Mitch Clark v Tyrone Vickery (Most Goals 2012)

[ThePuppetMaster]

I'd call it taking responsibility. At some point you have to want to kick the goal, if that means Clark is a bit ambitious on occasion... I can live with that.

Should we call Cloke selfish for every shot he takes inside 30 metres?

As for the forward-line functioning; it is interesting.

There seemed to be too many players going for the one ball last night.

As for Watts; I think in a perfect world he will be our no.1 forward with Clark no.2... unfortunately I don't think it will be this season.

Due to Neeld's observation our squad was not up to the proper fitness level Watts has actually dropped weight (as have a fair few of our players actually) due to the volume of cardio work.

He has increased his strength but I still would think that untill he can begin to hit peak strength he'll still play 2nd fiddle.

 

[MightyTiger]

I'd call it taking responsibility. At some point you have to want to kick the goal, if that means Clark is a bit ambitious on occasion... I can live with that.

Should we call Cloke selfish for every shot he takes inside 30 metres?

Fair enough.

As for the forward-line functioning; it is interesting.

There seemed to be too many players going for the one ball last night.

I think it will take some time to get the right mix together, Clark was going for everything last night, definitely a good thing that he wants to get involved but again, he has to keep in mind that he has other team mates that need to get involved, 2-3 times last night Watts was in perfect position to take a grab inside 50 and every time Clark came over the top spoiling Watts.

As for Watts; I think in a perfect world he will be our no.1 forward with Clark no.2... unfortunately I don't think it will be this season.

I've been on record as saying that Watts needs to spend more time playing deep, he showed a few times last year that when he plays deep he has the athleticism to take a contested grab, saw it first hand against my mob.

Due to Neeld's observation our squad was not up to the proper fitness level Watts has actually dropped weight (as have a fair few of our players actually) due to the volume of cardio work.

He has increased his strength but I still would think that untill he can begin to hit peak strength he'll still play 2nd fiddle.

Watts definitely looked slimmer but he also looked more lean and fit, looked slightly bigger and more of a mans body then a skinny kid, I think he has all the tools in the world to become an excellent AFL player, it just seems to me that, none of his coaches so far have had enough confidence in him to be the #1 man, Hardwick did the same thing to Jack, claiming him to be more of a second tall then the #1, lucky for us though that Jack has that cockiness about him and proved everybody how wrong they were of him.

Lets hope Watts takes the same path and proves not only to himself but everybody else that he can be the #1 man, because IMO Clark isn't your answer.

 

[Bazzar]

It went unnoticed as the Collingwood tag team and Geelong's James Podsiadly and Tom Hawkins led their respective teams to the grand final, but Vickery and Riewoldt were actually the most productive tall-forward pairing in the AFL last year.

In terms of total output, the Tigers' one-two punch kicked the most goals (98) and latched onto the most marks inside forward 50 (107) of any tall forward combination during the home-and-away season, not including finals.

That Vickery and Riewoldt played more combined games than the likes of Cloke and Dawes (85 goals, 101 marks), West Coast's Josh Kennedy and Quinten Lynch (76, 88) or Podsiadly and Hawkins (66, 93), certainly helped elevate their standing, but the raw numbers remain significant.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/standing-tall-20120224-1ttxz.html

Will the Demon pair of Clarke/Watts overtake Reiwoldt/Vickery this year?

 

[markm106]

How about Jurrah and Clark. Jurrah will play closer to goal than Watts.

 

[Bazzar]

How about Jurrah and Clark. Jurrah will play closer to goal than Watts.

Reiwoldt/Vickery kicked 10 more goals than Jurrah/Watts/Clarke last year.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

*Clark.

Jurrah isn't a key forward markm, wouldn't really be a fair comparison for 2012.

 

[Jordie_tackles]

Reiwoldt/Vickery kicked 10 more goals than Jurrah/Watts/Clarke last year.

Richmond definitely have the better key forwards leading into this season, last season our leading scorers would have been Jurrah and green and would have kicked over 70 between them i think.

The development of Watts and Clarke could be interesting

 

[markm106]

*Clark.

