Research Missing DOD or DOB for League players (AFL)

[rbartlett]

Can you confirm name please.

Correct. Middle name is Charles not James as I had orig posted. See post #23

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

Fourth batch
Alexander Archibald Clarke (b: 25/5/1907) (Nth Melb 1930-31, 33). Orig club Fairfield. Was in WW2 RAAF

Born Singleton, NSW and lived in that region for most of his life.
Ancestry family trees list him as dying in Singleton, NSW in 1984 but no evidence to verify this that I can find so far...

 

[GreyCrow]

Born Singleton, NSW and lived in that region for most of his life.
Ancestry family trees list him as dying in Singleton, NSW in 1984 but no evidence to verify this that I can find so far...

Confirmed

Birth

CLARKE ALEXANDER A
18332/1907
Parents
JOHN A
EDITH B
Region
SINGLETON

Though to be fair the A in John could also be Archibald and the B in Edith could be Blanche

From NSW BDM Death
CLARKE ALEXANDER ARCHIBALD
104346/1984
Parents
ARCHIBALD
BLANCHE

This argument gains some validity when followed by John A Clarke obituary
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article82754984

Mr. John Archibald Clarke (74) of Westbrook passed away at his sister's residence at Belltrees on Monday. Few men in the Singleton district will gain the "spotless reputation" gained by Mr. Clarke. Born at Westbrook where his father was schoolmaster for a number of years, Mr. Clarke lived there all his life and did much to boost the grazing industry and the general welfare of the community. Mr. Clarke leaves a wife and four children, Alexander (Rathmines), Catherine (Mrs. N. Cameron of Belltrees),Marion (Mrs. M. Weatherall of Newcastle) and Edward (Miranda). The funeral, held in

And confirmed in the following reading of the will http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article82755231

WILL and CODICIL of JOHN ARCHIBALD CLARKE, late of Westbrook near Singleton in the State of New South Wales Grazier deceased.—APPLICATION will be made after fourteen days from the publication
hereof that Probate of the last Will and Testament dated 25th February 1948 and Codicil thereto dated 11th May 1949 of abovenamed deceased may be granted to EDITH BLANCHE CLARKE, ALEXANDER ARCHIBALD CLARKE and EDWARD WISEMAN CLARKE the Executrix and Executors named in the said Will

 

[rbartlett]

Great work to you both. Have added Alexander Clarke as resolved and will forward to AFL at end of season.

 

[GreyCrow]

Yes indeed, could still be alive.

Alfred Joseph shows up in earlier electoral rolls listed in the Malvern area, and there is an AJ Callick still listed in phone books as being in East Malvern.

Cannot find any ref to a newspaper death notice, nor a cemetery burial either.

There is a reference to Margot L Callick, his wife , who passed in late 1999 Probate 2000. Suggests an ABN held in that name came from the Malvern area.

http://abn.business/info?abn=43461261786

Edit: added long after this wwas posted. It was Alfs birthday on Tuesday. Has anyone checked Facebook or the newspapers for birthday wishes?

 

[GreyCrow]

For those who have an Ancestry email account there is a Free weekend this weekend . ie I have a signed account but no paid access.

Access to the records in the featured collections will be free from

00:01 BST on 25 August 2017
to
23:59 BST on 28 August 2017


From another site that is spot on with these promotions.

 

[rbartlett]

Been contacted by a member of the Watson family. The 4 Watson brothers all played for Richmond, in the same game, in the VFA.
One of those Watsons was Tom Watson. He also played VFL with Carlton + Melbourne . His Wiki page/Blueseum/Demonwiki page has death date of 28 May 1920. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Watson_(Australian_footballer)
However his relative and I have been liaising back and forth and he has discovered that Tom died in 1936, in Prahran, aged 62.

To complete the picture, this is what we have so far about the 4 brothers
Dave Watson
B: 1878 D: June 24, 1927 in Sydney.

Tom Watson
B: 1 January 1874 in Dunedin,New Zealand D: 3 August 1936, in Prahran, aged 62.
Actual death date not yet known. We know he died after May 23 1936 cause he was mentioned as being alive still in this article - http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article190326444

Joseph Watson
B: 1873 in Dunedin, New Zealand. D: May 27 1943 , Melbourne, aged 70

William Watson
B: 1878 , in Dunedin New Zealand D 1943 in Malvern, aged 64

So in summary I'll add the possible Tom Watson death date change to the email I'll send to Stephen Rogers at end of season.

