List Mgmt. Morning, Joe! (was The Daniher (Probably Mega-)thread)
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Nunez
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Bombers fans write their own narrative. Big part of the reason they're about to have an exodus.
Your initial point was why bother giving up a late first round pick and something else smaller when we could pay him extra and get him for free, but then also subsequently play down the value of a late first round pick.
Given how little a late first rounder seems to be worth (according to you), is there a chance we value the security of offering a smaller guaranteed component over said draft picks?
Maybe the onus is on Dodo to creativily grease the wheels a bit to make it worthwhile for us to offer enough for a band 1 pick.
I'm not sure what Brisbane is valuing more out of the security of a smaller guaranteed component, or a late 1st round pick...……..because they are not offering to give up either.
As I understand it, Brisbane have said they won't increase the base salary, so yes, they value that increased base amount required to generate band 1 compo, highly.
But they've also said they won't trade a late 1st round pick, so they value that highly too.
Both are valued higher, it seems, than Daniher is.
I'm of the opinion that the increase in base salary required is of less value than the pick, and so Brisbane should prefer that option. But I don't value the pick very highly either.
And yes, I completely agree that if there is a way Dodoro can "grease the wheels" to make it worthwhile for Brisbane to offer enough for a band 1 pick, he should do it. I just don't have any idea how he could do that. Any ideas yourself?
I wouldn't read too much into what's coming out of the media right now. Neither Brisbane or Essendon have said anything beyond the fact that he's leaving and the club's will work it when it's time to do so.
Conveniently the media has run with the stance from both sides that would generate the most amount of interest and discussion i.e. Essendon will match and Brisbane won't trade.
I think from both clubs' perspective, it doesn't make sense to leave a compensation pick from the AFL on the table. It's essentially a free, at worst, end of first round pick on the table. I suspect Noble and Dodoro will work out how best to utilise that fact.
What are you talking about? This is awesome.
We've gone from the hunted to the hunter
Personally I'm disappointed the trade period is short & so close to the end of the season.
To all the other clubs who's carcasses we're now feasting upon - fix ya culture.
That might be a slight exaggeration.
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Imagine how shit life would be if Dodoro was in charge of your list. No way an organisation with an eye for culture would let an ego like that run things at trade time.
There won’t be a trade. The guy has said he wants out two years in a row. No way they keep him. Lions don’t need to trade.
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Rockcliff did a fair job of screwing the clubs culture on his own.
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It's been really weird watching lions fans on the trades board bingo people with
-Fix ya culcha
-We will just take him in the PSD
-Restraint of trade.
Less frustrating when the shoe is on the other foot
-Fix ya culcha
-We will just take him in the PSD
-Restraint of trade.
Less frustrating when the shoe is on the other foot
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The below extract is from the current "Collective Bargaining Agreement" and is in place until 2022
It replaces the one ending 2016 which people and media appear to keep referring to as it is easily Googled.
However i do not know if the Covid 19 year has changed some of the set policies
The bolded parts and some change of text have been done by me
A possible mega thread so a mega post from me . Jump to page 114 regarding Restricted Free Agents
.............
Page 112
Annexure D – Free Agency Rules
1. Free Agency
1.1 Free Agents
(a) Unless a Player is a Restricted Free Agent, a Player who:
(i) is party to a Contract of Service with a Club that expires on or prior to 31
October in a particular year (relevant year); and
(ii) prior to or upon the expiration of the Contract of Service referred to in Rule
1.1(a)(i), has been on that Club’s Primary and/or Rookie List for eight or
more consecutive AFL Seasons,
(b) will be a Free Agent in the relevant year.
(c) A Player who:
(i) is on the Primary List of a Club; and
(ii) subject to Rule 1.1(e), is removed from the Primary List by that Club on or
before the final list lodgement date in a particular year (relevant year);
(d) will be a Free Agent in the relevant year.
(e) A Player who elects to retire or has lodged a ‘Player Request for Removal from a
List’ form in the form prescribed in Schedule 1 as Form 40 of the AFL Rules, will
not be a Free Agent under Rule 1.1(c) in the relevant year.
