Research Missing DOD or DOB for League players (AFL)

[WhiteHartLane23]

Fifth Batch -missing Date of Death
* indicates player may still be living

* Eugene Francis "Frank" Corby (b: 24/12/1924) (Coll: 1948) (Orig club Abbotsford)

Reading http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article42470909 I found he used the name Lawrence William Corby (he appears to have been "well known to police")

VIC BDM gives us:
Name: Lawrence William Corby
Birth Year: abt 1923
Age: 56
Death Place: Heidelberg, Victoria
Father's name: John William
Mother's name: Rose Rafferty
Registration Year: 1979
Registration Place: Victoria
Registration Number: 26923
I think this is our man...

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

No solution for DOD yet, but more on his career. He plays with North Melbourne (VFA) after leaving Carlton.

For consideration:
Pat Considine's birth record doesn't mention a middle name
year registration number gender surname first names father mother birth place
1875, 24373, Considine, Patrick, John, Oconnor Eliza, Hotham

Siblings with birth records are Dan (1873), John Thomas (1873), and Michael (1877) - although his mother is variously named Eliza/Elizabeth Connor/O'Connor so it is hard to find them all...

In 1918 there is a death notice in The Age for Patrick James Considine (age 41) - http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article155093476
... the beloved son of the late John and Eliza Considine, and brother of Daniel and Leo

He would actually have been 42 so it seems like a good fit

 

[35Daicos]

For consideration:
Pat Considine's birth record doesn't mention a middle name
year registration number gender surname first names father mother birth place
1875, 24373, Considine, Patrick, John, Oconnor Eliza, Hotham

Siblings with birth records are Dan (1873), John Thomas (1873), and Michael (1877) - although his mother is variously named Eliza/Elizabeth Connor/O'Connor so it is hard to find them all...

In 1918 there is a death notice in The Age for Patrick James Considine (age 41) - http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article155093476
... the beloved son of the late John and Eliza Considine, and brother of Daniel and Leo

He would actually have been 42 so it seems like a good fit

The Encyclopedia of AFL Footballers calls him 'Dido', and you can see on Trove that the player was often referred to by that nickname. So it's very likely to be him, since he's called that in the death notice!

A 1926 article referred to Considine as "the immortal "Dido," of North Melbourne." Still, it does seem odd that there appears to be no mention made of his death (at the time), if he was the well regarded footballer.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/3805193

 

[GreyCrow]

For consideration:
Pat Considine's birth record doesn't mention a middle name
year registration number gender surname first names father mother birth place
1875, 24373, Considine, Patrick, John, Oconnor Eliza, Hotham

Siblings with birth records are Dan (1873), John Thomas (1873), and Michael (1877) - although his mother is variously named Eliza/Elizabeth Connor/O'Connor so it is hard to find them all...

In 1918 there is a death notice in The Age for Patrick James Considine (age 41) - http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article155093476
... the beloved son of the late John and Eliza Considine, and brother of Daniel and Leo

He would actually have been 42 so it seems like a good fit

I have looked at this one a few times and 1 or 2 things stopped me. The age. Minor really except Michael the brother of 1875 Patrick listed is shown in BDM as being born in 1877 which fits this date. There is no Leo , there are also 2 other sons of Eliza OConnor/Considine not mentioned. Just odd that in some notices of the times, especially Irish families deceased are also mentioned.

 

[the croucher]

For consideration:
Pat Considine's birth record doesn't mention a middle name
year registration number gender surname first names father mother birth place
1875, 24373, Considine, Patrick, John, Oconnor Eliza, Hotham

Siblings with birth records are Dan (1873), John Thomas (1873), and Michael (1877) - although his mother is variously named Eliza/Elizabeth Connor/O'Connor so it is hard to find them all...

In 1918 there is a death notice in The Age for Patrick James Considine (age 41) - http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article155093476
... the beloved son of the late John and Eliza Considine, and brother of Daniel and Leo

He would actually have been 42 so it seems like a good fit

The online index record at Vic BDMs lists a James Considine's death in 1918,
parents John and Elizabeth (nee Connor) #4461 in Cheltenham district

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

I have looked at this one a few times and 1 or 2 things stopped me. The age. Minor really except Michael the brother of 1875 Patrick listed is shown in BDM as being born in 1877 which fits this date. There is no Leo , there are also 2 other sons of Eliza OConnor/Considine not mentioned. Just odd that in some notices of the times, especially Irish families deceased are also mentioned.

