Opinion Mick Malthouse

[Gone Critical]

Mod trolls disguising themselves as concerned supporters.

Wouldn't claim to be a concerned supporter of Carlton. Can't not be interested because of our history together. Interested to hear what you disagree with.

 

[mediumsizered]

You can't tell me that you didn't have an internal groan when you heard Wood and Warnock were both playing. The rest of the players are only human, I could understand it if they'd feel a touch of dread when they heard the news too. The combination immediately put us at an undeniable disadvantage around the ground.

If this was to happen, then we would know that we don't have a cohesive playing group & we are in even more strife than we first thought.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

If this was to happen, then we would know that we don't have a cohesive playing group & we are in even more strife than we first thought.

You don't think the boys want the players out on the ground that will give them the best possible chance of winning?

 

[__Bobcat__]

And there you have it Cohesion!!!
personally,I Dont think We have a shred of it!

 

[__Bobcat__]

Oh for God's sake.

If the players had a problem with Knockers and Wood in the same team, that's an indictment on them and their character, not Mick.

The Mick Out brigade really are using the flimsiest excuse to bash Mick.

He deserves better (from the fanbase and the media)

When we finish next season 4-18 under a new coach, we'll hear the predictable 'why did we sakc Mick' back peddling.

You can Sake the lord as much as you like!!!!!


Only the good lord would know why they/him made a selection like that!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Navy Cream]

Can anyone find stats on MM coached teams and their Tackle count averages? Or one for when Carlton was a force, our tackle counts! One thing I have noticed for a long time is how poorly we are at tackling.

 

[mediumsizered]

I think that is a very good and salient point JustaBattler .

MM was not bought to the club to rebuild at all , it was to move us up to top 4. The prevailing wisdom at the time was we were only a top-up player and a good coach away from being a real contender. Clearly those who made that decision have been shown to be totally out of touch.

Spot on. I argued at the time that it was the quality of our playing list, not the coach which was the problem. I particularly noted that those who thought Malthouse was going to take us that next step to win a premiership were overrating our playing list. As we know, so much faith had been placed in the playing list by Ratts & the Football Department, most players had been tied up on minimum 2 year contracts (including some very ordinary players), leading to us having little wriggle room in the 2012 trading period & only having the minimum 3 draft picks in that year's National Draft.

The reality is we previously started a rebuild in 2005 & peaked in 2011. Unfortunately not every rebuild yields a premiership, just ask the Saints, or even the Crows, who are now on their second rebuild. It took Collingwood two rebuilds to finally succeed in 2010.

Our latest rebuild has barely started (the addition of the likes of Cripps, Menzel, Jaksch, Docherty, Whiley etc is the starting point) & those running our club now have to ask themselves if they want Malthouse to continue what he has started, or take a step back & get another coach to start the rebuild from 2016, because any new coach will potentially have a different view to Malthouse on what type of players will be part of their rebuild. Either way, what we are currently seeing is a playing list which is in transition & performing accordingly. Anyone that thinks another change in coach is going to guarantee improvement needs to heed the lessons learned after the axing of Ratts.

 

[sweetchoif]

Key issue for me is is there a better coach candidate to rebuild to challenge for a flag and unless Roos, Bomber or Clarkson is available the answer is no. Mick has done this for Footscray, West Coast and Collingwood (x2).

He is the best candidate available unless he has lost the players.

With the exception of Leigh Matthews, can someone please give me an example in the last 25 years where head hunting a seasoned coach has resulted in immediate premiership success?

This flawed strategy and thinking of transplanting a coach into a club with expectation of instant premierships is what has caused half our problems over the past decades

 

[DaVillaBlues]

You can Sake the lord as much as you like!!!!!


Only the good lord would know why they/him made a selection like that!!!!!!!!!!!

Selecting Knockers wasn't really a factor in the players not bothering to chase, tackle, hit a target, and all the other intangibles of a giid football team on Friday night .. If it was, the players should be ashamed of themselves..

Reckon its a bit mischievous of you to lay all that on Warnock and Mick ..
Casboult had to be dropped, no one who had been kicking as badly as him had to remain in the seniors. Levi really needs to work harder on his goal, or he will be shown the door.

Vent/Criticize Mick all you want, but the fundamental problems at our club won't go away if Mick's sacked next week, in fact it would exasperate ten fold ..