(f) A Player who:
(i) is a Rookie Player in a particular year (relevant year); and
(ii) subject to Rule 1.1(h), has not received an offer from his Current Club to
enter into a Contract of Service for a further period of one year,
(g) will be a Free Agent in the relevant year.
(h) A Player who is a second year Rookie Player and receives an offer from his Current
Club to be retained as a third year Rookie Player but does not accept that offer will
be a Free Agent in the relevant year.
(i) By the date nominated by the AFL, each Club must submit a list of Rookies who
did not accept an offer for a Contract of Service for a further term using the form
prescribed in Schedule 1 as Form 40A.
1.2 Restricted Free Agents
(a) Subject to Rule 1.2(b), a Player who:
(i) otherwise meets the criteria under Rule 1.1(a) in a particular year (relevant
year); and
Page 113
(ii) as at the date determined by the AFL under Rule 1.3 (relevant date), is
entitled to Guaranteed Payments for the relevant year that places that
Player:
(A) where a Club has 40 Players on its Primary List as at the relevant
date, within the top 10 ranked Players on the Club’s Primary List; or
(B) where a Club has less than 40 Players on its Primary List as at the
relevant date, within the top 9 ranked Players on the Club’s Primary
List;
(C) in respect of Guaranteed Payments for the relevant year, such
rankings to be determined by the AFL,
will be a Restricted Free Agent in the relevant year.
(b) A Player who meets the criteria under Rule 1.2(a) will not be a Restricted Free
Agent, and will be a Free Agent, in a particular year where both of the following
apply:
(i) his Contract of Service expires on or before 31 October in a particular year
being equal to or greater than his tenth consecutive year as a Player on the
Primary and/or Rookie List of the Player’s Current Club; and
(ii) he has already entered into a new Contract of Service with his Current Club
once following 1 March in his eighth consecutive AFL Season on the Primary
and/or Rookie List of that Club.
1.3 List of Free Agents and Restricted Free Agents
(a) On a date determined by the AFL prior to the commencement of the first round of
Home and Away Matches in each AFL Season the AFL will notify Clubs and the
AFLPA of the list of all Free Agents under Rule 1.1 and Rule 1.2(b) and Restricted
Free Agents for that particular year.
(b) Following publication of the list referred to in Rule 1.3(a), a Player will remain
classified as a Free Agent under Rule 1.1(a) or Rule 1.2(b) or Restricted Free Agent
until the conclusion of the applicable Free Agency Period in that year, unless he
enters into a new Contract of Service with his Current Club.
1.4 Movement of Free Agents
(a) Other than where a Free Agent enters into a Contract of Service following selection
in a Draft or as part of an exchange under the AFL Rules, a Free Agent may only
enter into a Contract of Service for the following AFL Season or an agreement,
arrangement or understanding to enter into a Contract of Service for the following
AFL Season during the applicable Free Agency Period, unless he enters into a new
Contract of Service with his Current Club prior to or during that period.
(b) Where a Club enters into a Contract of Service or an agreement, arrangement or
understanding to enter into a Contract of Service with a Free Agent during the
applicable Free Agency Period the Club must promptly lodge with the AFL a
completed and accurate form in the form prescribed in Schedule 1 as Form 42 of
the AFL Rules.
Page 114
(c) Upon entry into a Contract of Service by a Club and Free Agent, the relevant Club
must lodge documents with the AFL in accordance with the AFL Rules.
(d) A Player may, by Power of Attorney, appoint an attorney to sign a document on his
behalf under this Rule.
(e) Any Contract of Service entered into under Rule 1.4 shall take effect on 1 November
in that year.
(f) For the avoidance of doubt, any Club wishing to enter into a Contract of Service
with a Free Agent after lodgement of Football Payments pursuant to the AFL Rules,
must first seek the approval of the Investigations Manager.
