Most talented hawk of all time (not best or most decorated pure talent)

[Ka Norkers]

Gary Ablett

daylight

Peter Knights
Peter Russo
Cyril

Gary Ablett's first game as a Hawks player was in the VFL reserves round one 1982 against St. Kilda down at Moorabbin. Had not even trained with the club before that day. Had 50-odd possessions, kicked 4 goals, and had the other 35 players on the ground (including the Hawks players) scratching their heads and saying "what the f^&k is going on? Who on Earth is this kid?"
Absolute freak, let go by Hawks for reasons nothing to do with football, no need to go into it. As good as he was, Hawks won 5 premierships whilst he was a Geelong, the Cats won zero.

 

[Slainte]

Deep dive into history - Brendan Edwards had some tricks.
Fast forward 10 years and the Wiz could be a contender in a similar thread.

 

[jumpingjai]

I have had the rare privilege of seeng them all.
1. Hudson
2. Knights
3. Cyril.

 

[Sicily]

Jarman given that he was exquisitely talented on both feet and had that rare ability to make time stand still - extraordinary footballer

 

[Elhawko]

I have had the rare privilege of seeng them all.
1. Hudson
2. Knights
3. Cyril.

I missed Hudson but his record is amazing. When you consider he did an ACL at 25 or 26 (a career ending injury in those days) in his first game after equaling the all time goal-kicking record the season prior (having kicked 8 already to half time no less!), came back for one game a year later with basically no training and kicked 8, then returned again at 30 when 30 was old and kicked 110, you can only wonder what he would have achieved if he had never done his knee.

Absolutely agree with Knights. I'd take Knights over Cyril every day of the week. I think I'm right in saying he was shortlisted for the CHB position in the VFL team of the century (Ted Whitten got the nod), but he also led our goal kicking playing CHF one year and another year played as first ruck on the strength of his leap. If not for injury he would very likely have won the Brownlow in both 1976 and 1978. It always amuses me to go back to the start of the DGB thread and see people there suggesting he was Knights-like before he'd even played a game! On a board where extravagant predictions for recruits is the norm those comparisons take the cake!!

A couple of honourable mentions:

Dermie was a fantastic athlete in his prime and very skilled. Nobody could compete with GAblett Snr but Dermie was the next best thing.

And the other player I don't think anyone has mentioned is Tucky. Could run all day but was quick with it, good leap and mark, good kick and tough as leather. Was the preeminent ruck-rover in the league for a decade, played CHF one year from memory, and then was good enough to go back and play as a defender in the latter stages if his career. You don't play 420 games in teams as good as he played in unless you have elite skills.

Of the current list, Sic is pretty talented. Great mark and exceptional kick. I think the Wiz might be special too, but time will tell.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Jared Brennan

Sorry wrong club.
(It was such a weird and famous Lethal comment that he's the most talented player he's seen)

One of my favourite pieces of commentary was a Suns game where Brennan missed an absolute gimme goal and Malcolm Blight said ‘Jared Brennan is a special player in that he makes the very easy look very hard’.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I don't think Talent exists. It's an excuse people use to explain why they can't do what others can.

There are some natural traits that impact what you achieve.

But if you look at 2015 Sam Mitchell you see one of the best kicks to ever play the game on either foot. Swap in 2002 Sam Mitchell and you have an elite inside ball winner who hacks it forward from packs and often misses targets.

Nobody is born with the ability to kick a football. And Jimi Hendrix wasn't born a talented guitarist.

Most of us spend a few years just learning how to walk and talk and not shit in our pants.

Odd take. Tiger Woods was a freakish golfing talent as a toddler. Plenty of similar examples.

 

[Hodgey 15]

For me in more modern times and players I've experienced a bit more close up would have to be Cyril and Buddy.
Didn't see a lot of Huddo as I was a bit too young but he sure was a freak from what I have seen and read.

 

[GinniAndTonic]

Unpopular opinion but I’m going to say Dale Garlett the bloke could’ve been absolutely anything but pissed it up against the wall

 

[FB19]

Reviewed the posts I think those 6 stand out so added them as a poll let the voting commence! Think this will be a close run thing.

 

[DeafHawk]

P. Hudson
L. Mathews
D. Jarman

 

[libbylou]

FB19 I don't think you can leave Leigh Matthews off the list.

 

[Fleabane]

I don't think Talent exists. It's an excuse people use to explain why they can't do what others can.

There are some natural traits that impact what you achieve.

But if you look at 2015 Sam Mitchell you see one of the best kicks to ever play the game on either foot. Swap in 2002 Sam Mitchell and you have an elite inside ball winner who hacks it forward from packs and often misses targets.