Jurrah isn't a key forward markm, wouldn't really be a fair comparison for 2012.

Hear what your saying but looking forward to Clark/Jurrah combo this year. Watts to play further away from goal.

 

[Tingay02]

What were your thoughts on the rest of my post? Did you think Clark looked like he straightened you guys up at all? Because as a neutral watching the game, you guys played very wide.

I also found the Watts/Clark combination interesting, Watts almost looked disinterested in the Forward line, rarely noticed him, will be interesting to track the development of that duo in the coming months and years.

I love a peanut like this that comes on and reads a truck load into a game style after 80 minutres of rubbish football, with rubbish out-of-bounds rules and typical crappy monsoonal QLD weather. I would like to see any side 'perform' in that weather. The standard of all 3 games was terrible and really, as GC assistant Marcus Ashcroft stated, its hard to take anything out of the game. Clark kicked a nice early goal, created a few other opportunities and laid some solid tackles. Melbourne trialed players in different spots and did not play with any continuity (in terms of personell).

May as well wait until rd 1 to make such huge judgement calls.

 

[markm106]

I love a peanut like this that comes on and reads a truck load into a game style after 80 minutres of rubbish football, with rubbish out-of-bounds rules and typical crappy monsoonal QLD weather. I would like to see any side 'perform' in that weather. The standard of all 3 games was terrible and really, as GC assistant Marcus Ashcroft stated, its hard to take anything out of the game. Clark kicked a nice early goal, created a few other opportunities and laid some solid tackles. Melbourne trialed players in different spots and did not play with any continuity (in terms of personell).

May as well wait until rd 1 to make such huge judgement calls.

Agree. Clark was quiet good given the conditions in the first game. Was subbed out in the 2nd I believe. Ball rarely got to our forward line in the first half against lions.

 

[MightyTiger]

I love a peanut like this that comes on and reads a truck load into a game style after 80 minutres of rubbish football, with rubbish out-of-bounds rules and typical crappy monsoonal QLD weather. I would like to see any side 'perform' in that weather. The standard of all 3 games was terrible and really, as GC assistant Marcus Ashcroft stated, its hard to take anything out of the game. Clark kicked a nice early goal, created a few other opportunities and laid some solid tackles. Melbourne trialed players in different spots and did not play with any continuity (in terms of personell).

May as well wait until rd 1 to make such huge judgement calls.

Move along buddy, I clearly stated in my posts that I understand it was only a NAB cup game, take your rubbish remarks elsewhere as you are aiming at the wrong person.

 

[Tingay02]

Move along buddy, I clearly stated in my posts that I understand it was only a NAB cup game, take your rubbish remarks elsewhere as you are aiming at the wrong person.

convincing argument!

 

[MightyTiger]

convincing argument!

So you didn't bother to read any of my other posts just picked out one line for you to take a cheap shot at me?

 

[Tingay02]

So you didn't bother to read any of my other posts just picked out one line for you to take a cheap shot at me?

I read that you thought Clark was selfish because he took a shot from outside fifty when there was no Melbourne player forward of him. You are right, he should have held it up and let all the Suns players get back. He almost kicked a supergoal ffs, it was touched on the line. When you talk about our forward line, perhaps your forget that in the two ganmes we played, we only played one half of our forwards. That is the beautry of an experimental game, such as NAB cup. I would like to see our forward line with Clark, Jurrah, Davey, Martin, Petterd and Watts in dry conditions. Once we see that I think we are all better placed to comment.

 

[MightyTiger]

To be honest, he looked like his selfish same again, that mark or free kick he received just on the 50, instead of getting up and turning around to have a look to see if he has a team mate free, he gets up and walks back to take the kick, in the conditions he was in, he was never going to make the distance, you could also see as he was getting up a Melbourne player running inside 50 on his own providing an option, yet Mitch had no thought of passing it off, Danny Frawley even made mention of it.

EDIT: And also, I know this is only NAB cup but if tonight was any evidence of a type of style we are to see from Melbourne, then all the talk about him straightening them up looks to have gone out the window, they were constantly kicking wide playing the a similar style to Collingwood with just less skill and talent.