1.5 Movement of Restricted Free Agents
(a) Other than where a Restricted Free Agent enters into a Contract of Service
following selection via the Draft or as part of an exchange under the AFL Rules, a
Restricted Free Agent may only enter into a Contract of Service for the following
AFL Season or an agreement, arrangement or understanding to enter into a
Contract of Service for the following AFL Season:
(i) during the applicable Free Agency Period;
(ii) for a minimum term of two years; and
(iii) subject to the other provisions of this Rule 1.5,
(b) unless he enters into a new Contract of Service with his Current Club.
(c) A Restricted Free Agent who wishes to enter into a Contract of Service with a Club
other than his Current Club (Offering Club), other than via the Draft or as part of
an exchange under the Rules, may only seek to do so during the applicable Free
Agency Period and must first submit to the AFL full details of one proposed contract,
arrangement, agreement or understanding (including details of any Additional
Services agreement payments) in the form prescribed in Schedule 1 as Form 41 of
the AFL Rules, signed by both the relevant Player and the Offering Club (Offer).
The full details of the Offer must be submitted to the AFL within 24 hours of finalising
those details and by no later than the end of the applicable Free Agency Period.
(d) AFL will promptly provide a copy of the Offer to the Restricted Free Agent’s Current
Club.
(e) The Restricted Free Agent’s Current Club has the right to match the proposed
contract, arrangement, agreement or understanding in respect of the Restricted
Free Agent on identical terms to the Offer in relation to each of:
(i) contract length;
(ii) base payments;
(iii) total match payment rates;
(iv) total Additional Services agreement payments; and
(v) total performance incentives based on AFL awards or honours, Club best
and fairest finish and matches played, but excluding Finals.
Page 115
(f) For the avoidance of doubt, incentive payments for team performance are not
required to be matched by the Current Club.
(g) If a Restricted Free Agent’s Current Club wants to match the terms of the Offer
under Rule 1.5(e) it must provide notice to AFL using the form prescribed in
Schedule 1 as Form 41 of the AFL Rules (Matching Offer). The Matching Offer
must be provided to AFL within three days of the Current Club receiving the Offer
from the AFL.
(h) AFL will promptly provide a copy of any Matching Offer to the relevant Restricted
Free Agent.
(i) Where a Restricted Free Agent’s Current Club matches the Offer and the Player
wishes to participate in the AFL Competition in the following year, the Restricted
Free Agent must either:
(i) enter into a Contract of Service in accordance with the Matching Offer with
his Current Club within 7 days of the provision of notice of the Matching Offer
to the restricted Free Agent under Rule 1.5(g); or
(ii) nominate for the Draft (unless the Player is part of an exchange under the
AFL Rules.
(j) A Restricted Free Agent may only undertake the process set out in Rule 1.5(c) once
in total in any year in which he is a Restricted Free Agent.
(k) Where:
(i) a Restricted Free Agent’s Current Club does not match the terms of the Offer
in accordance with the process and within the time period prescribed by Rule
1.5(g), and
(ii) the Restricted Free Agent and his Current Club, have not agreed to enter
into a Contract of Service on different terms to the Offer within three days of
the Current Club receiving the Offer from the AFL,
(l) the relevant Player and the Offering Club must promptly enter into a Contract of
Service in accordance with the terms of the Offer and lodge documents with the
AFL in accordance with the AFL Rules.
(m) Nothing in this Rule 1.5 prevents a Restricted Free Agent’s Current Club making
an offer, or a Restricted Free Agent accepting an offer from his Current Club, in
relation to a Player’s services on different terms to the Offer within three days of the
Current Club receiving the Offer from the AFL.
(n) A Player may, by Power of Attorney, appoint an attorney to sign a document on his
behalf under this Rule.
(o) Any Contract of Service entered into under this Rule 1.5 shall take effect on 1
November in the relevant year.
(p) Where any Club enters into a Contract of Service with a Restricted Free Agent
under Rule 1.5(i) or (i) (and for the avoidance of doubt, not in the case of a Contract
of Service entered into under Rule 1.5(m) the Club may elect to allocate payments
under the Contract of Service (including incentives) and any Additional Services
agreement to the relevant Player evenly over the period of the contract(s) for Total
Page 116
Player Payment purposes, subject to the approval of the General Counsel. The
Club must make any election to allocate payments under this Rule within 7 days of
entry into the Contract of Service and immediately notify the AFL of the election.