Nobody is born with the ability to kick a football. And Jimi Hendrix wasn't born a talented guitarist.

Most of us spend a few years just learning how to walk and talk and not shit in our pants.

I'd go halfway on this. I'd say talent undoubtedly exists but you need a freakish work ethic and ability to focus on the goal, drive, determination to get very far with it. This essential element (which is rare in itself) is often overlooked while we laud the talent.

Cyril would be my pick. Will never forget what he could do. One of my favourite things about him was that he tackled like a leopard.

 

[hardway]

Virtually impossible to find talented player at HFC that isn’t decorated!

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Virtually impossible to find talented player at HFC that isn’t decorated!

Could be another interesting thread - best long-term Hawthorn player to not have played in a premiership or have won an individual medal (Brownlow/PCM etc).

 

[undefined]

Unpopular opinion but I’m going to say Dale Garlett the bloke could’ve been absolutely anything but pissed it up against the wall

Was looking for this one. In terms of pure talent he wouldn't be far off some of the regular mentions in here.

 

[moginie]

Could be another interesting thread - best long-term Hawthorn player to not have played in a premiership or have won an individual medal (Brownlow/PCM etc).

Mark Graham.

Ted Pool.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Mark Graham.

Ted Pool.

There'd definitely be a number of them pre-1961 but I doubt many posters here would have seen them play.

 

[Yardie]

Agree. Pound for pound talent, it's Jarman every day.

When I saw the title of the thread this was the first name that came to my mind.

 

[Rowie6]

This is not even close……. Daniel Harford

Daniel Harford

Age

47

Ht

177cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.8

4star

K

10.3

4star

HB

7.5

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.8

4star

No current season stats available

D

15.8

4star

K

8.2

4star

HB

7.6

5star

M

2.8

3star

T

1.4

4star

of the Harford Hour Variety Show. His general entertainment chops were as least as good as Darryl Summers. I don’t know why he didn’t kick on?

He lost a few yards of pace !


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Rowie6]

1. D Jarmen
I cannot remember a shanked kick by Jars?
2. Cyril
He could do it all except accumulate!
3 Buddy
Freak except for his overhead marking!



On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[killerspud]

Never got to see Hudson play

On what I've seen

• Cyril Rioli
• Darren Jarman
• Jason Dunstall
• Buddy Franklin
• Tony Hall

Pure talent natural footballers who made the impossible seem so easy

 

[Bugs1977]

Some fair questions and challenges to the thread title. My 4 headed monster probably in hindsight confused a bit. Pure talent was the focus and I will say Buddy. The collection of things he did that astounded particularly at his height gets him the nod for me. Of course totally remiss to leave out Cyril. Ablet senior and Huddo I saw but probably didn’t see enough of to rank then top. Jarman was something else best 2 sided player I’ve seen.

I saw Jarman live at Waverley literally put what were close games to bed off his own boot in the space of 4-5 minutes. The way he moved was like Neo in the Matrix and it was a unbelievable sight if you were lucky enough to witness it live. My choice of viewership was right behind the Hawthorn cheer squad.

IMO as for most natural talent Buddy wouldn't be very far behind at all but I gave my vote to Jarman because I feel Buddy was blessed with a physical build that no opposition defender was equiped to stop. Jarman on the other hand wasn't physically blessed at all but the way he moved was like Fred Astaire.

I'm not afraid to say that I cried when he left to the Crows (I was only a kid LOL) but I didn't when Buddly left to the Swans. In Buddy's case I was just disappointed

 

[KermitJagger]

The reason why I find it hard to accept any other answer than Cyril is, what was he not good at? You can say accumulation but pre-hamstring troubles he was starting to build up to a reasonable level of accumulation for his impact. It was not for lack of talent.

Cyril was at the highest level in every facet of the game. Just one of his skills would have been a stand out skill in another player. I didn't get to see much of Jarman outside of highlights and a few replays, but while I saw a brilliant talent and ball user, I also saw a 1:1 and open game which allowed that to rise to the fore. With Cyril, I saw an (at least) equally good ball user who had to deal with far more complex structures and zones, far more players to navigate the ball use through.

Cyril combined that level of skill with an unbelievable level of 1:1 ability, ground ball ability, and a talent for F50 tackling and pressure that we hadn't seen before or since. An outstanding mark, goal kicker, score assist player and quite possibly the best proponent of the tap and knock on 1% work ever.

Jarman may have been brilliant, but football talent is more than just what you do with the ball, and Cyril was amongst the best with it as he was without it.

 

[Cyril says]

I have had the rare privilege of seeng them all.
1. Hudson
2. Knights
3. Cyril.

… and I heard recently that Hudson says he’s been watching footy for over 60 years and has never seen anything like The Wizard.