 

[the croucher]

Been contacted by a member of the Watson family. The 4 Watson brothers all played for Richmond, in the same game, in the VFA.
One of those Watsons was Tom Watson. He also played VFL with Carlton + Melbourne . His Wiki page/Blueseum/Demonwiki page has death date of 28 May 1920. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Watson_(Australian_footballer)
However his relative and I have been liaising back and forth and he has discovered that Tom died in 1936, in Prahran, aged 62.

To complete the picture, this is what we have so far about the 4 brothers
Dave Watson
B: 1878 D: June 24, 1927 in Sydney.

Tom Watson
B: 1 January 1874 in Dunedin,New Zealand D: 1936, in Prahran, aged 62.
Actual death date not yet known. We know he died after May 23 1936 cause he was mentioned as being alive still in this article - http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article190326444

Joseph Watson
B: 1873 in Dunedin, New Zealand. D: May 27 1943 , Melbourne, aged 70

William Watson
B: 1878 , in Dunedin New Zealand D 1943 in Malvern, aged 64

So in summary I'll add the possible Tom Watson death date change to the email I'll send to Stephen Rogers at end of season.

Rhett, Tom Watson died in the Alfred Hospital on 3 August 1936.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/page/19260109

 

[rbartlett]

Rhett, Tom Watson died in the Alfred Hospital on 3 August 1936.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/page/19260109

Thank you
Wiki / Demonwiki (I'll make contact with them) / Blueseum will need to be updated.
I'll add that info to my AFL email.
My VFA Tigerland page has been updated https://tigerlandarchive.org/tiki-index.php?page=VFA+Players
Side note: I've now added Births and Deaths columns so its easier to keep a track of missing birth dates and death dates for Tiger players.

Btw,
If anyone stumbles across William Watson's obit in 1943, Malvern, aged 64. Please advise.
(a brother of Tom)

 

[35Daicos]

Btw,
If anyone stumbles across William Watson's obit in 1943, Malvern, aged 64. Please advise.
(a brother of Tom)

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/12011955

Looks like he died December 30 1942. He was buried on 1st January 1943.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/11341373/621127

Edit: Here's an obituary from the Williamstown Chronicle (8 January 1943):- http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/70716330

 

[GreyCrow]

Thank you
Wiki / Demonwiki (I'll make contact with them) / Blueseum will need to be updated.
I'll add that info to my AFL email.
My VFA Tigerland page has been updated https://tigerlandarchive.org/tiki-index.php?page=VFA+Players
Side note: I've now added Births and Deaths columns so its easier to keep a track of missing birth dates and death dates for Tiger players.

Btw,
If anyone stumbles across William Watson's obit in 1943, Malvern, aged 64. Please advise.
(a brother of Tom)

Once again Daics beats us all to the goal
This from Jan 1

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article11341373

Dec 31 for DOD Dec 30 1942 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article12011955

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

Thank you
Wiki / Demonwiki (I'll make contact with them) / Blueseum will need to be updated.

Updated Wikipedia for Tom Watson, Bill Pickering, George/Phil Gibson to reflect changes identified in this/inaccuracies thread
Blueseum/australianfootball.com have already updated Tom Watson records

 

[GreyCrow]

Edward "Ted" Gordon Brewis (B: 13/10/1901) (Carlton 1925-28). Original Club Maffra. Born Beddington, England. (Policeman)
I notice Ted Brewis is mentioned in this 1951 article, and I interpret that as he was still living at that stage. http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article193647464

Third batch of Missing DOD players:

Henry "Harry" John Brown (b:16/10/1903 ) (StKilda - 1927). Original club: Caulfield.
Samuel Otto John Buck (b: 15/11/1876) (Carlton 1897) Original Club: Royal Park Crescent. Blueseum bio: http://www.blueseum.org/Otto+Buck
Alfred Joseph Callick (b: 14/8/1925) (Sth Melb 143, 1946-1950) WW2 Army. Original Club: South Colts. *may still be living
Joe Canavan (b 4/11/1880) (Sth Melb 1903) Original Club: South Bendigo

Fourth batch

Jack Louis Cliff (b: 23/5/1919) (StKilda 1940-42) Orig club West Broken Hill. Was in WW2 Army

Patrick John Considine (b: 30/9.1875) (Carl 1898-1901) Orig club West Melb

I have exhausted most of the places I can look. Apart from the possibility of Joe Canavan being the drowning in NSW and Ted Brewis passing in 1994 the others are either non-entities in the scheme of newspapers of the day or the newspapers themselves need to be released or accessed in person. They are there somewhere , just not yet.