 

[AceAndy]

Can anyone find stats on MM coached teams and their Tackle count averages? Or one for when Carlton was a force, our tackle counts! One thing I have noticed for a long time is how poorly we are at tackling.

Certainly been a bug-bear of mine for some time.

Not only do we have generally poor technique and are easily brushed off by the opposition but there is this corralling strategy that the players have been taught. Get sick of seeing players trying to corrall the ball carrier rather than apply some pressure , really grinds my gears

 

[__Bobcat__]

Selecting Knockers wasn't really a factor in the players not bothering to chase, tackle, hit a target, and all the other intangibles of a giid football team on Friday night .. If it was, the players should be ashamed of themselves..

Reckon its a bit mischievous of you to lay all that on Warnock and Mick ..
Casboult had to be dropped, no one who had been kicking as badly as him had to remain in the seniors. Levi really needs to work harder on his goal, or he will be shown the door.

Vent/Criticize Mick all you want, but the fundamental problems at our club won't go away if Mick's sacked next week, in fact it would exasperate ten fold ..

Did Mick Drop Cloke all those years ago when Cloke was having a bad run with goal Kicking..
Dont think so. pretty sure he stuck with him.

Even if he didnt play Cas, he should have played Watson..

What sort of message is that to send to your Young KPF's, Both Warnock And Wood are better than you both!!!!!!

Please!!!

 

[JustaBattler]

Malthouse applied for the job - and no doubt wa complicit in Rattens exit.

Say whatever you want to say - but Malthouse came in to Carlton yelling to all and sundry that he was the man to take us upwards.....

If people want an accountable culture to exist at Carlton HQ - then make Malthouse accountable for a false and misleading contract...

I hated Roos for saying it at the time - but Carlton's list was back then according him in need of a massive rebuild ...he didn't accept the offer...he was honest to his own convictions...which maybe turned out to be too true...

Malthouse came in on one set of promises and then morphed them into a problems with culture...then list...and now he is tying t parlay that set of changes into a new mandate to continue..who is to say Malthouse will ever deliver?

So then you end up asking yourself...all things being equal and it takes 7-10 years to get the next flag - including at least 3 in contention..

Does Malthouse have the energy to go another 8 years? He'd be close to 70! An affirmative - that would be a preposterous assertion for anyone to make...

Everyone now acknowledges just how weak the Carlton list in terms of top4 contention..now add years required t get there...now think about continuity of coaching...Malthouse is too old for the very job he has created and is now applying for...

Malthouse is playing for Malthouse...he is calculated in the way he keeps media interest up in Malthouse- free marketing for his Brand...

makes me laugh - really does.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

Did Mick Drop Cloke all those years ago when Cloke was having a bad run with goal Kicking..
Dont think so. pretty sure he stuck with him.

Even if he didnt play Cas, he should have played Watson..

What sort of message is that to send to your Young KPF's, Both Warnock And Wood are better than you both!!!!!!

Please!!!

Look, Warnock was a late inclusion in for Jamo, I can't recall who the other emergencies were . Our midfields and backline were deplorable on Friday night (bar Murphy and Cripps)

I doubt Watto in instead of Warnock would have made much difference the way normally good users of the ball like Simmo and Gibbs butchered it against the Pies. Your frustration is very understandable, but your anger and finger pointing is misplaced mate. Last friday's horror show is absolutely, irrefutably, ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY PERCENT on the players. Should have been a night of celebrations for Mick, soured by a group of timid, lazy bunch of footballers masquerading as Scouts lost at a Jamboree camp.

 

[Blue Pulse]

Sorry to intrude but this issue is of interest to many. MM was a great coach. Like most great coaches of the modern era he seems to have gone to the well once to often and is past it. The difference for mine between Mick at Collingwood and Carlton is Brad Scott, Guy McKenna, Scott Waters, Mark Neeld, Nathan Buckley v Rob Wiley, Dean Laidley, John Barker, Brad Green, David Buttifant etc.

Micks final years at Collingwood were littered by dynamic young cutting edge assistants. Guys who may not have made great senior coaches were at least recognised as excellent assistants who were modern in outlook and complimented Mick. His team at Carlton smacks of Dads army and a desire to prove his ideas are timeless. Getting Buttifant when Collingwood had deemed that his ideas had become outdated smacked further of this.

