List Mgmt. Morning, Joe! (was The Daniher (Probably Mega-)thread)

[60sbomber]

Daniher shouldn't be going because of the medical support staff. If he had issues with how his injury was handled they should all be in the past. Essendon's conditioning head is new this year (Crow gone) and Daniher's injury is now right, it seems. It is highly unlikely it was mishandled anyway (that is a long story) but Joe could possibly see it that way. His reason for going according to him is to get out of the Melbourne football bubble, where every thing he does is blown into a headline. He moved to Daylesford this year seemingly to help in that regard. The Sydney move was supposed to be for that reason.
Secondly, why Brisbane? Well there is a lot of doubt about how much Sydney really wanted him. Harley did, but not so clear that Longmire did. They didn't try all that hard last year to get the trade done (depending on your point of view, i suppose). Maybe they were only lukewarm this year.

Lastly, Joe is a mixed blessing. Forget the injury for a minute. He has lots of flaws. You're about to find out. His best is spectacular, but there is a lot of very poor stuff that goes with it, not the least being his terrible set shot kicking. He can't survive a body on body marking contest at all. I saw someone on here say he could be like Hawkins or Dixon. Forget it. He has to jump or lead, or he won't mark it. I could go on. You get the picturre. Can be very very good or very very bad.

 

[ZoBlitz]

I think the amount of damage one player can do to a club is overrated, especially if the club has a robust culture already.

Fev is the classic example thrown around but the Fev issues really snowballed by us overpaying, us doubling down on him as some kind of saviour, and then basically running him out of the club instead of trying to manage some combination of alcoholism and mental health issues. So terrible management by the club as much as the player causing anything.

In his autobiography Leigh talks about how a club can probably handle one "problem" player, but it's when you have a couple to feed off each other that you can have issues. His example was Heuskes and his self-destruction when his mate Stefan Carey arrived at the club.

 

[JasRulz63]

Daniher shouldn't be going because of the medical support staff. If he had issues with how his injury was handled they should all be in the past. Essendon's conditioning head is new this year (Crow gone) and Daniher's injury is now right, it seems. It is highly unlikely it was mishandled anyway (that is a long story) but Joe could possibly see it that way. His reason for going according to him is to get out of the Melbourne football bubble, where every thing he does is blown into a headline. He moved to Daylesford this year seemingly to help in that regard. The Sydney move was supposed to be for that reason.
Secondly, why Brisbane? Well there is a lot of doubt about how much Sydney really wanted him. Harley did, but not so clear that Longmire did. They didn't try all that hard last year to get the trade done (depending on your point of view, i suppose). Maybe they were only lukewarm this year.

Lastly, Joe is a mixed blessing. Forget the injury for a minute. He has lots of flaws. You're about to find out. His best is spectacular, but there is a lot of very poor stuff that goes with it, not the least being his terrible set shot kicking. He can't survive a body on body marking contest at all. I saw someone on here say he could be like Hawkins or Dixon. Forget it. He has to jump or lead, or he won't mark it. I could go on. You get the picturre. Can be very very good or very very bad.

I'd argue offering up pick 9 and a future first (which was likely to be good given they finished bottom 4 last year) is trying pretty hard to get the trade done, especially because they only get pick 9 by parting with Papley. It also made no sense for Brisbane to try and chase him last year. We didn't have the trade capital for it and it would've been a waste of everyone's time.

I still think the biggest reason he's choosing to leave Essendon is to move out of the bubble. Being 1.5 hours away from Melbourne doesn't really get you away from the bubble. Brisbane makes as much sense as Sydney in that respect, plus at Brisbane he can play in a contending team where he doesn't have to be the best player (playing at Sydney, all the pressure is on him if Buddy is out). He also doesn't fit Sydney's timeline which might make Sydney reconsider, and they're already paying Buddy $1mil+. I think the good medical team adds to the appeal of Brisbane as opposed to being the sole reason, and he knows our Head of Medical from Essendon which helps. Certainly doesn't hurt that our medical team have a good record so far.

I think the benefit we have is that we don't need Daniher to be a star. We already have a forward line that led the top scoring side in 2019 and 3rd in 2020. We just need him to play his role which is to compete at marking contests around the goal and offer an option up forward alongside what we already have. We don't need him (although it'd be nice) to kick a bag every week. I do agree that the set shot kicking is an issue and he essentially defaults to snapping the ball anywhere within 50m. He does seem to take (and miss) a lot of shots from 50+ on an angle.

He did take 9 contested marks in 4 games. That would've put him in our top 10 for total contested marks, and we're 5th as a team for contested marks.