Worked up family tree in Ancestry...
John Thomas Considine died at age 3 months
Michael James Considine died in Dec 1910 in Ryde, NSW (someone has helpfully uploaded pdfs of NSW marriage certificate in 1906 which positively identify him)
Haven't found a death date for Dan or any records that identify "Leo" - there are some Leo Considine's but nothing that obviously connects.
It is common that deceased siblings don't get mentioned in death notices, so I'm not too concerned about that aspect and this also takes Michael out of consideration for the 1918 death.
No idea why the Vic death record only has James as a first name but the The Age notice clearly identifies him as Patrick James.

Given the Dido connection from 35Daicos above I'm now pretty confident this is him.
Death date 20 Jun 1918; Death Location: Cheltenham
Full name Patrick James Considine (rather than Patrick John Considine as stated in original query from AFL via Rhett)

 

[Harry Hook]

Re Considine.

Can't comment on the geneology side of things as that is not my forte.

What I can say is that the Dido Considine for Carlton is the same as that for North Melbourne.

And it is not unusual for a footballer's death to be remarked upon, in fact, I'm beginning to lean the other way these days, and believe it is remarkable when it is.

Also note that P Considine died in the latter stages of world war 1 at home, ie he had not enlisted presumably. It is very likely that his death would not be announced and a lot of football clubs were then in recess anyway.

 

[Harry Hook]

I also accessed a photo of the 1903 North Melbourne premiership side on Google images. The photo has the players named and Considine's name was stated as being "D Considine" which suggests he used it commonly.
It should also be remarked that the photo also includes W Dalton, ie Bill Dalton of Fitzroy Football Club premiership fame whose date of death the AFL got wrong.
It seems that once a player went to the VFA, they were forgotten about.......

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

First batch of Missing DOD for players
Lester Robert 'Bob' Allen (b: 22/12/1908). (Fitzroy 1926 - 4 games). One his original clubs was Sea Lake

Lester Robert Allen is another one that seems to have used a different name - in most records he appears as Leslie Robert Allen.
His parents were William Alfred Allen and Helen Isabella Hurtle and he married Annie Maree Nelson.
He worked as a baker in various places around Victoria:
- Steed, Wimmera (1936)
- Charlton, Wimmera (1949)
- Beech Forest, Otways (1963-1980)
Family tree records indicate a death date of 8 Apr 1992 but no sources are cited for this - frustratingly after death records are public and before online records are prevalent...

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

...
It seems that once a player went to the VFA, they were forgotten about.......

We all forget about players once they stop playing... if the players themselves don't wish to maintain an active connection after they stop playing (and there is no reason they should have to), it is easy to see how we lose track of people. Particularly 100 years ago, it wasn't such a big thing to have played a few games of footy.

Yesterday I stumbled across the death notice for Jim Kuhl (North) who died earlier this year in Queensland. A long forgotten player (and one who I suspect is on the list Rhett has) - I'm not sure if the club know he has died....

 

[rbartlett]

Yesterday I stumbled across the death notice for Jim Kuhl (North) who died earlier this year in Queensland. A long forgotten player (and one who I suspect is on the list Rhett has) - I'm not sure if the club know he has died....

Yes,he on the list as missing DOD. Can you post your findings here and I'll add it to the email.
I've also added the subsequent discoveries by everyone over the last few postings.

 

[rbartlett]

Sixth Batch missing Date of Deaths

*James Vickers "Vic" Donald - (Coll 1948) (B: 17/2/1925, Orig club Clifton Hill YCW)
Charles "Charlie" Francis Dowell - (Fit 1911-12) (B: 27/1/1888. Orig club: North Fitzroy) WW1 Army
*James Douglas "Doug" Dowling - (Sth Melb 1946) (B: 17/9/1922 Orig club Williamstown VFA ) WW2 RAAF
Norman Bruce Edge - (Melb 1945) (B: 30/4/1924 Orig club : Rochester )
Robert "Bob" Stanley Fitzsimmons - (Fitz 1936-37) (StK 1939-41) (B:16/4/1917 Orig club: Burnley)

 

[GreyCrow]

