Roast NAB 3 Post match - the vent thread

[TradeDraft]

Problem is Eddie hates sacking his mates.

Bucks is on his Last Chance this season

 

[mike123]

The thing I'm most disappointed about is not playing Braydon Maynard. A tough defender that can kick the ball.

 

[ottoman]

Reid should play rd1. Already played two vfl games (one internal praccy actually) and i think we play richmond on thursday. If he gets through a full game, bring him in. we need him badly

he is injured again

 

[Vicky Park]

Posts from the 'Eddie swallow your pride' thread merged here.

 

[rose jam]

The thing I'm most disappointed about is not playing Braydon Maynard. A tough defender that can kick the ball.

Scharenberg thread

 

[Kirby]

God there's some absolute drivel posted on this board.

Some joker actually wants to sack Buckley and re-employ MM???

Ffs, I've heard it all now.

 

[larrikan]

Eddie. You have done a lot of good for this football club. You rescued us in the 90s when we were in the shithouse and brought in the best coach in the afl who ultimately took us to the highest glory. While we only won one flag (at least we won one), the years we enjoyed under Malthouse were great. We enjoyed going to the football each week because we had young players who were developing in front of our eyes and we played a brand of football which was attractive.

However, your decision in 2009 to sack the best coach in the AFL was a shocker. It just should never have been done. To sack Malthouse for an untried Buckley, who no one knew if he could coach or not, is looking more ludicrous by the day. The warning signs should have been there when you think back to Buckley's first couple of years as captain where the other players did not gravitate to him.

The football we are playing under Buckley is disgusting. I take the point that last night and last week was a NAB cup game and that it means nothing. However, all the problems from the previous few years were there for all to see last night e.g. unable to move the ball out of our backline from kick ins, absolutely no forward structure and a lack of dare when attacking. I think I counted at one stage last night 10 disposals for about 15m gained.

Team selection is also bewildering. It is a NAB cup game, yet we see none of De Goey, Freeman, Kennedy or Broomhead last night. Why aren't the talented kids playing last night? Surely the best way to develop them is to expose them to football at the highest level. Instead, we have plodders in Greenwood and Varcoe getting a game over them (two players who should never have been recruited).

Eddie - for you to move Buckley on would mean that you are admitting you were wrong to appoint him. We as a supporter group can cop that as your good deeds far outweigh your bad. However, we cannot cop you continuing to be stubborn and to persist with a guy who, quite frankly, isn't up to it.

Mark Ricciuto made the tough, some would say ruthless, call at Adelaide to get rid of Sanderson. Whilst they were not that bad, he saw that he was not the man to take Adelaide forward and he acted swiftly. This is what we need at Collingwood.

And if you really cared about Collingwood, you would end your feud with Malthouse and pick up the phone and invite him back to a job that he should never have lost. Now I know that is asking too much from you, as sacking Buckley would be hard enough. Nonetheless, it is the right thing to do for this football club.

I would also appreciate that this thread is not moved or deleted, and that people only with constructive things to say contribute to it. Dismissive two or three word replies just show that some of you are blind supporters who can't think constructively or wouldn't dare criticise the club.

Brilliant post: I am a great supporter of Nathan Buckley, the club champion and a great bloke but I am losing faith in his coaching for the reasons you have suggested. I am disappointed he lauded our goal to be the best transition side in the AFL and a few days later we get schooled in it by the Bulldogs. I am disappointed that Bucks surrounded himself with unsuccessful coaching staff and past players. Collingwood's business model is outstanding under Eddie but our football department is average at best.

I rarely post on here anymore due to most threads being derailed and personal attacks by the same offenders. I do read our board everyday though and I am surprised that your post, that was so well articulated, has been moved and embedded into this NAB post match thread considering the crap threads that posters who think they own this board start.

I have been a Collingwood supporter for over fifty years. I will stick with them through thick and thin - always have. I hate the tear up your memberships crap and instantaneous rewards from drafting that some supporters expect. The illusion that we are a successful on field club is not backed up by premiership flags but the spin does generate money for the club. It's possible that Bucks might have been a mistake. I am guessing the wheels will fall off in the next two years if we continue to spiral down or not see significant improvement in the game plan. Every supporter knows we bomb it into Cloke and cannot release from kick outs while other teams break away with their kickouts easily- its so frustrating and not new - so what did our coaches do over the summer.

It's going to be a long season - let's hope our draftees get games ahead of players like Blair, not signalling him out specifically, just saying I'd rather see development ahead of the same old same old.