 

[Dalions]

His reason for going according to him is to get out of the Melbourne football bubble

Or could it be, that he just wants to get out of Essendon?

 

[PattyKwasagun]

I'm also not sure I'd say Daniher has an ego problem. If anything, I think he has struggled with the weight his surname carries and the fact Essendon have wanted him to be their saviour.

To move to a country town as he has done in Victoria is not generally something I'd associate with somebody who has an ego problem. Wanting to play in Brisbane where you'll be largely anonymous would suggest the same. I think he wants to get out of the spotlight and feels quite compelled by the environment of the club - a place you can enjoy playing, play on instinct, work in a supportive and collaborative environment, and then be able to leave work at the door when you leave (at least, much more than you can in Melbourne).

No matter how successful we are, playing for Brisbane will mean you're going to miss out on the perks of playing in any of the major footy states. There'll be much fewer endorsement deals, media spots, access to exclusive events, and all the other general hype that comes with playing in a place where footy is everything.

If Joe had an ego problem, I think he'd be looking at any club other than the ones in the northern states. The fact that he is keen to come to us suggests to me that after nearly a decade of being labelled Essendon's saviour and being known everywhere he goes, he just wants to enjoy playing footy again as one member of a team in a nice place to live.

 

[jackess]

I'm also not sure I'd say Daniher has an ego problem. If anything, I think he has struggled with the weight his surname carries and the fact Essendon have wanted him to be their saviour.

To move to a country town as he has done in Victoria is not generally something I'd associate with somebody who has an ego problem. Wanting to play in Brisbane where you'll be largely anonymous would suggest the same. I think he wants to get out of the spotlight and feels quite compelled by the environment of the club - a place you can enjoy playing, play on instinct, work in a supportive and collaborative environment, and then be able to leave work at the door when you leave (at least, much more than you can in Melbourne).

No matter how successful we are, playing for Brisbane will mean you're going to miss out on the perks of playing in any of the major footy states. There'll be much fewer endorsement deals, media spots, access to exclusive events, and all the other general hype that comes with playing in a place where footy is everything.

If Joe had an ego problem, I think he'd be looking at any club other than the ones in the northern states. The fact that he is keen to come to us suggests to me that after nearly a decade of being labelled Essendon's saviour and being known everywhere he goes, he just wants to enjoy playing footy again as one member of a team in a nice place to live.

He seems to really enjoy playing footy as well. He'll thrive in the right environment if his body holds up.

 

[PattyKwasagun]

He seems to really enjoy playing footy as well. He'll thrive in the right environment if his body holds up.

Yep - it's why I think he's probably quite attracted to playing under Fagan. We're yet to know if it will lead us to a flag or not, but central to Fages' approach seems to be giving his players freedom to play on instinct more than many other coaches seem to, and also making sure throughout each element of training, games, and every other facet of club life that enjoyment of what they're doing is a priority.

Can imagine Joe would constantly have felt weighed down by expectation and pressure over his career so far. Initially the pressure of his surname, then the pressure of being the glimmer of hope amidst the drugs crisis, then being the marquee player who they're building a team around to push for a flag, then the pressure of them needing him to get his body right for them to be competitive. All at a big Melbourne club with a sense of entitlement to success and a growingly frustrated and angry fanbase that they've had to wait so long. Seems the worst possible mix for someone who just wants to enjoy their footy.

There's been so little of his footy life where he's been able to just play with freedom. There has been a bit of reporting this week that he's quite excited by the idea of not being the marquee player up here - of slotting into a team with a few All Australians, a likely Brownlow medallist, and even into a forward line alongside Charlie with all the hype he has but also the promise of Hipwood and a number 1 draft pick in Rayner. There'll be some pressure, but it's not all on him by any stretch. He won't be our marquee player (at least, not our only one), and he probably won't become the major fan favourite. Going to be hard to take that mantle off Charlie I think.

Joe strikes me as the kind of player who just needs the right environment and the right lifestyle to perform at his best. It's why I think the sitting on the fence photos from a few weeks ago actually should encourage our list management team rather than put them off. I don't think it shows laziness or a poor attitude, but I do think it shows a player who doesn't see footy as the be all and end all of life and whose approach to life is a bit more laidback and who only needs the right environment to thrive. It's the perfect match for him and for us I think.

 

[FLVanLandingham]

Lester’s interview yesterday was interesting. He said he has had to learn to be a bit more selfish and it’s improved his game. I think mcstay is in that boat. Doesn’t yet have the confidence to dominate even though he has formidable ‘weapons’. Fagan will keep at him and he’ll be our next Lester.

central to Fages' approach seems to be giving his players freedom to play on instinct more than many other coaches seem to, and also making sure throughout each element of training, games, and every other facet of club life that enjoyment of what they're doing is a priority.

