thylacine60
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One of these posts is not like the other one....
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AFLW 2024 - Round 6 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Opinion Mick Malthouse
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It will be interesting if M.M. thinks like you ,I personally believe he will be either traded or delisted.I hope I am wrong and he becomes a good servant of the club ,but apart from being a good kick,I cant see what else he has to offer
- Aug 16, 2009
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Que?
- Nov 14, 2012
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Franklin says hi so shhhh
I started writing this post in a response to the Swans article about Malthouse (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...-team-ever-mick-malthouse-20140710-zt2jz.html), but it became long enough that I felt it appropriate to bring here. Get yourself a tea, as this is a reasonably long one - and it's from the heart.
Let me first state, I am a massive fan of Malthouse, and even though results have been disappointing (losing to GWS, Melbourne, Brisbane, Richmond etc, has hurt immensely), the signs we have shown only reinforce my belief that he is the man.
He constantly harps on about 'the process' 'the process' 'the process'. People get sick of this, because we're all flogs who read one article a day and get worked up for 5 minutes about it. The reality is, for our playing group, this is their full-time job, and for any elite athletes, installing effective processes and being relentless with how you adhere to them is a prelude to success. It's by nature repetitious, which is why when people see us losing games and focus so closely on the present, they think he's full of shit and get frustrated. But the state of our list, and the structures and style of game they were acquainted with, and the discipline they had, necessitated massive change. Anyone who expected us to make finals last year and this year is an optimist (myself included) and that's OK - you can be disappointed, because we were wrong, and Mick was wrong initially too. But anyone who then points the finger at Mick as a failure is an absolute fool, and I kindly ask you to log out, turn off your computer, unplug it from the wall, drive to a river embankment and hurl it in the Yarra, because you are misinformed and you shouldn't be airing your incorrect, uneducated views on any forum, even one as open and free as this. SUCCESS TAKES TIME! And if you blindly cling to the thought that our list is great or that Mick (or anyone, short of Gandalf himself) could have instantaneously implemented and drilled in not only a new game plan, but a whole philosophy on how players need to play football, then you are kidding yourself. Phew, glad I've said that.
In any case, even though results have largely gone against us, if you really look closely and skip the angry pills for one day, you can see the pieces he has assembled and the game plan he has implemented coming together. Our ball movement has looked terrible for most of this year (and I think this has led to the most frustration - we can hold sides reasonably well, which has been a rarity for Carlton sides in the last decade, but we never feel like we're a chance of winning because of how toothless we are offensively) but in the last few weeks the players actually seem to be waking up to the structures they need to adhere to and as a result we are showing some attacking potency.
In addition to that, our defensive play, our physicality and our proficiency in contested situations is much improved. IMO Malthouse set out to instil these first, as complete non-negotiables - the cornerstone of the side - and now that the players are buying in and executing to a better level, they are also picking up the offensive side of his philosophy. That's how the best sides do it - you begin with a focus on a defensive, physical & combative mindset first, and by doing this you have the capability to compete at all times, in all 4 quarters, whatever the margin. The reason for this is that sometimes your attacking game might not work... some players might be out of sorts, not clunking marks, etc. It happens. But you can always control effort and defensive tenacity, and that is what Mick is instilling, and that is what will keep us competitive on days even when we aren't playing slick football. The flashy, fancy stuff will flow from here, particularly when more players develop/are recruited who have those all important traits such as composure & sound disposal. Bakc Malthouse!
Let me first state, I am a massive fan of Malthouse, and even though results have been disappointing (losing to GWS, Melbourne, Brisbane, Richmond etc, has hurt immensely), the signs we have shown only reinforce my belief that he is the man.
He constantly harps on about 'the process' 'the process' 'the process'. People get sick of this, because we're all flogs who read one article a day and get worked up for 5 minutes about it. The reality is, for our playing group, this is their full-time job, and for any elite athletes, installing effective processes and being relentless with how you adhere to them is a prelude to success. It's by nature repetitious, which is why when people see us losing games and focus so closely on the present, they think he's full of shit and get frustrated. But the state of our list, and the structures and style of game they were acquainted with, and the discipline they had, necessitated massive change. Anyone who expected us to make finals last year and this year is an optimist (myself included) and that's OK - you can be disappointed, because we were wrong, and Mick was wrong initially too. But anyone who then points the finger at Mick as a failure is an absolute fool, and I kindly ask you to log out, turn off your computer, unplug it from the wall, drive to a river embankment and hurl it in the Yarra, because you are misinformed and you shouldn't be airing your incorrect, uneducated views on any forum, even one as open and free as this. SUCCESS TAKES TIME! And if you blindly cling to the thought that our list is great or that Mick (or anyone, short of Gandalf himself) could have instantaneously implemented and drilled in not only a new game plan, but a whole philosophy on how players need to play football, then you are kidding yourself. Phew, glad I've said that.
