Most talented hawk of all time (not best or most decorated pure talent)

Hawk with the most pure talent

  • Total voters
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moginie said:
Peter Knights. Leigh Matthews. Gary Buckenara. Darren Jarman. Lance Franklin. Cyril Rioli.

In chronological order. Can't put Peter Hudson in because I only have vague memories of his 1977 season.
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Came here to post Peter Knights. At least aerially

Hard to say 'most' talented overall, because footy is such a mix of many different talents; handballing, long kicking, short kicking, evasiveness, speed, spatial awareness, instincts, etc. It just depends which traits you value more

Footskills - Jarman, Sam Mitchell
Aerially - Knights
Spatial awareness, handball - Sam Mitchell
Athleticism - Buddy
Spatial awareness, smarts, instinctive genius - Cyril
Skills under pressure - Leigh Matthews, Buddy
 

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I think Gary Ablett Sr is a particularly glib answer tbh, yes he was a star at Geelong but didn't demonstrate that talent with us. Almost everything that Sr was in the late 80s and 90s, Buddy was more and taller. Buddy as a prospect in that era would have set the all time goal kicking record at an unreachable level, the only thing you'd give Ablett an advantage in is marking.

Even with that, taking "talent" at its definition of natural aptitude - I'm going Cyril. The most naturally talented player, and the most technically brilliant at the most things. A phenomenal kick, the best tackler I've ever seen, he seemed to always make the best decisions quicker than any other player. His instincts to tap the ball to advantage, find teammates. Honestly I think some aspects of his game are underrated.
 
KermitJagger said:
I think Gary Ablett Sr is a particularly glib answer tbh, yes he was a star at Geelong but didn't demonstrate that talent with us. Almost everything that Sr was in the late 80s and 90s, Buddy was more and taller. Buddy as a prospect in that era would have set the all time goal kicking record at an unreachable level, the only thing you'd give Ablett an advantage in is marking.

Even with that, taking "talent" at its definition of natural aptitude - I'm going Cyril. The most naturally talented player, and the most technically brilliant at the most things. A phenomenal kick, the best tackler I've ever seen, he seemed to always make the best decisions quicker than any other player. His instincts to tap the ball to advantage, find teammates. Honestly I think some aspects of his game are underrated.
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The title says “not the best or the most decorated pure talent”.

I thinks it’s pretty obvious - across his career he was the most astonishingly naturally talented player I’ve ever seen. The fact he only got his head right and showed it at Geelong is irrelevant given the criteria in the OP.

He played for Hawthorn, and he’s the most freakishly talented player I’ve ever seen.
 
HedgeFund said:
The title says “not the best or the most decorated pure talent”.

I thinks it’s pretty obvious - across his career he was the most astonishingly naturally talented player I’ve ever seen. The fact he only got his head right and showed it at Geelong is irrelevant given the criteria in the OP.

He played for Hawthorn, and he’s the most freakishly talented player I’ve ever seen.
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We can go back and forth on what "the most talented Hawk to ever play" means but I'd argue that picking a player who played one season and demonstrated very little of his talent at the Hawks is not in the spirit of the question.
 
On pure talent I'd easily have to go with Darren 'the Barman' Jarman. I saw that man do things with the ball that even Cyril didn't /couldn't.

Hawthorn has had so many great players born with unbelievable that when you factor in that we lost Ablett Snr, Jarman and Franklin and still were able to go on a couple of years after those players left to win a premiership/s. Not many clubs could say they could do that let alone still remain competitive.
 
Some fair questions and challenges to the thread title. My 4 headed monster probably in hindsight confused a bit. Pure talent was the focus and I will say Buddy. The collection of things he did that astounded particularly at his height gets him the nod for me. Of course totally remiss to leave out Cyril. Ablet senior and Huddo I saw but probably didn’t see enough of to rank then top. Jarman was something else best 2 sided player I’ve seen.
 
Tricky one this one. Of the players I have seen I would have to lean towards Cyril, although it perhaps begs the question, what's the difference between genius and talent.. Cyril is the only hawk I would describe as a "genius". So I guess that means Cyril is the most talented hawk I have seen.
Very honourable mentions to D Jars and Buddy. Jars just cruised around like he was in 3rd gear all the time but his disposal by foot is the best I have ever seen. And of course there is the Budster. Enough said.
Should do one on the most courageous Hawk... Dipper, Dermie, Conan, Tucky, Lethal... that would be a long list.
 
HedgeFund said:
The title says “not the best or the most decorated pure talent”.

I thinks it’s pretty obvious - across his career he was the most astonishingly naturally talented player I’ve ever seen. The fact he only got his head right and showed it at Geelong is irrelevant given the criteria in the OP.