I read that you thought Clark was selfish because he took a shot from outside fifty when there was no Melbourne player forward of him. You are right, he should have held it up and let all the Suns players get back. He almost kicked a supergoal ffs, it was touched on the line. When you talk about our forward line, perhaps your forget that in the two ganmes we played, we only played one half of our forwards. That is the beautry of an experimental game, such as NAB cup. I would like to see our forward line with Clark, Jurrah, Davey, Martin, Petterd and Watts in dry conditions. Once we see that I think we are all better placed to comment.

Try again chief.

And no, it wasn't touched on the line, it went left of the goals, so again you are wrong.

 

[cleveland]

Neither will be as good as Liam Jones

 

[MightyTiger]

Neither will be as good as Liam Jones

 

[Trav 20]

....

Just to answer one of your earlier queries regarding our forward line and fitting them all in - Howe has trained with the midfield group this preseason and has been earmarked for a wing, which is where he played in our intraclub match and in NAB 1. That said, you're right, there are plenty competing for spots.

It's the same in the backline. Morton was a standout in the intraclub down back, where he's trained all preseason. I'm not sure how Frawley, Morton, Sellar, Garland and Rivers all fit into the backline. In fact, they won't. Most here will say that Sellar won't be in our best 22, but I'm not so sure. Frawley and Garland are the only guarantees.

 

[Tingay02]

Try again chief.

And no, it wasn't touched on the line, it went left of the goals, so again you are wrong.

Ok Mighty Tigger i'll bite. Sadly you have memorised every 20 minutes of a game not involving your club. I tought you were talking about his other point, in any event, you said he didn't make the distance, is that incorrect? I think so, Chief!

Now next point, A guy plays a total of 50 odd minutes for the first time in a new team and kicks 1 G 2 B on a night where its pissing down rain and you reckon he isn't providing a target? There were a total of about 6 goals between all teams in the first 2 games. I reckon he was travelling alright, Cheif!

If you would like to wait, again, more than 50 minutes, before reading us all the bible according to Mighty Tigger and Danny Frawley I'll be happy to listen. I reckon you should add Brad Miller to this debate. I reckon he looked awesome for you guys, he and Reiwoldt to kick 150 between them!

BTW - Jonathan Brown hardly touched the footy. Had one free paid to him and had a shot from outside 50 and missed. Selfish bastard. He is definately finished on what I saw!

 

[cleveland]

Mitch Clark will have to play ruck to be effective.............there is a bit of a Jade Rawlings stench about Mitch.

 

[theflea]

bickering aside i reckon clark will kick more being the no1 target mostly. if he doesnt then maybe supply will be the problem or jurrah goes crazy.

 

[MightyTiger]

Ok Mighty Tigger i'll bite. Sadly you have memorised every 20 minutes of a game not involving your club. I tought you were talking about his other point, in any event, you said he didn't make the istance, is that incorrect? I think so, Chief!

My point still stands.

Now next point, A guy plays a total of 50 odd minutes for the first tiem in a new team and kicks 1 G 2 B on a night where its pissing down rain and you reckon he isn't proving a target? There were a total of about 6 goals between all teams in the first 2 games. I reckon he was travelling alright, Cheif!

I didn't say he didn't provide a target, I said, whether it be due to game plan or personnel, Melbourne played very wide, in which, it hardly straightened you up, considering that's what the majority of Melbourne supporters were telling us, I also said, that if it was game plan, then Melbourne don't have the skills or talent to carry out such a precise game plan that Collingwood played.

If you would like to wait, again, more than 50 minutes, before reading us all the bible according to Mighty Tigger and Danny Frawley I'll be happy to listen. I reckon you should add Brad Miller to this debate. I reckon he looked awesome for you guys, he and Reiwoldt to kick 150 between them!

So I cant form an opinion? It's not like I was calling the guy a dud or anything, just a few small things that I picked up on out of the game. Again though, if you want to nit pick at a couple things I said rather then everything I had discussed then go for it.