Any election by the Club to allocate payments under this Rule does not impact the
time for actual payments to the Player, which must be in accordance with the
contract(s).
1.6 Compensation
(a) Where in a particular year one or more Free Agent(s) under Rule 1.1(a) and Rule
1.2(b) and/or Restricted Free Agent(s) move from a Club’s Playing List (the first
mentioned Club) to the Playing List of one or more other Clubs pursuant to the
operation of Rule 1.4 or 1.5, the first mentioned Club may be entitled to a
compensatory selection(s) in the next occurring National Draft Selection Meeting
as follows:
(i) any compensatory selection(s) shall be allocated in accordance with
guidelines determined by the AFL;
(ii) National Draft Selections will be allocated to one of five places:
(A) First round;
(B) End of First Round;
(C) Second Round;
(D) End of Second Round;
(E) Third Round;
(iii) a National Draft Selection allocated under Rule 1.6(a)(ii)(A), (C) or (E) shall
be taken by the Club immediately after the Club’s selection in that Round
(as determined by the AFL Rules);
(b) For the avoidance of doubt, any entitlement to a compensatory selection:
(i) may be exchanged in accordance with the AFL Rules;
(ii) cannot be utilised pursuant to the Father/Son rule; and
(iii) cannot be utilised pursuant to the Listing of Club Academy Player.
1.7 Rule Compliance Paramount
Any Rules restricting the time for Clubs to enter into contracts, agreements, arrangements
or understandings with a Player who is included on the List of another Club are of
paramount importance. Nothing in this Rule limits the operation of the AFL Rules.
1.8 Effect of Breach of Free Agency Rules
A breach of the Free Agency Rules by a Player shall be dealt with pursuant to the AFL
Rules and not pursuant to the terms of this Agreement.
I’m sure that’s really interesting and all but I feel asleep each of the three times I tried to read it.
which is probably good, cause facts ruin a good BigFooty.com discussion
It will be a win regardless. Either we get Joe for nothing trade wise, or he will go to the draft and go to Sydney and Essendon get nothing. I'm happy with either.
Would be infinitely more enjoyable if it was one of the clubs that lowballed us during the go home 5 year, but nonetheless, still fun.
Dude, the guy has said two years in a row, I’m out. Don’t want to be here. There’s no bargaining to be done. He may even decide to give it away completely then stay, in a place he has said he wants out, if dodo matches. Don’t underestimate that possibility.
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I'm not underestimating that possibility. I don't think there is any chance he stays at Essendon next year. Matching won't keep him. But it might force a trade with Brisbane, or with Sydney, or with someone else. Or Joe will go for free to somebody in the PSD.
I just don't think Dodoro is any chance to go weak at the knees at the thought of losing him to the PSD if all he would be losing is a pick in the early 20s.
(And I don't think Joe would be too happy at the idea of opening himself up to the possibility of going to Adelaide or North, not that he will have much opportunity to change the course of events.)
X AE A12
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Noted, I'll add this conspiracy to the pile
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Not to mention list managers of all those other clubs would also take great pleasure seeing Dodoro get absolutely wrecked.
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From maybe his best album
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I have been enjoying Lodger lately. Underrated record.
??
I don't get it. Surely you're not suggesting he will get to Brisbane in the PSD?
If the game of match and trade falls over and he goes into the PSD, at that point Dodoro won't care which club he goes to. And it won't be Brisbane. Can you see the likes of Carlton and Hawthorn and North all passing on him, not to mention Sydney? He would be a free hit for all of them. If he were to sulk and not play, no loss, worth the try.
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Clubs won't pick up a player who actively doesn't want to be there. It would have a massively negative flow on effect for the rest of the playing group and clubs are much smarter than that, especially now with a squeeze on cap space and list spots.
However, I defintely believe it won't come to that.