 

[larrikan]

God there's some absolute drivel posted on this board.

Some joker actually wants to sack Buckley and re-employ MM???

Ffs, I've heard it all now.

The rest of his post was good. I always ignore any references to succession plans and MM. Past is the past. The drivel of others is ludicrous and shows that we would go under as a club if this board run the football club.

 

[loki04]

I like practice matches

How'd you like season 2014 HnA rounds? This game is fun.

 

[dmoore30]

I don't understand why Cloke is getting hate. He's the one who should be giving the hate! We can't kick to him even if it's a 2 on 1 let alone a 1 on 1! He's always got atleast 3 opponents on him because of our poor forward line structure and our slow movement. Not only do we kick to him when he's in a 3 on 1 contest we can't even deliver a half decent ball to Cloke on the lead because our skills are that bad. So what is Cloke suppose to do? I feel sorry for him, he should've taken the big money Freo offered him, atleast he'd be given the ball without having to compete in a 3 on 1 and could actually get a decent kick to mark on the lead.

 

[loki04]

Why do we still act like these games actually ******* matter? History shows they mean nothing.

History shows you are wrong.

The only time it can be taken as a nothing game is generally when teams play half their vfl side or play players out of position all over the ground.

Year / Premier / Runner Up | Winner Season / Runner Up Season
1988 Hawthorn Geelong Premier 9th
1989 Melbourne Geelong Semi Finalist Grand Finalist
1990 Essendon North Melb Grand Finalist 6th
1991 Hawthorn North Melb Premier 8th
1992 Hawthorn Fitzroy Elimination Finalist 10th
1993 Essendon Richmond Premier 14th
1994 Essendon Adelaide 10th 11th
1995 North Melb Adelaide Preliminary Finalist 11th
1996 St Kilda Carlton 10th Semi Finalist
1997 Carlton Geelong 11th Semi Finalist
1998 North Melb St Kilda Grand Finalist Semi Finalist
1999 Hawthorn Port 9th Elimination Finalist
2000 Essendon North Melb Premier Preliminary Finalist
2001 Port Brisbane Semi Finalist Premier
2002 Port Richmond Preliminary Finalist 14th
2003 Adelaide Collingwood Semi Finalist Grand Finalist
2004 St Kilda Geelong Preliminary Finalist Preliminary Finalist
2005 Carlton West Coast 16th (Spoon) Grand Finalist
2006 Geelong Adelaide 9th Preliminary Finalist
2007 Carlton Brisbane 15th 10th
2008 St Kilda Adelaide Preliminary Finalist Elimination Finalist
2009 Geelong Collingwood Premier Preliminary Finalist
2010 Bulldogs St Kilda Preliminary Finalist Grand Finalist
2011 Collingwood Essendon Grand Finalist Elimination Finalist
2012 Adelaide West Coast Preliminary Finalist Semi Finalist
2013 Brisbane Carlton 12th Semi Finalist


As you can see more often then not GF teams played finals or won flags.

Teams who show shit structure and ball movement generally carried it into the season proper.

As with all things perspective needs to be applied ie Hawks vs Pies NAB 1 what can be taken from that? Not a lot other then our VFL/junior side looks to have their measure at this stage.

Dogs vs Pies what can we glean from that a heck tonne. Senior team players generally in position, team looking to find form leading to rnd 1, coaches looking to players to put hand up, systems shown, ball movement shown etc. That team was just a continuation of the 2014 team in fact it was almost the same personnel playing.

Not about results, a lot about method.

 

[loki04]

I don't understand why Cloke is getting hate. He's the one who should be giving the hate! We can't kick to him even if it's a 2 on 1 let alone a 1 on 1! He's always got atleast 3 opponents on him because of our poor forward line structure and our slow movement. Not only do we kick to him when he's in a 3 on 1 contest we can't even deliver a half decent ball to Cloke on the lead because our skills are that bad. So what is Cloke suppose to do? I feel sorry for him, he should've taken the big money Freo offered him, atleast he'd be given the ball without having to compete in a 3 on 1 and could actually get a decent kick to mark on the lead.

Clokes copping it due to seemingly not leading anywhere near enough and also with no conviction at a player who sits in his space. He should be smashing through them put them in hospital make it known you want to sit in my area prepare to take a hammering.

Cloke is huge he should charge out and flatten who ever drops back making them more hesitant and less likely to do it. Atm there is no consequence to sitting in Clokes space as he is a "soft" bigman, by that I mean he has very little aggression/nastiness in him.