Sixth Batch missing Date of Deaths


Norman Bruce Edge - (Melb 1945) (B: 30/4/1924 Orig club : Rochester )

Kyabram Cemetery website has a 1994 internment 29/9/1994

http://kyabramcemetery.com/e0.htm

 

[GreyCrow]

Sixth Batch missing Date of Deaths

Charles "Charlie" Francis Dowell - (Fit 1911-12) (B: 27/1/1888. Orig club: North Fitzroy) WW1 Army

Born 1888
Event registration number2906
Registration year1888

Personal information
Family nameDOWELL
Given names Charles Francis

Father's nameCharles

Mother's nameEliza Frances (Pearce)

Place of birthF'ROY N.

Death notice Qld BDM

1972 C6118 Charles Francis Dowell Charles Francis Dowell Eliza Pierce

https://www.bdm.qld.gov.au/IndexSearch/querySubmit.m?ReportName=DeathSearch

 

[GreyCrow]

Sixth Batch missing Date of Deaths

Robert "Bob" Stanley Fitzsimmons - (Fitz 1936-37) (StK 1939-41) (B:16/4/1917 Orig club: Burnley)

Bob appears to have died in Adelaide. A Robert Stanley Fitzsimmons is listed buried in Enfield Cemetery by both FindAGrave and SA BDM cemetery listings. Age of death seems to make a match

https://www.genealogysa.org.au

https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=157791386

 

[GreyCrow]

Sixth Batch missing Date of Deaths


*James Douglas "Doug" Dowling - (Sth Melb 1946) (B: 17/9/1922 Orig club Williamstown VFA ) WW2 RAAF

A James Douglas Dowling (Doug) has a notice in Herald Sun Tributes posted 16/5 for a death 14/5/2013 with the right age range

http://tributes.heraldsun.com.au/archivenotice/3057084/view?random=1504605105417

 

[rbartlett]

Seventh Batch of missing Date of Deaths.

Walter "Wally" Gerald Gant (StK 1908-11, 1914). (B: 7/7/1890 . Orig club Melbourne Swimmers). Died June 1957 in South Africa , Western Cape.
Exact death date not known

*Harry Leslie "Les" Gardner (StK 1947) (B: 30/9/1923 Prahran VFA )

James "Jimmy" Gaynor (Carl 1904) (B: 17/5/1877 . Orig club Carlton District) 27 years of age on debut

Maxwell "Max" Herbert Glass (Sth 1945) ( B: 2/10/1925 Sth Melb Boys)

Cecil "Cec" Richard Graeme (Stk 1901) (B: 3/6/1873 Wesley College) 27 years of age on debut. Family name originally Grimes-Graeme Refer to post #82. Death year and location found. EXACT DEATH DATE still unknown

 

[rbartlett]

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/70021650I'll throw in some missing Richmond VFA players/ officials Date of Birth/Date of Death queries

John "Jack" J. Stewart (died circa 1944-1945 as per Annual Report). Nickname Bosco. Life member of Richmond in 1895 Date of birth ? Exact date of death? He had a son called Len, who played for Richmond Cricket Club
Ernest Rudd (Richmond VFA 1896, 1898-1904). Wonder if this is him from 1949. His age makes it plausible
Charlie Stephens (Richmond VFA 1885-1890) From Richmond Juniors. Went to Lilydale
Tommy Ryan. (Richmond 1895-97). Carlt 1898, Melb 1899-1902. Blueseum and Demonwiki both have his dob at 9 October 1871. Wiki however has it at 12 August 1873
Tom Graham ( 1885-1886, 1890-1891 Richmond VFA) Came from Sth Melb team, Went to Pt Melb in 1887, returned to Richmond in 1890. Date of birth/death?
Alf Searle ( Richmond VFA 1885-1890, 1893) From Stanley, and Scotch College Thanks GReyCrow
Richard Joseph Knell (Richmond VFA 1905-1906) I've found he died circa June 1943, and was buried in Fawkner Cemetery, but I can't find his exact death date.
John "Jack" Smith ( Richmond VFA 1905-06). We know his father was George Smith (Rich/Carl) who died 31 May 1905 , aged 50/51 , and his brother was Dave Smith (Richmond/Ess/Test Cricketer). Granddaughter found. Thanks WHL