Next

 

[rbartlett]

Fifth Batch -missing Date of Death
* indicates player may still be living

* Eugene Francis "Frank" Corby (b: 24/12/1924) (Coll: 1948) (Orig club Abbotsford)
Frederick "Fred" Rowland Coulsell (b 17/12/1905) (Nth: 1927, Ess 1931) (Orig club : Public Service)
Robert "Bobby" Ritchie Craig (b: 29/3/1882) (Melb 1902) (Orig Club: Melbourne Grammar / Leopold ?)
*Peter Anstey Dalwood (b: 17/6/1922) (Fitz: 1945) (Orig club: Norwood SA) . Was in WW2 - Army
Richard James Day (b: 17/2/1920) (Nth: 1943) (Orig club Yarraville, VFA)

 

[GreyCrow]

Peter Anstey Dalwood is recorded as a newspaper death entry on SA Genealogy site for 2000
https://www.genealogysa.org.au/index.php?option=com_search&Itemid=32

Wikipedia already suggest May 22 2000 which might confirm the above
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Dalwood

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

Fifth Batch -missing Date of Death
Robert "Bobby" Ritchie Craig (b: 29/3/1882) (Melb 1902) (Orig Club: Melbourne Grammar / Leopold ?)

Robert Ritchie Craig was born in Williamstown in 1882 to John Harkes Craig and Christina Campbell Ritchie.
In April 1901 he is recorded in the Scottish census as living at 38 Queen St, Stirling, Scotland with his parents (place of birth listed as Australia) - occupation law apprentice.
Makes me wonder if he is actually the Craig who played - I haven't been able to find evidence of him returning to Australia.

 

[GreyCrow]

Robert Ritchie Craig was born in Williamstown in 1882 to John Harkes Craig and Christina Campbell Ritchie.
In April 1901 he is recorded in the Scottish census as living at 38 Queen St, Stirling, Scotland with his parents (place of birth listed as Australia) - occupation law apprentice.
Makes me wonder if he is actually the Craig who played - I haven't been able to find evidence of him returning to Australia.

His brother Andrew Dunmore Hunter Craig 1888 is listed as passing in 1982 with same parents gravesite at Dromana

https://billiongraves.com/grave/Andrew-Dunmore-Hunter-Craig/4024047

I can find births of Norman Leslie and Robert Ritchie Craig but no deaths. I have just seen a geni page that suggests Robert Ritchie went to Argentina and am following that up

John Harkes Craig is listed on ScotlandsPeople as passing in 1906 in Stirling and Christina Campbell Craig as passing in Stirling in 1939 aged 94

 

[Harry Hook]

Craig was definitely from Leopold.

Argus 18 August 1902

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article9066568

Being a junior club, no permit was necessary.

Don't know if this report is relevant but this report of the Geelong advertiser of 20 June 1904 refers to one James Craig who received a kick playing football. at the time he was 22.


http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article148902013

 

[the croucher]

I have found Carl Schaefer ! He played one match for St Kilda in 1920.

Websites like AFL Tables and Wikipedia have his birth as 16 February 1894, but date of death is listed as unknown.
No wonder he hadn’t been found - he died under the name Clive Howard in December 1936.

Vic BDMs site has the following detail
HIS BIRTH - 1894 - Carl Norman E reg no. 15866
to parents William Felix and Emily E (nee Higginbottom)
HIS DEATH - 1936 - Clive Norman Ethelbert Howard reg no. 11239
parents William Felix Schaefer and Emily Edith Higinbotham

His mother's birth in 1865 - Emily Edith Heginbottom reg no. 25766
to parents William Howard and Selina nee Buckley

His parents marriage in 1884 - William Felix Schaefer & Emily Edith Heginbottom reg no. 5716
His father's death in 1909 - William Felix Schaefer reg no. 8372