You are correct the team is the other half of the equation and needs rectifying.

 

[loki04]

So after I hoped we would' get embarrassed....we got embarrassed.

I didn't get to watch the game, luckily I had naked women al up in my face. Which looks like it was the better entertainment. So are we basically bottom 4 this year?

Bottom 6-8 imo, we are a team of scrappers and as such will get scrappy wins throughout the season a middling team going no where.

So not low enough to even get the cream of the crop picks but low enough to be a painful year for all involved the worse place to finish imo.

 

[loki04]

Do me a favour and read the BF Collingwood board in 2009. You'd be surprised to learn majority of threads during that time are by posters calling for Mick's head and questioning what little game plan we have and how many spuds are in the team.

Glad Eddie didn't take any notice of Bigfooty threads back then.

The decision to move MM on was correct, I was a big supporter of Bucks and still think he can turn it around if he bites the bullett and goes the youth track.

But I think where we as a club err'd was not interviewing other candidates at the time or poach other coach (Clarkson was on outer with Hawks president at time), we went straight to default in ex club champ need not look elsewhere. IMO that was the clubs biggest mistake not moving Mick on but not looking for the best replacement.

Buckley imo also would of benefited a lot more doing his apprenticeship at another team and more so would of been better off head coaching at north then going with his heart and staying at Pieland where he was a peer to some of the playing group not too long ago.

 

[loki04]

Reid should play rd1. Already played two vfl games (one internal praccy actually) and i think we play richmond on thursday. If he gets through a full game, bring him in. we need him badly

Reid,

Hamstring,

yeah..

 

[TradeDraft]

The decision to move MM on was correct, I was a big supporter of Bucks and still think he can turn it around if he bites the bullett and goes the youth track.

But I think where we as a club err'd was not interviewing other candidates at the time or poach other coach (Clarkson was on outer with Hawks president at time), we went straight to default in ex club champ need not look elsewhere. IMO that was the clubs biggest mistake not moving Mick on but not looking for the best replacement.

Buckley imo also would of benefited a lot more doing his apprenticeship at another team and more so would of been better off head coaching at north then going with his heart and staying at Pieland where he was a peer to some of the playing group not too long ago.

Agree - Might of been better to let Bucks go to North Melbourne in 2009

 

[loki04]

I'm sure its been said elsewhere in the thread (I haven't read past this page cos its a sunny day here and I'm not gonna waste much more time online) BUT:

1. Tooves and Frost CAN'T be played together in the back half, they confuse everyone else with their poor disposal and indecisive running. So pick one of them (if you have to) and leave the other one out. I'll have Tooves in, Frosty just isn't an AFL KPP...he might make a back pocket (spoiler) if someone can teach him how to kick. And Tooves will probably get the same treatment as Tarks got when Scharenburg or Seedsman is ready to play.

2. Goldy and Blair CAN'T be played in the same forward line. They don't make a difference to the game, despite their desperation and effort. Pick one (if you really really have to) and don't let them play unless they can average 2 goals a game. We have better options now (De Goey for one, Karnesis another, Kennedy, Broomhead....Give the kids a go).

3. Realise that lightweight ruckmen have no hope against a man mountain like Minson. He is the Darren Jolly of this era and poor Grundy couldn't move him, jump over him or even run away from him. Witts has to be played against Minson next time and he must be willing to crash into and body the Bulldog rucks. Or we could try third man up tactics if Witts could at least tie up Minson. But last night the big Bulldog killed us.

4. Crisp did a good job when he came on and tried tagging Bonti. Sidebottom ran his usual miles but was fumbly, Elliot did OK but I wish he'd just shot at goal instead of trying to give off goal attempts, Pendles looked a bit shell shocked by the Bulldogs attack on the ball, Oxley and Ramsay tried hard but were fighting the tide. No CHB....they owned the corridor, they taught us a lesson about intensity and desire.

All in all it was a lesson I hope our guys don't quickly forget.
We need to pick a better balanced side for round 1....and then rev up our intensity. Otherwise the Lions will laugh at us too.

Another you missed was at some stages we had Blair, JT, Greenwood, Adams in around the scrimmages/stoppages around the ground getting bulldozed by the much bigger dogs mids in Bont, Macrea, Stringer, Wallace, Boyd all are 188-192cm and big builds.

We looked very small in comparison, some of these guys are going to have to make way either as depth vfl players or trades at end of year.

 

[10571z]

Lmfao can't believe these reactions for a practice match.. Doggies would have given it their all knowing to sell memberships they need to give there fans hope.