There was also an interview where a player mentioned how Fages wants them to keep their 'flair', and still be a team player. I find this really interesting, but it carries on from how Fagan has spoken about how we're in the entertainment industry etc. It makes me sad to think how players like Rich/Lester could have had a different career if Fagan had gotten to them earlier (maybe..)

Something you can certainly say about Joe is he (when fit) enjoys his footy. I used to think he looked like a giddy kid in a mans body at times, but with his skils it was really enjoyable to watch. Providing the trade goes through, and Joe can get onto the park with at least a majority of his past skill/enjoyment, I will be happy.

Also how lucky are we that our selling point to attract players is pretty awesome. The known issues of training location (soon to change right.. !??) and lack of additional moneys (above board or otherwise..) can be countered with a really solid group of people working really well together

 

[Nuggo]

I wonder if in the right environment with not the pressure of having to kick 3+ goals a game his set shots might improve. Some times things aren't as bad as they seem (or as good)....gotta love some of Leigh's quotes.

 

[beardancer]

In a previous post I said I'd be offering 100k and a packet of Horizon 50s...........take it of leave it. I really haven't shifted my opinion. To me he's a good player at best, at worst he's a boat anchor. I think as big O matures he could spend more and more time as a goal square full forward.....do we need another one?

 

[weevil]

he probably won't become the major fan favourite.

100% with you except for this bit.

 

[Nuggo]

100% with you except for this bit.

Was thinking that myself. If he fires, look out.

 

[BangyBangy]

In a previous post I said I'd be offering 100k and a packet of Horizon 50s...........take it of leave it. I really haven't shifted my opinion. To me he's a good player at best, at worst he's a boat anchor. I think as big O matures he could spend more and more time as a goal square full forward.....do we need another one?

Nope. Just nope. As he improves / matures, he'll just cement his place as the #1 ruck.

 

[Nunez]

100% with you except for this bit.

For me it comes down to whether he keeps the moustache or not.

 

[Tom14]

Anyone got a newscorp subscription and can let us know what Jon Ralph’s story today about us being willing to walk away if the bombers match?

 

[jackess]

Anyone got a newscorp subscription and can let us know what Jon Ralph’s story today about us being willing to walk away if the bombers match?

That would just be us posturing, right?

 

[Squizz89]

Brisbane has made clear it is not prepared to trade for free agent Joe Daniher, adamant it will walk away and retain its two first-round picks if Essendon threatens to match its offer.

Essendon would ideally secure pick 7 as free agency compensation to smooth Daniher’s path north, but the Lions’ offer is likely to fall short of that first-round return.

It could mean Essendon would receive only an end-of-first-round compensation pick, and would consider matching the bid, trying to retain Daniher for the second straight season.

But Essendon would then potentially lose Daniher for nothing if it matched a free agency bid because he could then walk into the pre-season draft, where Sydney has the third overall pick.

Sydney remains interested in Daniher despite losing out to the Lions and would snap him up in a heartbeat.

He requested a trade to Sydney last year and despite their low-profile approach this year, the Swans continued to pitch to Daniher for his services.

It means the Dons will have to consider whether an end-of-first-round selection for Daniher is better than nothing.

The Lions’ brilliant injury management has turned around the careers of Grant Birchall and Lincoln McCarthy, with Geelong’s Nakia Cockatoo and Daniher their next restoration projects.

Yet the Lions will have to play a delicate game of brinkmanship to secure Daniher as a free agent given Essendon’s determination to get maximum value from his loss.

The Herald Sun reported this week only guaranteed money in a contract is used to assess the free agency compensation for a departing player.

In an ideal world the Dons would secure pick 7 for Daniher and move on.

But the closest parallel is the end-of-first-round compensation handed to Brisbane when Tom Rockliff signed a four-year deal with Port Adelaide on around $650,000-$700,000 a season.

Daniher’s deal will not be dissimilar in guaranteed money — with more based on incentives — meaning it is hard to see how it would be worthy of first-round compensation immediately after Essendon’s No.6 selection.

Daniher has told some friends he would like to play more ruck at Brisbane because it frees him up to get up the ground.

But Brisbane is planning to recruit him as a key forward who they believe can play alongside Eric Hipwood and Dan McStay.

The Herald Sun understands Brisbane coach Chris Fagan has spoken to his key forwards to assure them he wants Daniher to play alongside them.