Sorry but we need your team to be better for the strength of the competition. As hard as it is for me to say that. You administration has been stuck in yesterday for too long and I reckon Mick and the "old" team he has bought with him just perpetuates that.

Simply he needs to go. It's not the whole answer of course but it is the start.

Find it hard to argue any of that

 

[DaVillaBlues]

Malthouse applied for the job - and no doubt wa complicit in Rattens exit.

Say whatever you want to say - but Malthouse came in to Carlton yelling to all and sundry that he was the man to take us upwards.....

If people want an accountable culture to exist at Carlton HQ - then make Malthouse accountable for a false and misleading contract...

I hated Roos for saying it at the time - but Carlton's list was back then according him in need of a massive rebuild ...he didn't accept the offer...he was honest to his own convictions...which maybe turned out to be too true...

Malthouse came in on one set of promises and then morphed them into a problems with culture...then list...and now he is tying t parlay that set of changes into a new mandate to continue..who is to say Malthouse will ever deliver?

So then you end up asking yourself...all things being equal and it takes 7-10 years to get the next flag - including at least 3 in contention..

Does Malthouse have the energy to go another 8 years? He'd be close to 70! An affirmative - that would be a preposterous assertion for anyone to make...

Everyone now acknowledges just how weak the Carlton list in terms of top4 contention..now add years required t get there...now think about continuity of coaching...Malthouse is too old for the very job he has created and is now applying for...

Malthouse is playing for Malthouse...he is calculated in the way he keeps media interest up in Malthouse- free marketing for his Brand...

makes me laugh - really does.

What a vindictive, factually incorrect, and ageist post that is ..

The Pokies King was the one who 'white-anted' Ratten, not Mick, and what the hell has his age got to do with it ? Mick's gonna be 70 in 8-9 years or so, so lets cart him off to a nursing home now ? What offensive crap.

Older Australians (of Mick's age and above) are being marginalized in society these days, criticize Mick's attitude, coaching methods or recruiting all you want, but bringing his age into as a reason to sack him, is discrimination, pure and simple.

I'm 35, and I've always been taught/raised to respect my elders. There are plenty of legit reasons to criticize Mick, but his age has nothing to do with it ..

 

[AceAndy]

Sorry to intrude but this issue is of interest to many. MM was a great coach. Like most great coaches of the modern era he seems to have gone to the well once to often and is past it. The difference for mine between Mick at Collingwood and Carlton is Brad Scott, Guy McKenna, Scott Waters, Mark Neeld, Nathan Buckley v Rob Wiley, Dean Laidley, John Barker, Brad Green, David Buttifant etc.

Micks final years at Collingwood were littered by dynamic young cutting edge assistants. Guys who may not have made great senior coaches were at least recognised as excellent assistants who were modern in outlook and complimented Mick. His team at Carlton smacks of Dads army and a desire to prove his ideas are timeless. Getting Buttifant when Collingwood had deemed that his ideas had become outdated smacked further of this.

Sorry but we need your team to be better for the strength of the competition. As hard as it is for me to say that. You administration has been stuck in yesterday for too long and I reckon Mick and the "old" team he has bought with him just perpetuates that.

Simply he needs to go. It's not the whole answer of course but it is the start.

I thought I had read that in the early days at Collingwood there was a significant turnover of the list , would that be correct Gone Critical ?

Any recollections as to how supporters felt about the early Malthouse years ?

 

[mediumsizered]

You don't think the boys want the players out on the ground that will give them the best possible chance of winning?

No, I would like to think that they would be happy to play with everyone of the 44 players on the playing list.

If the players are going into a game with the mindset that they would prefer that player A was selected instead of player B, then they are totally unprofessional & will not achieve any success at all & I am not sure what they are doing on an AFL list. In fact, this is the sort of behaviour I saw with school footy teams.

 

[__Bobcat__]

Look, Warnock was a late inclusion in for Jamo, I can't recall who the other emergencies were . Our midfields and backline were deplorable on Friday night (bar Murphy and Cripps)

I doubt Watto in instead of Warnock would have made much difference the way normally good users of the ball like Simmo and Gibbs butchered it against the Pies. Your frustration is very understandable, but your anger and finger pointing is misplaced mate. Last friday's horror show is absolutely, irrefutably, ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY PERCENT on the players. Should have been a night of celebrations for Mick, soured by a group of timid, lazy bunch of footballers masquerading as Scouts lost at a Jamboree camp.