Can't wait for all you sooks to be back on board once we start winning a few

 

[loki04]

You would think that the coaching staff would take positives and negatives out of the game. Would they take much, if any, notice of the final result? Wouldn't have thought so.




You play them because they're more beneficial than intra-club training and they help ease clubs into the competitive season. That doesn't mean that it's an accurate predictor of how the real season will go.




That's just pointless rhetoric. Case in point - in the final round of the 2011 H&A season Collingwod lost by 96 points while West Coast won by 95 points. If you're "only as good as your last game" then how come Collingwood won the qualifying final between the two clubs the following week?




I see your point and for individual, likely fringe, players it might mean something to them. My point though is that practice matches branded as NAB whateveryouwannacallit do not accurately predict the season proper. Bucks also mentions in his presser that we got done by 70 points in round 1, lost again two weeks later then went up and beat Sydney in Sydney then went on with it. If I was to sum up the vibe of his presser, it would be along the lines of - "we haven't performed exactly how we wanted to but we still give ourselves an excellent chance of starting our season off well on April 4". Which comes back around to my point, practice matches don't predict H&A season matches. The fact that people want Buckley sacked (going off the poll in the analysis thread) off the back of a practice match is a joke.

I think your missing why people are so pissed, it isn't cause we lost it is due to HOW and WHY we are losing, the method not result. We really are playing pathetic footy and it was the same last year. In our wins they were horrid to watch and often felt like we were losing despite being in front on the score board.

 

[pieanitis]

The thing I'm most disappointed about is not playing Braydon Maynard. A tough defender that can kick the ball.

He hasnt yet demonstrated he's picked up the pace. He was just okay in his first intra club, wasn't terrible but wasn't great in the vfl game against Geelong and didn't do heaps in Fri night's vfl intra.
Hes just not ready yet. They need to find the balance between giving him exposure/experience and not killing his confidence. Ive seen all three of his games and im with the club on this one - he's not ready........but when he is, watch out!!!!!

 

[loki04]

Lmfao can't believe these reactions for a practice match.. Doggies would have given it their all knowing to sell memberships they need to give there fans hope.

Can't wait for all you sooks to be back on board once we start winning a few

Pies players were also giving it there all except for Swan but he never does in NAB and we know he steps up. It isn't the loss in itself that has people concerned when are you guys going to realise this?

It's like people aren't reading what is being written just go to default oh sky is falling cause we lost posts...

Pies will get wins this year but a lot needs to change if we are going to rise up the ladder from last years effort.

 

[loki04]

He hasnt yet demonstrated he's picked up the pace. He was just okay in his first intra club, wasn't terrible but wasn't great in the vfl game against Geelong and didn't do heaps in Fri night's vfl intra.
Hes just not ready yet. They need to find the balance between giving him exposure/experience and not killing his confidence. Ive seen all three of his games and im with the club on this one - he's not ready........but when he is, watch out!!!!!

How did Goodyear, Abbott and Degoey go mate?

Any look ready?

What about our other draftees in Freeman, Kennedy, Broomhead etc they step up?

 

[Captivating]

If they don't matter then why bother playing them. Just do all your pre season in house.

The problem is that when we train, we train against a bottom 4 team. So, sure we look good at training but when we walk out on game day, 14 of our 17 opponents are better than us.

 

[Captivating]

Lmfao can't believe these reactions for a practice match.. Doggies would have given it their all knowing to sell memberships they need to give there fans hope.

Can't wait for all you sooks to be back on board once we start winning a few

Of course we were taking it easy, especially given we started pre-season training 4 weeks behind the Doggies on account of us winning the 2014 premiership!

 

[pieanitis]

How did Goodyear, Abbott and Degoey go mate?

Any look ready?

What about our other draftees in Freeman, Kennedy, Broomhead etc they step up?

Kennedy, Broomhead and Degoey didn't play. Kennedy was crook and got a knock to his head last week, not sure about the other two-im assuming Degoey was rested. Abbott didnt do heaps, Freeman was good again and i think is ready. Goodyear's inside game was very promising and website said this;
'Young draftee Matthew Goodyear showed flashes of what he is capable of while playing in the centre square, where he weaved his way through heavy traffic and helped open up the congestion with his use of the ball in close'.

Seedsman also good, again on the website they agreed.

'Seedsman impressed with his run through the centre, while Mason Cox, who had his first taste of senior football against Carlton last Sunday, performed well in the ruck against the more experienced Witts.