Brisbane customarily plays two rucks in Stef Martin and Oscar McInerney, so something may have to give instead of playing five key talls in the ruck and attack.

But Fagan continues to reassure his forwards they are all required in his system in 2021.

 

[BuntonRules]

All the above says to me that he just wants to be a Daniher. Look at his old man, and uncles - just country boys that loved footy.

 

[Tom14]

That would just be us posturing, right?

Yeah I tend to think so.

Brisbane has made clear it is not prepared to trade for free agent Joe Daniher, adamant it will walk away and retain its two first-round picks if Essendon threatens to match its offer.

Essendon would ideally secure pick 7 as free agency compensation to smooth Daniher’s path north, but the Lions’ offer is likely to fall short of that first-round return.

It could mean Essendon would receive only an end-of-first-round compensation pick, and would consider matching the bid, trying to retain Daniher for the second straight season.

But Essendon would then potentially lose Daniher for nothing if it matched a free agency bid because he could then walk into the pre-season draft, where Sydney has the third overall pick.

Sydney remains interested in Daniher despite losing out to the Lions and would snap him up in a heartbeat.

He requested a trade to Sydney last year and despite their low-profile approach this year, the Swans continued to pitch to Daniher for his services.

It means the Dons will have to consider whether an end-of-first-round selection for Daniher is better than nothing.

The Lions’ brilliant injury management has turned around the careers of Grant Birchall and Lincoln McCarthy, with Geelong’s Nakia Cockatoo and Daniher their next restoration projects.

Yet the Lions will have to play a delicate game of brinkmanship to secure Daniher as a free agent given Essendon’s determination to get maximum value from his loss.

The Herald Sun reported this week only guaranteed money in a contract is used to assess the free agency compensation for a departing player.

In an ideal world the Dons would secure pick 7 for Daniher and move on.

But the closest parallel is the end-of-first-round compensation handed to Brisbane when Tom Rockliff signed a four-year deal with Port Adelaide on around $650,000-$700,000 a season.

Daniher’s deal will not be dissimilar in guaranteed money — with more based on incentives — meaning it is hard to see how it would be worthy of first-round compensation immediately after Essendon’s No.6 selection.

Daniher has told some friends he would like to play more ruck at Brisbane because it frees him up to get up the ground.

But Brisbane is planning to recruit him as a key forward who they believe can play alongside Eric Hipwood and Dan McStay.

The Herald Sun understands Brisbane coach Chris Fagan has spoken to his key forwards to assure them he wants Daniher to play alongside them.

Brisbane customarily plays two rucks in Stef Martin and Oscar McInerney, so something may have to give instead of playing five key talls in the ruck and attack.

But Fagan continues to reassure his forwards they are all required in his system in 2021.

Thanks for posting - I was particularly interested in the last bit about our plans to play all 3 of Daniher, McStay and Hipwood.

 

[notliondown]

Yep - it's why I think he's probably quite attracted to playing under Fagan. We're yet to know if it will lead us to a flag or not, but central to Fages' approach seems to be giving his players freedom to play on instinct more than many other coaches seem to, and also making sure throughout each element of training, games, and every other facet of club life that enjoyment of what they're doing is a priority.

Can imagine Joe would constantly have felt weighed down by expectation and pressure over his career so far. Initially the pressure of his surname, then the pressure of being the glimmer of hope amidst the drugs crisis, then being the marquee player who they're building a team around to push for a flag, then the pressure of them needing him to get his body right for them to be competitive. All at a big Melbourne club with a sense of entitlement to success and a growingly frustrated and angry fanbase that they've had to wait so long. Seems the worst possible mix for someone who just wants to enjoy their footy.

There's been so little of his footy life where he's been able to just play with freedom. There has been a bit of reporting this week that he's quite excited by the idea of not being the marquee player up here - of slotting into a team with a few All Australians, a likely Brownlow medallist, and even into a forward line alongside Charlie with all the hype he has but also the promise of Hipwood and a number 1 draft pick in Rayner. There'll be some pressure, but it's not all on him by any stretch. He won't be our marquee player (at least, not our only one), and he probably won't become the major fan favourite. Going to be hard to take that mantle off Charlie I think.

Joe strikes me as the kind of player who just needs the right environment and the right lifestyle to perform at his best. It's why I think the sitting on the fence photos from a few weeks ago actually should encourage our list management team rather than put them off. I don't think it shows laziness or a poor attitude, but I do think it shows a player who doesn't see footy as the be all and end all of life and whose approach to life is a bit more laidback and who only needs the right environment to thrive. It's the perfect match for him and for us I think.