Im not Angry nor am i finger pointing,


I too was excited to have MM on board when he first joined the club,
However i have noticed over time that he isnt a very good game day coach. He dosent appear to have a Plan B, or C when teams get on a roll against us.
The latest example would be Josh Kennedy Kicking Ten goals against us..
Why on Hell did he wait until Kennedy had eight on the board before moving Henderson on to him.
By that stage i think he had almost single handedly personaly kicked the same as our whole Team.

The Player's are given game day roles for sure. The Coach Also needs to be on top of any such swings on the game.
Why is he so stubborn about his game plan, is it because it won him A Grand Final, A plan that worked with a completley Different Team.

If The players cant stick to the Game plan then there out.
Well Hello Mick, The game Plan aint working,,
And i think he is Losing the Players Because Of It....

When you start losing the players, Youve lost Cohesion,

 

[Feva]

Look, Warnock was a late inclusion in for Jamo, I can't recall who the other emergencies were . Our midfields and backline were deplorable on Friday night (bar Murphy and Cripps)

I doubt Watto in instead of Warnock would have made much difference the way normally good users of the ball like Simmo and Gibbs butchered it against the Pies. Your frustration is very understandable, but your anger and finger pointing is misplaced mate. Last friday's horror show is absolutely, irrefutably, ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY PERCENT on the players. Should have been a night of celebrations for Mick, soured by a group of timid, lazy bunch of footballers masquerading as Scouts lost at a Jamboree camp.

Dont disagree with what youre saying about players being responsible, but how often do we get it wrong at selection. And what effect is it having on some players that should be in the team but arent.

- Warnock should not have played ahead of Casboult
- Whiley should not get a game ahead of Graham at this stage

Thats just two examples this year. Plenty more over last couple of seasons.

If Graham does not get 3-4 games in the senior team starting next Sunday, we have lost the plot

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

What a vindictive, factually incorrect, and ageist post that is ..

The Pokies King was the one who 'white-anted' Ratten, not Mick, and what the hell has his age got to do with it ? Mick's gonna be 70 in 8-9 years or so, so lets cart him off to a nursing home now ? What offensive crap.

Older Australians (of Mick's age and above) are being marginalized in society these days, criticize Mick's attitude, coaching methods or recruiting all you want, but bringing his age into as a reason to sack him, is discrimination, pure and simple.

I'm 35, and I've always been taught/raised to respect my elders. There are plenty of legit reasons to criticize Mick, but his age has nothing to do with it ..

Your belligerent posting is becoming tiresome.

 

[Feva]

I too was excited to have MM on board when he first joined the club,
However i have noticed over time that he isnt a very good game day coach. He dosent appear to have a Plan B, or C when teams get on a roll against us.
The latest example would be Josh Kennedy Kicking Ten goals against us..
Why on Hell did he wait until Kennedy had eight on the board before moving Henderson on to him.
By that stage i think he had almost single handedly personaly kicked the same as our whole Team.

The Player's are given game day roles for sure. The Coach Also needs to be on top of any such swings on the game.
Why is he so stubborn about his game plan, is it because it won him A Grand Final, A plan that worked with a completley Different Team.

If The players cant stick to the Game plan then there out.
Well Hello Mick, The game Plan aint working,,
And i think he is Losing the Players Because Of It....

When you start losing the players, Youve lost Cohesion,

Exactly! Key word ... stubborn!

Stubborn in not playing some players that should
Stubborn in not dropping some players that he should
Stubborn in letting players go that he shouldnt
Stubborn in sticking to his outdated game plan
Stubborn on game day in making a move eg Kennedy example and leaving Yarran in back pocket against Essendon*
Stubborn in using post match excuses like he did post Eagles game

 

[__Bobcat__]

Dont disagree with what youre saying about players being responsible, but how often do we get it wrong at selection. And what effect is it having on some players that should be in the team but arent.

- Warnock should not have played ahead of Casboult
- Whiley should not get a game ahead of Graham at this stage

Thats just two examples this year. Plenty more over last couple of seasons.