Jack Hutchinson (Richmond VFA 1904-1907). Port Melbourne 1901-1902. Footscray 1908-09. A significant goalkicker in the VFA
Fred "Socky" Alsop (played Richmond 1893-1895, Carlton 1892). Possibly transferred to Launceston after Richmond Date of birth ? Date of death?
Henry Edgar "Son" Feore (died 1931, Richmond aged 50). Date of birth ? Exact date of death?
Hector N Milne ( Richmond VFA 1899-1900) . Put a clearance in to West Richmond. He went to War. His brother was Herbert 'Boxer' Milne
Jimmy O'Meara ( Richmond VFA 1893-1896) Went on to play with Sth Melb and Frankston . This article says he was still alive in 1940. (Not sure if related to player of same name for Sth in 1930s)
Fred Wookey (Richmond VFA 1885, 1887-1889 ) From Richmond United , and East Melbourne
John H Egan (died circa 1934-1935). Life member of Richmond in 1894 Date of birth ? Exact date of death?

 

[GreyCrow]

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/70021650I'll throw in some missing Richmond VFA players/ officials Date of Birth/Date of Death queries


Henry Edgar "Son" Feore (died 1931, Richmond aged 50). Date of birth ? Exact date of death?

12 August 1931

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article203022568

Tommy Ryan. (Richmond 1895-97). Carlt 1898, Melb 1899-1902. Blueseum and Demonwiki both have his dob at 9 October 1871. Wiki however has it at 12 August 1873

If he was born in Australia and his name was Jeremiah and not Tommy ie Tommy was a nickname, then no Jeremiah Ryan was born in 1873 in Victoria but 3 Jeremiah Ryan births were recorded in 1871. There was also no preceding death in 1948

 

[35Daicos]

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/70021650 I'll throw in some missing Richmond VFA players/ officials Date of Birth/Date of Death queries

Good idea! GreyCrow is on fire!!

 

[rbartlett]

Good idea! GreyCrow is on fire!!

I have many more from the AFL to submit, and also many more from Richmond VFA to submit
But I'll spread them out over time. This and the Inaccuracied Thread are the best threads on BigFooty.

 

[GreyCrow]

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/70021650I'll throw in some missing Richmond VFA players/ officials Date of Birth/Date of Death queries


Fred "Socky" Alsop (played Richmond 1893-1895, Carlton 1892). Possibly transferred to Launceston after Richmond Date of birth ? Date of death?

There is a possible candidate.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article11321694

A Fred Alsop was 68 when died in 1940 giving a possible birth date of 1872 late 1871. ( no vic bdm births match) Fred married Alice Maud Stocks in 1902. If this is the correct one and little information is given apart from service of 53 years to Troede and Cooper. His address is also given as a Camberwell address.

 

[GreyCrow]

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/70021650I'll throw in some missing Richmond VFA players/ officials Date of Birth/Date of Death queries
Hector N Milne ( Richmond VFA 1899-1900) . Put a clearance in to West Richmond. He went to War. His brother was Herbert 'Boxer' Milne

Given the linked article on the war service and the naming of the parents the Vic BDM list a Hector Norman Milne b 1880 Benalla to John and Mary Lavinia (Landorf) this same person died in 1960 in Carrum

 

[RedmanWasHere]

GreyCrow's not just good at submitting songs.

A very versatile bloke on here.

 

[GreyCrow]

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/70021650I'll throw in some missing Richmond VFA players/ officials Date of Birth/Date of Death queries

John H Egan (died circa 1934-1935). Life member of Richmond in 1894 Date of birth ? Exact date of death?

John Howard Egan gave evidence on a ''Football Incident'' in 1911. He states he is a Life Member of the League and that he is not affilliated with either team Melbourne or University. http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article11612181

If this is your man then he died in 1925 and was born 1865

Registration year1925

Personal information
Family name EGAN
Given namesJohn Howard

Father's name EGAN John
Mother's name Ann (Howard)

Place of birth

Place of death HAWTHORN

Age60

Yet we have this

Registration year1860

Personal information
Family name EGAN
Given namesJohn Thomas

SexUnknown
Father's nameJohn
Mother's nameAnn (Howard)

Place of birthRICH



I wonder if he was married. passed away Sep 3 1925 (if it is same one)
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article2136009