Thanks mate, this makes me feel miles better. I have no doubt his name, Essendon itself and the weight of expectation have taken a toll on him - how could it not given the scandals and yet being heralded as a messiah all rolled into one.

What I hadn't realised was the extent of his efforts to escape those things and I had under estimated the simple basic truism of enjoying what you do and how he's simply not.

Maybe we are the right fit for him and visa versa. I don't see him as a saviour and as you rightly point out we don't need him to be.

 

[M Malice]

If true I'd be happy with that, take the 2 first rounders to the draft and if possible trade them to move up and grab an elite talent, OR we could have a yet unknown A grade trade target they want to use those picks for.

 

[Sproj]

That can be part of our negotiations for Joe. Heaps of key forwards on the market.

Absolutely agree. Dodoro plays hard ball, we see meh whatever, we're going after Brown / Cameron / Hogan. See you later buddy.

 

[JasRulz63]

Can imagine Joe would constantly have felt weighed down by expectation and pressure over his career so far. Initially the pressure of his surname, then the pressure of being the glimmer of hope amidst the drugs crisis, then being the marquee player who they're building a team around to push for a flag, then the pressure of them needing him to get his body right for them to be competitive. All at a big Melbourne club with a sense of entitlement to success and a growingly frustrated and angry fanbase that they've had to wait so long. Seems the worst possible mix for someone who just wants to enjoy their footy.

2012 - drafted as a high rated F/S. Left foot tall forward so immediately compared to Lloyd, Lucas and Salmon.
2013 - ASADA supplements scandal begins. Leading goal kicker Crameri leaves at the end of the season. Hird banned for 12 months.
2014 - Essendon's no. 1 forward target (as a 20yo); leads their goal kicking. Kicks 4 goals in a EF.
2015 - Essendon's no. 1 forward and leads the goal kicking again. WADA announces their appeal early in the season, Essendon's form drops off a cliff. Hird resigns.
2016 - WADA bans 12 senior players at Essendon replaced with VFL players. Leads the goal kicking again.
2017 - All-Australian, 3rd in Coleman, B&F. Essendon loads up senior players to make a push up the ladder.
2018 - Starts the season slowly, angry man Goddard openly yells at players on field, scans after round 7 shows osteitis pubis. Decision made not to have surgery.
2019 - Breaks down again. Sent for surgery mid-season.

Like you said, it's been a tricky place to be if all you want to do is enjoy your footy. He's essentially had one season (his best season) that wasn't impacted by the ASADA scandal or injury.

 

[Gadzorks]

2012 - drafted as a high rated F/S. Left foot tall forward so immediately compared to Lloyd, Lucas and Salmon.
2013 - ASADA supplements scandal begins. Leading goal kicker Crameri leaves at the end of the season. Hird banned for 12 months.
2014 - Essendon's no. 1 forward target (as a 20yo); leads their goal kicking. Kicks 4 goals in a EF.
2015 - Essendon's no. 1 forward and leads the goal kicking again. WADA announces their appeal early in the season, Essendon's form drops off a cliff. Hird resigns.
2016 - WADA bans 12 senior players at Essendon replaced with VFL players. Leads the goal kicking again.
2017 - All-Australian, 3rd in Coleman, B&F. Essendon loads up senior players to make a push up the ladder.
2018 - Starts the season slowly, angry man Goddard openly yells at players on field, scans after round 7 shows osteitis pubis. Decision made not to have surgery.
2019 - Breaks down again. Sent for surgery mid-season.

Like you said, it's been a tricky place to be if all you want to do is enjoy your footy. He's essentially had one season (his best season) that wasn't impacted by the ASADA scandal or injury.

That reads like a recipe for falling out of love with the game. Surely Essendon can see that he’s been flogged and he’s done. Even if he doesn’t end up with us, he shouldn’t be at Essendon next year. Hope he can get a few good seasons in

 

[PattyKwasagun]

That reads like a recipe for falling out of love with the game. Surely Essendon can see that he’s been flogged and he’s done. Even if he doesn’t end up with us, he shouldn’t be at Essendon next year. Hope he can get a few good seasons in

Yep, completely agree. I think if anybody had that sort of disruption, pressure, expectation, drama, and toxicity in their work life, they would struggle to perform at their best and would be keen for a fresh start somewhere else. Getting Joe up here where he can enjoy a stable and supportive environment and just be a normal person outside of it (more camping trips like the one he's on maybe) probably sounds like a dream to him after all he's lived through so far.

It is funny to think back on all the years we thought nobody would move here because our facilities couldn't compete with those of other teams. Ultimately it's all just culture and success that matters.