His mother's death in 1947 - Emily Edith Howard reg no. 12222
parents William Howard Heginbottom and Selina

DEATH 1936 - The Argus 18 Dec:
HOWARD - on 17 December, Clive Norman, youngest loving son of Emily Edith, affectionate brother of C.W.; H.W.; and R.H. aged 42 years
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/a...imits=dateFrom=1936-12-18|||dateTo=1936-12-18

DEATH in 1947 - The Argus 18 Nov
HOWARD - on 14 November, Emily Edith, dearly beloved wife of the late William, loved mother of Cecil, Howard, Russell, Clive (deceased), aged 82 years.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/a...ory=Family+Notices|||l-year=1947|||l-month=11

 

[the croucher]

His brother Andrew Dunmore Hunter Craig 1888 is listed as passing in 1982 with same parents gravesite at Dromana

https://billiongraves.com/grave/Andrew-Dunmore-Hunter-Craig/4024047

I can find births of Norman Leslie and Robert Ritchie Craig but no deaths. I have just seen a geni page that suggests Robert Ritchie went to Argentina and am following that up

John Harkes Craig is listed on ScotlandsPeople as passing in 1906 in Stirling and Christina Campbell Craig as passing in Stirling in 1939 aged 94

Great to have that clue about Argentina !

Ancestry site has a ref to a Robert R Craig (a cattleman, aged 30) leaving Liverpool on board the Rossetti on 19 July 1913 bound for
River Plate, Argentina ! Also noted that the country of intended future permanent residence is Scotland.

 

[the croucher]

Fourth batch
<snip>
Patrick John Considine (b: 30/9.1875) (Carl 1898-1901) Orig club West Melb

No solution for DOD yet, but more on his career. He plays with North Melbourne (VFA) after leaving Carlton.

Here is ref at end of April 1902 re: includes mention of his move to NM from the "dark blues"
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/a...-05-31|||dateFrom=1902-04-01|||sortby=dateAsc

See photo of him here in the 1903 VFA final
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/175402476

Considine named in team to represent VFA against South Australia in 1905
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/198582549

 

[the croucher]

Robert Ritchie Craig was born in Williamstown in 1882 to John Harkes Craig and Christina Campbell Ritchie.
In April 1901 he is recorded in the Scottish census as living at 38 Queen St, Stirling, Scotland with his parents (place of birth listed as Australia) - occupation law apprentice.
Makes me wonder if he is actually the Craig who played - I haven't been able to find evidence of him returning to Australia.

Yes, I too am wondering about Craig - and to be honest - many other players of that early VFL era.

How are the records compiled ?
A very high percentage of the newspaper reports on matches and club activities only refer to players by surname.
Where is the evidence that Craig who plays for Melbourne in 1902 is identified by a particular given name or initial ?

 

[Harry Hook]

Yes, I too am wondering about Craig - and to be honest - many other players of that early VFL era.

How are the records compiled ?
A very high percentage of the newspaper reports on matches and club activities only refer to players by surname.
Where is the evidence that Craig who plays for Melbourne in 1902 is identified by a particular given name or initial ?

Agree as I've said a number of times. I think a lot of them are just plain wrong.

Which is why I try to look for a footballer with the same last name before and after the alleged footballer played at a certain club and try to get a permit history. There were , as there are now, but less then, a finite number of young men who played football at VFL and VFA level. Also those men, like now, are likely to have played football elsewhere after a limited career or stopped for some sudden reason ( ie death, enlistment, migration, shifting state, injury or sometimes work).

In this Craig played football Leopold for a couple of years, was picked up to play a few games for Melbourne and then are we suggesting he stopped football entirely?

 

[GreyCrow]

In this Craig played football Leopold for a couple of years, was picked up to play a few games for Melbourne and then are we suggesting he stopped football entirely?

There is an umpire named Craig in the Leopold district
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article166062946

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

There is an umpire named Craig in the Leopold district
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article166062946

... that is a different Leopold (the Geelong based version) - "Bobby" Craig came from the South Melbourne based club.

Looking at the Herald on Google news archive (which gives complete team lineups) - Craig first played for Leopold in Rd 3 on 24 May 1902. He then seems to play every week until he is selected by Melbourne - on 9 Aug 1902 he was a ruckman in the MJFA representative team that played against a Ballarat association team. None of the reports that I have found give any indication of first name/initial.