In any case, even though results have largely gone against us, if you really look closely and skip the angry pills for one day, you can see the pieces he has assembled and the game plan he has implemented coming together. Our ball movement has looked terrible for most of this year (and I think this has led to the most frustration - we can hold sides reasonably well, which has been a rarity for Carlton sides in the last decade, but we never feel like we're a chance of winning because of how toothless we are offensively) but in the last few weeks the players actually seem to be waking up to the structures they need to adhere to and as a result we are showing some attacking potency.
In addition to that, our defensive play, our physicality and our proficiency in contested situations is much improved. IMO Malthouse set out to instil these first, as complete non-negotiables - the cornerstone of the side - and now that the players are buying in and executing to a better level, they are also picking up the offensive side of his philosophy. That's how the best sides do it - you begin with a focus on a defensive, physical & combative mindset first, and by doing this you have the capability to compete at all times, in all 4 quarters, whatever the margin. The reason for this is that sometimes your attacking game might not work... some players might be out of sorts, not clunking marks, etc. It happens. But you can always control effort and defensive tenacity, and that is what Mick is instilling, and that is what will keep us competitive on days even when we aren't playing slick football. The flashy, fancy stuff will flow from here, particularly when more players develop/are recruited who have those all important traits such as composure & sound disposal. Bakc Malthouse!
Bakc Malthouse is good.........although.............Bakc Malthouse but be prepared to move is better.
We know that Mick was coming from some way back in respect to our list but we'll want to start seeing more than just incremental steps in players and team performances.
2013 was tough because Mick did largely have Rattens list to work with, which didn't really suit the way he wanted the guys to play but after this year we're going to want to see his list, better versed in producing better results.
We know what Mick has had to do behind the scenes but we're going to want to see the performances to back that up soon.....and so will the board.
We know that Mick was coming from some way back in respect to our list but we'll want to start seeing more than just incremental steps in players and team performances.
2013 was tough because Mick did largely have Rattens list to work with, which didn't really suit the way he wanted the guys to play but after this year we're going to want to see his list, better versed in producing better results.
We know what Mick has had to do behind the scenes but we're going to want to see the performances to back that up soon.....and so will the board.
- Sep 5, 2011
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Agreed, but this is the cornerstone of what we saw in this weeks presser. As a club, we have lacked patience (and we arguably havent needed it). What Mick is seemingly aiming at instilling is the process that is required for us to go from middle of the table, to a continued top 4 club - like a Geelong, Hawthorn or Sydney.
The principles he is seemingly working hard at implementing are the non negotiables on the field. In the past Carlton has been accused of lacking heart, and thats still shown a fair bit this year....but it seems like thats the main focus. Recently Malthouse has moved to defending the application of the club, and stated that we lacked talent. Whilst hard to hear - he's not wrong, and he cant change the poor skills that have our players missing targets, dropping marks, and handballing to each others bootlaces overnight. What he can do is boot those who wont change, and bring in players who fit his mould.
His gameplan will need to be flexible, and while he is bagged for being an old codger....he's not an idiot. He knows that his game plan must be maleable, but the principles of defense first must hold - and thats where we have failed this season. Some more astute drafting and trading to really build our depth, and our fortunes may well turn around.
He's not an idiot and he knows what he wants but if results don't follow the question will come about..........Are Micks wants going to materialize into on-field success?
Mick is clearly working close to Rogers but you wouldn't want him going against his own edict: "Let the baker bake the bread".
thylacine60
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What are you saying, TRP?
I don't disagree with you Harks, but what you're effectively saying is neither here nor there: "back him, unless we shouldn't back him, in which case, don't back him". Obviously, the wheels may fall off, and obviously, we want to see better results next year. I think it is a given that people will question him should we fail to improve next year. My point wasn't that we should blindly stick with him for the next 5 years regardless of results; it was that based on his 1.5 years so far, we have plenty to feel confident about.
For the TL;DR version, please refer to the final two words of the post (in addition to punctuation).
If Malthouse's vision and structures are now in place and should they be accepted by the board, then Malthouse should get an extension.
It seems to me that he's going about things with the long term view in sight but no-one should just give themselves over to Malthouse exclusively.
It is a results based industry as we know, and another year like this one, irrespective of the reasons, could be problematic for MM and the CFC
Had been told that Worsfold is well on the horizon for a role at Carlton.
Have been wondering if this is to be the case, as to how he may be used. Interesting.
- Sep 26, 2012
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The one where he said it up to Judd? And then he made a comment in general about how some players who retires this year clearly went on one year too many.
Moody Blue
Premiership Player
2003: Dennis Pagan was the most sought after coach in the AFL. His CV was extraordinary spanning over 20 years with an impeccable record with junior players i.e. under 19's and five premierships.
2007: Dennis Pagan's brand trashed, couldn't coach, out dated, and did not get any calls returned from AFL clubs. In the end they gave him an Under 18's job to try and get his tattered reputation back in order.
