Mitch McGovern 2: As The Worm Turns (read the OP)

[AFC979810]

However, not sure what you're saying in the rest of it. The players quoted go back a long way and I disagree with this:
because it overlooks the many more players who have stayed with the Crows.
Re-signings like Sloane, Laird, Doedee and several other top players say much more that's positive than the grumblings from those who have left.

I can point you to 17 other clubs who kept great players.

I can point to a maximum of 4 other clubs that have lost the high end talent we have over the past 10 years. Thats a big problem.

 

[Scrogdogg]

No

Succinct.

 

[Scrogdogg]

Sorry to weigh in on this thread now (I promise I have read almost 15% of the posts here)....but this is a pet subject of mine and reinforces the amateur way the AFL has implemented free agency.

Firstly let me say I am a huge advocate of FA, draft and salary cap but not the mutant systems we have to deal with. So what is wrong with this system? Well for starters....

1. Tampering. Under no circumstance should a rival club be allowed to approach a contracted player, directly or indirectly. This should result in heavy sanctioning against the tampering club. It is subjective, but I have no doubt contract conversations (it is the player's livelihood after all) can adversely effect a players performance. Whilst we are at it, the AFL should remind the media that tampering extends to them and a player's contractual status should not become the main talking point during the coverage of a game (that's looking at you Brian Taylor).
2. If players want to to be able to break contracts then so should clubs. See how the list cloggers go then if a club has the ability to cut their under performing arses anytime.
3. Why should a club get trade value for an unrestricted free agent who leaves? The club retains no rights over the player as he is un-contracted? This is contract law 101.
4. Restricted free agency is a good thing. Allows the club who drafted the player to gain maximum return on the player within a reasonable time frame.
5. Further on tampering....If players want to test free agency and see what they are worth then take the risk and actually get to free agency, the only leverage a player's current club has in retaining is they should be the only club allowed to negotiate a new contract whilst the player is on their list. Then it is a case of the bird in the hand versus the unknown of a true free market. But since every manager already has a rival club offer in his pocket that risk no longer applies.
6. Clubs should be able to trade contracted players anywhere they want without the permission of the player. We happily send teenagers anywhere in the country through the national draft without their permission but are not prepared to do the same for senior players?

Anyway, just my 2 cents worth.

End rant.

Just 1. How do you stop/control clubs talking to agents at any time ?

 

[jenny61_99]

Everything is gravy. No need for discussion. People in charge are flawless. We as a club can bask in doing no wrong and celebrate our greatness!

Well that’s just weird.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Not too worried. Statistically, any group of 10 young players is likely to see 2-3 that either never kick on as projected, or suffer a serious enough injury that they don't recapture what they could have been. Setterfield may well fall into one of those camps, even if he makes it to Carlton - only 2 games on the clock and a big injury already.

On a tangent, I always get Marchbank and Plowman mixed up and I get the feeling one of them isn't very good, but I can't work out which one.

Plowman

 

[Sanders]

FWIW I think the whole retention thing comes back to being perennially competitive. Means we're always near the maximum of the cap and always vulnerable to someone coming over the top with a substantially larger monetary offer.

Aside from Gunston, all the departing "stars" were reportedly offered substantially larger deals than what we offered them.

WCE/Fre/PA have all had significant bottoming out periods.

WCE for example have had 4 grand finals and 2 flags in the last 12 years.

Seems to me they’re doing something right

 

[Sanders]

Not to plan but not to worry, still time to do better than PA

Shiel was a huge surprise

Not over YET

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

Phew

 

[Sanders]

the AFL body needs to flex it's muscle and force the ALFPA to back off

That’s not how it works with a strong union

 

[Sanders]

Surely there’s no need for this thread anymore? McGovern McGone.

Why do you care?

 

[Southerntakeover]

In countries where they don't have the same industrial relations laws as we do.

Please elaborate

 

[Jeffcrowe]

WCE for example have had 4 grand finals and 2 flags in the last 12 years.

Seems to me they’re doing something right

We as a club are basically like West Coast ‘lite’

Pretty close in alot of ways without having the ruthless culture that delivers ultimate success

We are too safe and conservative

 

[1991firstgamer]

Keeping him was not an option.
Pyke had a good man talk with him and decided he had to go
With his injury record 13 was about right
His talent and potential suggests 5 to 10 .
Club really should try to get into top 5 now with all the picks it has
Only then will the whole exercise be a success

Sent from my SM-J730G using Tapatalk

 

[Stepover]

Pyke to me is like a soul less corporate manager. A dull speaker who could not motivate me at his best.

Unless you are part of the playing group how is this relevant.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sanders]

Please elaborate

Oh you joker you.

 

[FAITH]

Surely there’s no need for this thread anymore? McGovern McGone.

deaneus

 

[Mr_Moogle]

deaneus
View attachment 572526

You eat pieces of shit for breakfast?

 

[ABAB]

We as a club are basically like West Coast ‘lite’

Pretty close in alot of ways without having the ruthless culture that delivers ultimate success

We are too safe and conservative

We had our chance to win the premierships multiple times and weren't good enough, mind you they were our nemesis in 05/06 where they won the premiership in 06 and played in the Grand Final 05.

 

[WAG]

Contracts really are dead in this era. McGovern signs a deal and 12 months later (or less) wants out.

Meanwhile at Hawthorn, Burton who signed a contract extension until the end of 2020 last year, is reportedly put up for trade (while OS and without his consent).