He played for Hawthorn, and he’s the most freakishly talented player I’ve ever seen.
Click to expand...
Have to agree with you Senior was something else he shades Cyril ever so slightly. In full flight he was amazing to watch. Could dominate a game like no other. I can tell you if he had put in a lot more on the track, he would have been unstoppable he was bloody freak.
 

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It's not close. D Jarman is the most gifted/talented player I've seen play this game of football.
Did he bring his best as often as he should? Nope.
Sammy 2nd. Can't believe how far he took his game from early Box Hill days.
Some think that somehow diminishes the gifts he displayed, as though he was more trained and robotic with skills.
Anything but. Mitch looked so natural, had such awareness, was so creative.

But no one could do everything Jarman could do at his best.
 
flinchfree said:
It's not close. D Jarman is the most gifted/talented player I've seen play this game of football.
Did he bring his best as often as he should? Nope.
Sammy 2nd. Can't believe how far he took his game from early Box Hill days.
Some think that somehow diminishes the gifts he displayed, as though he was more trained and robotic with skills.
Anything but. Mitch looked so natural, had such awareness, was so creative.

But no one could do everything Jarman could do at his best.
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Agree. Pound for pound talent, it's Jarman every day.
 
TylerDurden said:
Agree. Pound for pound talent, it's Jarman every day.
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I’d say Jarman too. Just wanted to give a bit of love to Hodgey as well as I’m not sure if he has been mentioned yet? I remember a game against the Bulldogs where he smothered the ball off the boot of a player, gathered it cleanly in the same action and then nonchalantly kicked a 60 metre barrel off one step!
 
I don't think Talent exists. It's an excuse people use to explain why they can't do what others can.

There are some natural traits that impact what you achieve.

But if you look at 2015 Sam Mitchell you see one of the best kicks to ever play the game on either foot. Swap in 2002 Sam Mitchell and you have an elite inside ball winner who hacks it forward from packs and often misses targets.

Nobody is born with the ability to kick a football. And Jimi Hendrix wasn't born a talented guitarist.

Most of us spend a few years just learning how to walk and talk and not shit in our pants.
 
Jared Brennan

Sorry wrong club.
(It was such a weird and famous Lethal comment that he's the most talented player he's seen)
 
Nobody had mentioned Billy ‘The Kid’ Nicholls?

Jarman and Buddy were amazing.

Sammy Mitchell was at the bottom of every pack. Had hunger and desire that can’t be taught. Amazing footy brain too.

That kid from Coorparoo wasn’t a bad sort either; thanks Carlton. Probably the one and only reason I could ever say something nice about Carlton too :)
 
kazzooka said:
I don't think Talent exists. It's an excuse people use to explain why they can't do what others can.

There are some natural traits that impact what you achieve.

But if you look at 2015 Sam Mitchell you see one of the best kicks to ever play the game on either foot. Swap in 2002 Sam Mitchell and you have an elite inside ball winner who hacks it forward from packs and often misses targets.

Nobody is born with the ability to kick a football. And Jimi Hendrix wasn't born a talented guitarist.

Most of us spend a few years just learning how to walk and talk and not shit in our pants.
Click to expand...
Natural talent obviously exists. It has been demonstrated consistently over the course of human history. It's not an excuse, it's just a fact - Mozart was a proficient musician by 5 and was composing as a teenager. You can take any number of children, give them all the lessons in the world and chances are that none scratch the surface of what he achieved.

Just in AFL terms, some of the hardest working players in the country will not get drafted and Jake Stringer is entering his 13th season despite never showing up fit in a single pre season.

It's not an excuse to not work hard, but clearly it's a thing.
 
kazzooka said:
I don't think Talent exists. It's an excuse people use to explain why they can't do what others can.

There are some natural traits that impact what you achieve.

But if you look at 2015 Sam Mitchell you see one of the best kicks to ever play the game on either foot. Swap in 2002 Sam Mitchell and you have an elite inside ball winner who hacks it forward from packs and often misses targets.

Nobody is born with the ability to kick a football. And Jimi Hendrix wasn't born a talented guitarist.

Most of us spend a few years just learning how to walk and talk and not shit in our pants.
Click to expand...
Talent doesn't mean someone is magically born with the ability to do something they've never done before. It just means that the amount of time and effort they need to put into learning and training the ability to reach a particular level of mastery is far less than most.

Even the worst AFL players have some talent for the game. The separating factor then becomes who is more dedicated to making the most of the talent they have.

Players with low talent levels (by AFL standards) need to be consistently hard workers to get the most out of themselves and survive on a list and even get games. That's your "battler" and "journeymen" types. The ones who are stars at VFL level but only role players at AFL level.

Whereas a player with high talent levels can easily keep themselves on a list and in a team despite not working anywhere near as hard as many others. Jake Stringer for example, who really only does enough to get himself the next contract.

When high talent meets hard work then you can end up with a pretty special player.
 

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Most talented hawk of all time (not best or most decorated pure talent)

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