Pagan had to rely on recycled players and kids and yet the football world was ruthless in their opinion of his tenure at Carlton.
Very unfair and definitely deserved better.
Mick has had two years of his processes and yet we have lost to Melbourne, Brisbane, Richmond, and GWS after honourable losses to better credentialed opponents. Granted a horrific pre season with injury and players recovering from surgery, but only Menzel and Buckley took that next step. His refusal to give younger players the experience 'unless they have earned it' whilst playing the same old players who are not up to it, is annoying. MM's contract expires at the end of 2015, so early results next season will be crucial if he is seeking reappointment. A repeat season in 2015 and Mick can start planning for his media career. I am a supporter of MM but he has to deliver something next year. Dennis Pagan would have loved to have had the resources that Mick has before him.
2007: Dennis Pagan's brand trashed, couldn't coach, out dated, and did not get any calls returned from AFL clubs. In the end they gave him an Under 18's job to try and get his tattered reputation back in order.
Pagan had to rely on recycled players and kids and yet the football world was ruthless in their opinion of his tenure at Carlton.
Very unfair and definitely deserved better.
Mick has had two years of his processes and yet we have lost to Melbourne, Brisbane, Richmond, and GWS after honourable losses to better credentialed opponents. Granted a horrific pre season with injury and players recovering from surgery, but only Menzel and Buckley took that next step. His refusal to give younger players the experience 'unless they have earned it' whilst playing the same old players who are not up to it, is annoying. MM's contract expires at the end of 2015, so early results next season will be crucial if he is seeking reappointment. A repeat season in 2015 and Mick can start planning for his media career. I am a supporter of MM but he has to deliver something next year. Dennis Pagan would have loved to have had the resources that Mick has before him.
thylacine60
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I've posted this before and whilst it may sound like a joke it is actually a serious point.
Whilst Watson is terrible slow for an AFL player he is also not that 'tall'. We joke about it but he does have an oversized head which artificially inflates his 'size'. Whilst he measures in at 195cm (roughly 6'4") in real terms I think plays much shorter than that because his body, and more importantly his arms, aren't those of a normal 195cm person.
It's why you see him outreached when playing on the bigger forwards (coupled with no leap to speak of and no pace).
To me, his only real chance of making it is playing as the floating 3rd or 4th backman and just using his kicking skills. Not sure we have the luxury of doing that.
Otherwise, maybe try him as a high forward. I think in U/18 footy he was noted for his ability to read the play and zone off. Maybe this would work up forward.
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Yeah, agree - seems like he'd be happy for Juddy to retire! I'm convinced Juddy has a lot more to give based on what I've seen and would just love to see him play on next year as long as he's managed in terms of matches played. Mick needs to focus on getting players already in the system developed so we can replace retiring/departing players and not end up like St Kilda. I thought the NBs would have a good year this year, but they are currently 8th and a long way off the standard of the Box Hill Hawks. I think Hinkley and his team have shown that as much as recruiting is important, solid development of 2nd and 3rd tier players can quickly pay dividends.
Bit of a LOVE/hate thing with Mick at the moment. Happy to see 2-3 more years for now and see if he can take us up the ladder, but just wished he wasn't so stubborn and defensive at times; if Hinkley was available I'd be happy to see him at the helm in a heartbeat, but that ain't gonna happen. Great respect for Hinkley above all other current coaches because he turned that basket-case of a team around so quickly and has all the players playing for him and looking like A-graders.
Pagan recruited an awful lot of spuds and hasbeens. He put very little into player development and had a toxic relationship with the reserves coach.A mercenary just content to collect a paycheck while pissing down the board's back and telling them it was raining.
I'm so glad we didn't get Jesse White. Hats off to the recruiters and Mick for bringing in Docherty and Everitt - Docherty is just going to get better and be an A-grader within the next few years, hopefully in the midfield as an outside runner! Thomas - 5-6/10 in my book to date and with a full pre-season could be back to his best in 2015.
Some players have come on under Mick and others (due to gameplan, relationship with Mick, lack of good development, lack of confidence, and of course injury?) have gone stagnant, fallen away or just haven't developed how we would have expected (hoped for).
Apart from the new recruits and those out with injury for the majority of this year:
Wins for Mick: Casboult (if he now continues on from last week), Gibbs, Curnow, Ellard, White, Rowe, Buckley, Menzel and maybe Yarran
Losses for Mick: Tuohy, Garlett, Waite, Lucas, Watson, Graham and maybe Robinson
Agree, Matty does seem vulnerable down back (I get nervous watching him close to goal) and his confidence would have taken a battering earlier this year. If his career is to continue it might be better if he has a run as a high forward.
- Sep 26, 2012
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Can you explain why all of those are losses for Mick (except Waite).
Maybe Yarran? Maybe?!
Definitely Yarran. Last year a lot of people wanted him gone. This year he's top 2 for our B&F I'd say.
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