And what does Brad Miller have to do with this? A mature aged rookie pick on rookie pick wages, we aren't expecting the world of him, just expect him to play his role within the side, and, if he does so, all the more better for us.

 

[Tingay02]

My point still stands.



I didn't say he didn't provide a target, I said, whether it be due to game plan or personnel, Melbourne played very wide, in which, it hardly straightened you up, considering that's what the majority of Melbourne supporters were telling us, I also said, that if it was game plan, then Melbourne don't have the skills or talent to carry out such a precise game plan that Collingwood played.



So I cant form an opinion? It's not like I was calling the guy a dud or anything, just a few small things that I picked up on out of the game. Again though, if you want to nit pick at a couple things I said rather then everything I had discussed then go for it.

And what does Brad Miller have to do with this? A mature aged rookie pick on rookie pick wages, we aren't expecting the world of him, just expect him to play his role within the side, and, if he does so, all the more better for us.

I think the plan will be to go by foot along the boundary if the frontal press is restricting movement, i think the alternate is to run the ball by hand and short passes. However, on a night when it's pouring rain, there is a lot of fumbling in close, misshed handballs and scrappy in tight stuff. The result of which was, a lot of hack kicks from packs and sprayed kicks. I will concede that, but that is not the normal conditins you expect to play under. Neeld was keen to keep his 'structures' and ensure the team kept to his 'plan'. I don't think it wasa night for any side to gather much. Will you concede that? You do realising it was near monsoonal weather don't you? Question, based on stats was Clark the best of the big men out there that night>?

in case you give stuff, here is a link http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/dwo/IDCJDW4050.latest.shtml

The basic table might be hard for you to read, but basically it tells you that there was 79.4mm OF RAIN ON SATURDAY. About 60 odd mm's more than any other day this month. Also the strongest winds of the month. Whilst you may not have known it while you were sitting back in your rocking chair watching your 52" plasma, the conditions were atroscious.

As for starightening up, its clear that we will play wide this season. Staightening up does not mean always going centre corridor. It means having a central target to kick to on a lead or top of square that provides a contest. With jurrah roviing and davey running throught the fwd 50, we will see how he is worth.

 

[MightyTiger]

I think the plan will be to go by foot along the boundary if the frontal press is restricting movement, i think the alternate is to run the ball by hand and short passes. However, on a night when it's pouring rain, there is a lot of fumbling in close, misshed handballs and scrappy in tight stuff. The result of which was, a lot of hack kicks from packs and sprayed kicks. I will concede that, but that is not the normal conditins you expect to play under. Neeld was keen to keep his 'structures' and ensure the team kept to his 'plan'. I don't think it wasa night for any side to gather much. Will you concede that? You do realising it was near monsoonal weather don't you? Question, based on stats was Clark the best of the big men out there that night>?

You keep bringing that up thinking I'm an idiot, the first game there was barely any rain, slippery and wet yes, monsoonal, no. Second game it picked up a little but it only rained heavily in the last game between GC and Brisbane Lions.

in case you give stuff, here is a link http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/dwo/IDCJDW4050.latest.shtml

The basic table might be hard for you to read, but basically it tells you that there was 79.4mm OF RAIN ON SATURDAY. About 60 odd mm's more than any other day this month. Also the strongest winds of the month. Whilst you may not have known it while you were sitting back in your rocking chair watching your 52" plasma, the conditions were atroscious.

Try and keep the sarcasm to a minimal, I've shown you the respect, at least show some back.

As for starightening up, its clear that we will play wide this season. Staightening up does not mean always going centre corridor. It means having a central target to kick to on a lead or top of square that provides a contest. With jurrah roviing and davey running throught the fwd 50, we will see how he is worth.

When did I ever said Clark didn't straighten you up?

I think you need to go re-read some of my posts, and read it properly without seeing 1 or 2 things you disagree with and chucking a little tantrum.

 

[Toffee Lion]

*Clark.

Jurrah isn't a key forward markm, wouldn't really be a fair comparison for 2012.

And yet he kicked more goals then Clark did as a FF last year.