to kick a winning score in the first place.

I agree with your ruck proposal too. I'd be expecting Fraser to earn a spot as a third tall and accepting the short-term pain for the long-term gain. Get Cam Wood as much ruck time as possible, as he's your most likely looking type. I'd be moving heaven and earth for Warnock too. Perhaps Fraser to take some ruck minutes here and there, and perhaps contest in F50 situations to give the young bloke a chop-out ... however, Fraser ain't the solution so there's no point pretending any longer that he is.

I can't see it being an easy road from here for the Pies. Having Buckley in the wings might be a good thing as not only will he add to the likelihood of a "hard decision" being made, but he'll have more licence and control if he does take over than an outsider would. The other option that might have merit is Port's Mark Williams. He'd do it in a flash - coach Collingwood. Furthermore, he'd only sign with conditions such as not having a recruiting officer tell him who his squad is going to be and not having players decide what behavioural standards are acceptable. I doubt Buckley would cop that either FWIW.

 

[RockyBalboa]

Bottom line is it is all about winning flags and poor old Mick has had 14( yes thats an afl/vfl record!!) straight years without one.

FACT!

I hadn't thought of his record in those terms.

Very interesting that someone who has lost 14 years straight can basically never be questioned and earn half a mill per year.

 

[JohnD]

I hadn't thought of his record in those terms.

Very interesting that someone who has lost 14 years straight can basically never be questioned and earn half a mill per year.

Especially when Mick's fans point out that a bloke with as impressive an early record as Clarkson has "has achieved nothing".

 

[Nathan Q Brown]

Especially when Mick's fans point out that a bloke with as impressive an early record as Clarkson has "has achieved nothing".

clarko 14-11-6 mind blowing

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Is it two flags in 23 years??

With sixteen teams in the competition, thats above average.

How many years have Wallace and Eade coached for one GF appearance alone between them?

 

[Panna Witchy Salitou]

If Geelong had enough money at the time, they would have sacked Bomber Thompson at the end of 2006. Funny how things turn out sometimes....

And what I mean by that, is that Bomber Thompson would have been on the coaching scrapheap and gone down as a failure instead of the pending greatness about to come his way. Sometimes, there's a fine line.

Stoinker!

 

[JohnD]

clarko 14-11-6 mind blowing

24.10.154 > 13.11.89

17.14.116 > 8.14.62

:d

 

[Black Ball]

If Geelong had enough money at the time, they would have sacked Bomber Thompson at the end of 2006. Funny how things turn out sometimes....

And what I mean by that, is that Bomber Thompson would have been on the coaching scrapheap and gone down as a failure instead of the pending greatness about to come his way. Sometimes, there's a fine line.

Stoinker!

Very very true and I wonder how often that comes back to haunt those who wanted to gas him?

 

[FuManchu]

I hadn't thought of his record in those terms.

Very interesting that someone who has lost 14 years straight can basically never be questioned and earn half a mill per year.

half a mill????? Try 800 large +, which makes his lack of success even more laughable

 

[Crow-mo]

I'm saying if you have a coach for 9 years, you would only keep him on that long if he had won a flag or two or three. Malthouse hasnt. He is only there ultimately for one reason to coach the team to a flag.

agreed, he is there to win a flag but equally in the NEW era of equalisation that is not always possible. in this day and age, you have to be right in the thick of things and then get a touch of luck.

an ounce of luck and you are 2002 and 2007 premiers - which given where you were in 1999 before he took over counts for something.

Ah yes, once again the delusion of matching up well with Geelong. Forget Geelong, what is Malthouse's game plan against a team with a dynamic tall player Like Riewoldt and Franklin? Why did Malthouse leave Brown on Riewoldt the other night for so long? What did Malthouse do to stop the crowded forward line when it is so obvious that St Kilda and even Carlton just push back into it to stifle any marking opportunities? Did he even consider trying to break the lines thru the middle? No, not Malthouse, possesion up the flanks at all costs.

here's the problem with this fantasy that the matchup with geelong are irrelevant. it ignores the fact that you were in the prelim to begin with!!!!!

how many options do you think had against St Kilda. you have an average list missing 4 or 5 first team players.

You might think coaches are there to do a whole range of things, but if after 9 years they have failed to get what everyone expects of them: A FLAG, then that is failure. No matter what else they have done, a flag is the bottom line of any lengthy tenure.

1. again you ignore the era of equalisation
2. you have had many flags in 50 years?

it might be inconvenient to acknowlege this, but ignoring these facts won't make them go away.

 

[Crow-mo]

winning a flag( times two as he did) gives you a lot of currency for a long period of time.
He is now entering his 15th year in a row without a flag( afl/vfl record-well done!!) and has had some 8 years to build the collingwood list to win a flag. He has failed.

15 years is a long time to be coaching without a flag and to keep presenting yourslef as the "godfather" of all things football.

teenage naivety.

utter nonsense

 

[Crow-mo]

I know alot about WC history and what he said is pretty spot on.

Be honest, your 14 aren't you ? maybe get Dad to check your posts before you submit

what a freaking idiot you are. though I caught you out pretending only a few days ago I remember.

if you knew anything about the WCE you'd know they were bankrupt and finished just off the bottom when Micky took over.

why don't you tell us all about indian pacific then?

please, I am all ears. and bets of all, doubt that google will help you

 

[Crow-mo]

Absolutely. He was identified as having ability at the Bulldogs, then came here and inherited an absolute pearler of a list

geez I hate people who revise history to cover up for a lakc of understanding on their own part. Why don't you tell us all about the Ron Alexander and John Todd all stars?

c'mon no excuses, what position on the ladder were you when Micky took over?

 

[Crow-mo]

Exactly.

He has everyone bluffed.

Is it two flags in 23 years??

Lucky for him the West Coast were a strong side in the 90's!

Yesterdays man

he has everyone bluffed or maybe you don't have a clue?

I wonder which is more likely?