If Graham does not get 3-4 games in the senior team starting next Sunday, we have lost the plot

And there also the Tagging tatics,
The negativity.

One of the Scott brothers, The Roo's Coach. Mentioned the other Night , That Tagging has run its course in the game.
Sending players out from the first Bounce with a negative Mind set!!!
Dont let your opponent get A TOUCH!!

 

[Blue Pulse]

Look, Warnock was a late inclusion in for Jamo, I can't recall who the other emergencies were . Our midfields and backline were deplorable on Friday night (bar Murphy and Cripps)

I doubt Watto in instead of Warnock would have made much difference the way normally good users of the ball like Simmo and Gibbs butchered it against the Pies. Your frustration is very understandable, but your anger and finger pointing is misplaced mate. Last friday's horror show is absolutely, irrefutably, ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY PERCENT on the players. Should have been a night of celebrations for Mick, soured by a group of timid, lazy bunch of footballers masquerading as Scouts lost at a Jamboree camp.

DVB, alot of things just don't make sense, MM appears to be more of a mentor than a coach at the moment and I hope the players are getting clearer messages than the public.

Logic would tell you Jamo out another KPP in not a ruckman.

The mental strength of this group has been suspect for years even under Ratten, if MM is finding this out now he is a slow learner, but I don't think so. I can't pick up a game plan at the moment, in fact I am embarrassed by our forward entries and delivery to our forwards and our kick ins are just a joke. Surely we practice this at training?

I don't mind MM but I think he has to pull some new card tricks to save his butt, right or wrong I really don't know but it looks like he has lost the players, a loss next week would stamp his papers.

What I would love to see next week is for him to make a statement, drop Gibbs, he has been embarrassing to himself and the jumper. He is playing like he is getting a local to his kicking foot because his kicking has been worse than Casboult's. Let him find some form in the VFL

 

[Gavstar]

With the exception of Leigh Matthews, can someone please give me an example in the last 25 years where head hunting a seasoned coach has resulted in immediate premiership success?

This flawed strategy and thinking of transplanting a coach into a club with expectation of instant premierships is what has caused half our problems over the past decades

Malthouse took Footscray to 2nd in year 2

Malthouse took West Coast to Grand Final in 1991 (Year 2) premierships in 1992 & 1994

Malthouse took Pies to GF's 2002-2003 (Years 2-3) bottomed out (13 & 15) and then back into the finals.

Malthouse couldn't do it for the Blues in the last couple of years, no coach could.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

DVB, alot of things just don't make sense, MM appears to be more of a mentor than a coach at the moment and I hope the players are getting clearer messages than the public.

Logic would tell you Jamo out another KPP in not a ruckman.

The mental strength of this group has been suspect for years even under Ratten, if MM is finding this out now he is a slow learner, but I don't think so. I can't pick up a game plan at the moment, in fact I am embarrassed by our forward entries and delivery to our forwards and our kick ins are just a joke. Surely we practice this at training?

I don't mind MM but I think he has to pull some new card tricks to save his butt, right or wrong I really don't know but it looks like he has lost the players, a loss next week would stamp his papers.

What I would love to see next week is for him to make a statement, drop Gibbs, he has been embarrassing to himself and the jumper. He is playing like he is getting a local to his kicking foot because his kicking has been worse than Casboult's. Let him find some form in the VFL

Look, the footy industry and logic dictates that Mick is almost certainly going to be replaced at the end of the year .. However there are things at our footy club that have been wrong for a long time. The club sacked Ratts probably for the wrong reasons (Mathieson and his toxic influence) and I do like to believe that Mick felt he took the job for the right reasons (still had fire in the belly)

I do feel that there are contributing factors to where we are now that are beyond Mick's control.

I don't want to repeat my earlier points and sound like a broken record, but everyone at this club should be on notice at season's end.

Its a cliche, but we just got to take things one week at a time. We got Brisbane this week, probably without Hendo. Bit sick of all the political and coaching furore at our club right now. Our list probably isn't as bad shape as it seems, hopefully Nicky G and Watto get a call up this week. Gibbs stays for at least another week, got a feeling Curnow is the senior player who'll get dropped.

I think the problem with our game plan right now is that we haven't got the players who have the foot skills to execute the 'kick it to the boundary' so I agree Mick does need to adjust/tinker with the game plan to suit the skill level of our players more aptly.