Where is the AFL headed?

 

[FR0GGY]

FWIW I think the whole retention thing comes back to being perennially competitive. Means we're always near the maximum of the cap and always vulnerable to someone coming over the top with a substantially larger monetary offer.

Aside from Gunston, all the departing "stars" were reportedly offered substantially larger deals than what we offered them.

WCE/Fre/PA have all had significant bottoming out periods.

Not only that, when you pay structure is relatively even you will always lose the top end players as they are getting unders, also at risk of losing the up and coming stars that are getting less than their talent suggests they should, basically we will never lose the mid to bottom end players that are getting well paid.

 

[ad victoriam]

You listed 21 additional players.

Maybe, just maybe you could revise your list to exclude dinosaurs who were done at their clubs and the clubs wanted to get rid of:

Cloke - 30 years old and Collingwood got pick 76 for him. *
Brown - They received no compo. Thats how valuable he was. *
Seedsman - Pick 32
Ellis.- Played 16 games over 3 seasons before being traded because he couldn't get a game. *
Suckling - Pick 39 as compo.
Lewis - Blockbuster trade. 30 year old lewis and picks 57 and 68 for picks 48 and 66. *
Mummy - Pick 35. *
Jessie F*Ckn White - Pick 44.
Malceski - They received a late 2nd round pick for the 30 year old. *
Membrey - Please tell me you didn't include him. The Tim Membrey that played one game and then was delisted and picked up by the Saints? FFS.
Nankervis - traded for a 3rd rounder.
Lynch - Eagles got pick 62 for the departing 30 year old.*
Stevens - 3rd round pick
Rosa - Pick 31.

14 of your 21 list means F all. They are all afterthoughts. The 14 players above would not be worth Dangerfield alone when they were traded.

Shit - if I wanted to compare crappy players clubs have lost to trades - I would have included Kerridge, Lyons, Wright, Mattner, Hendo, et al.

FYI - * represents old players who won a flag at their club they were leaving when they were so so so so old.

Lets be honest its a terrible list.

I will say though - you raise a point with Collingwood. They lost a hell of a lot of talent when Bucks took over. At least that was a cull/change of culture. He was wrong to disassemble the 2nd youngest premiership of all time, but his methods seem okay considering he should have won in 2018. 2019 will be a real confirmation whether he did the right thing.

The other club that we should be compared to is Brisbane. Lost Billy Longer, Patrick Karnezis, Elliot Yeo, Sam Docherty, Jared Polec, James Aish, Jack Redden, Joel Patful in a 3 year period. At least they acknowledged it.

All that says is the Crows are better at Horse trading than those 4 clubs.
If you want I can find more names, after all you did fail to add a few top players and slanted the selection to suit your argument. works both ways.
What are the Rules how many games they played, what they cost, maybe the value at the time?
So according to you only 7 of the name players were any good, that still make 15 when added to your list of 8.
And we can easily dispute a few of the player you don't rate, A few of those players you mention left because they did not get games or had issues with the Coach. ring any bells.
All clubs lose players, some they don't want to lose. but it happens and will keep on happening.

 

[Samcro24]

Contracts really are dead in this era. McGovern signs a deal and 12 months later (or less) wants out.

Meanwhile at Hawthorn, Burton who signed a contract extension until the end of 2020 last year, is reportedly put up for trade (while OS and without his consent).

Where is the AFL headed?

He's spewing about it too, so its been reported.

 

[Red mist]

He’ll be back.

 

[Red mist]

All that says is the Crows are better at Horse trading than those 4 clubs.
If you want I can find more names, after all you did fail to add a few top players and slanted the selection to suit your argument. works both ways.
What are the Rules how many games they played, what they cost, maybe the value at the time?
So according to you only 7 of the name players were any good, that still make 15 when added to your list of 8.
And we can easily dispute a few of the player you don't rate, A few of those players you mention left because they did not get games or had issues with the Coach. ring any bells.
All clubs lose players, some they don't want to lose. but it happens and will keep on happening.

We are an absolute bird feeder. Shockingly so.
Corporate franchise too busy with an archaic pay model and a admin and board that give each other pats on the back while the assets bail.
The CEO has no control and created revenue without any say in the footy department.
It’s a shemozzle. Shit show.
Every single high position in Admin is a favourite son or son of without chops.
Over it until real change occurs we’ll keep on leaking.

 

[ad victoriam]

We are an absolute bird feeder. Shockingly so.
Corporate franchise too busy with an archaic pay model and a admin and board that give each other pats on the back while the assets bail.
The CEO has no control and created revenue without any say in the footy department.
It’s a shemozzle. Shit show.
Every single high position in Admin is a favourite son or son of without chops.
Over it until real change occurs we’ll keep on leaking.

You do understand we use the same model and Pay structure as Geelong and Hawthorn. But yea maybe it is outdated.
As for the rest of shit, you wrote I just delete a long response because of what's the use. People like you will never change,
And don't bother with a crap reply because I don't care, I am going to enjoy the trade period and Draft.

 

[FR0GGY]

You do understand we use the same model and Pay structure as Geelong and Hawthorn. But yea maybe it is outdated.
As for the rest of shit, you wrote I just delete a long response because of what's the use. People like you will never change,
And don't bother with a crap reply because I don't care, I am going to enjoy the trade period and Draft.

Geelong have rich benefactors who can help out players financially. I’m sure hawthorn has methods too. Remember Chad wanted 1mill a year.