Naitanui vs Kreuzer

[Shupe]

Kruezer. It won't even be close in a couple of years time.
Much much better football brain. I will be surprised if he doesn't win a Brownlow.

This comment is astonishing! Surely you jest?

So far this season NN is ahead - pretty close though. Don't really know how you can say Kruezer will be streets ahead of somebody with such freakish talent that has the potential to tear games apart.

I think if NN never realises his potential, then Kruezer will have the better career. But right now I'm sure as hell not going to write a 21 year old ruckman off.

 

[Mattman93]

Doublespeak for 'throws'.

Complete myth. He's adept at small 'flick' type handpasses to either side of his body, so people often mistake them for throws.

Handballs legitimately much more often than most players in scrappy situations actually

 

[timmy22]

Both played well today, though Nat was better

Still I thought Nic Nat would be a champion this year. But to be honest he really has only played a couple of stand out games this year. He's a very Good player, but will he be Great ????

 

[eaglespremiers]

Both played well today, though Nat was better

Still I thought Nic Nat would be a champion this year. But to be honest he really has only played a couple of stand out games this year. He's a very Good player, but will he be Great ????

Are you posting the same thing twice in two threads?
He's averaging just under 114 champion data points a game.
That is 15th in the AFL and 1st for ruckmen.
He's the third highest CD scoring player on 9 games (behind Ablett and Swan).
I'm not sure what more you can expect?

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_rankings?year=2012&rt=LA&st=SU

 

[liam_13]

Kreuzer is no dud, but Nic-Nat showed what he can do last night.

I have no doubt those performances will be consistent and regular very soon.

eaglespremiers, Champion Data stats aren't everything. IIRC Rioli (13 disposals and 11 tackles) got 125 in a comfortably winning side, while Pavlich was the matchwinner with 6 goals and only got 99 points. Which player was better, and who had the more influence? Pavlich by far

 

[GrandBlue]

Naitanui, not even a contest.

Kreuzer will be a very good player though.

 

[eaglespremiers]

eaglespremiers, Champion Data stats aren't everything. IIRC Rioli (13 disposals and 11 tackles) got 125 in a comfortably winning side, while Pavlich was the matchwinner with 6 goals and only got 99 points. Which player was better, and who had the more influence? Pavlich by far

Certainly CD is not the end point, but it is a good starting point.
Otherwise any position can be regarded as purely an opinion (which is fine, but some facts never hurt).
CD is not always accurate but when you see that the top 12 at the moment (in avgs) are:
Ablett
Watson
Selwood
Pendlebury
Swan
Stanton
Kennedy
Franklin
Thompson
Deledio
Sidebottom
Naitanui
Then you see that outside of Swan and Naitanui (who have only played 9 games versus some who have played 11) all of these players have some sort of claim to being top 15 in the comp at the moment.
Certainly Watson, Pendlebury, Kennedy and Deledio would fill out my top 5 in some order with Thompson, Sidebottom and Stanton following.

 

[Jade]

Yeah Natanui - Kreuzer isn't quite coming along on the 'development curve' as expected.

 

[Gone Critical]

Certainly CD is not the end point, but it is a good starting point.
Otherwise any position can be regarded as purely an opinion (which is fine, but some facts never hurt).
CD is not always accurate but when you see that the top 12 at the moment (in avgs) are:
Ablett
Watson
Selwood
Pendlebury
Swan
Stanton
Kennedy
Franklin
Thompson
Deledio
Sidebottom
Naitanui
Then you see that outside of Swan and Naitanui (who have only played 9 games versus some who have played 11) all of these players have some sort of claim to being top 15 in the comp at the moment.
Certainly Watson, Pendlebury, Kennedy and Deledio would fill out my top 5 in some order with Thompson, Sidebottom and Stanton following.

Swan has been very good this year, a proven champ. Not sure when he slipped out of contention for a top 15 spot. He may not be having his best year but it's still very good. A guy like Sidebottom is starting to approach Swan like performance but currently over a fairly short time frame. He hasn't come near to going past Swan. Sorry to be off topic

 

[Gone Critical]

Kreuzer looks good but has stalled a little in development. Nic Nat looks like a phenomenon. He potentially may redefine ruck play. It's now no contest as who you would pick given the chance. Even Carlton supporters who love Krooze would mostly quietly admit they would do the swap given the chance I reckon.

 

[eaglespremiers]

Swan has been very good this year, a proven champ. Not sure when he slipped out of contention for a top 15 spot. He may not be having his best year but it's still very good. A guy like Sidebottom is starting to approach Swan like performance but currently over a fairly short time frame. He hasn't come near to going past Swan. Sorry to be off topic

My point there was mainly that Swan and Naitanui were behind the others in their claims for a top 15 spot.
Certainly I would rate Swan in my top 30 this year (as you will be able to see when I update my top 50 over on the lists board).
So certainly not out of contention.
But you do emphasize my point.

 

[lmach]

You can not tell me that, given the opportunity, every Carlton supporter wouldn't swap Kreuzer for Naita.

 

[eaglespremiers]

You can not tell me that, given the opportunity, every Carlton supporter wouldn't swap Kreuzer for Naita.

It's possible that many would still want Kreuzer.
However, if comparing two players (regardless of club needs) there is no way I'd take Kreuzer ahead of Cotchin.

 

[Slattery_20]

Complete myth. He's adept at small 'flick' type handpasses to either side of his body, so people often mistake them for throws.

Handballs legitimately much more often than most players in scrappy situations actually

Sometimes you can't even see his 'punching' hand slip out from the tackle, execute a perfect 5m handpass, then go back into the tackle where it was pinned. Apparently the umpires can see it though so it's all OK.

To me, it just looks like he is a shocking chucker.

 

[eaglespremiers]

Sometimes you can't even see his 'punching' hand slip out from the tackle, execute a perfect 5m handpass, then go back into the tackle where it was pinned. Apparently the umpires can see it though so it's all OK.

To me, it just looks like he is a shocking chucker.

Can't be too shocking if he's convinced others, including the umpires, that his "throws" are legitimate handballs.

To be honest, it seems like there are a lot of throws occurring in footy at the moment, really needs to be stamped out.

 

[Slattery_20]

Should I have said "very good" chucker then?

Virtually all players do it but he is just about the worst.
Umps are dazzled by him, same as every commentator, & most fans. He's an amazing player, but christ he gets away with a lot of throws.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Nic Nat very comfortably. I can't believe that in another poll thread last year that I nominated Zac Smith as being better too, oops!

 

[Mattman93]

Should I have said "very good" chucker then?

Virtually all players do it but he is just about the worst.
Umps are dazzled by him, same as every commentator, & most fans. He's an amazing player, but christ he gets away with a lot of throws.

No, you're not watching closely enough, honestly most of the time they're legitimate handpasses. Often I'll get home and watch the replay and it's much harder to pick up on TV, sometimes the commentators will even chuckle and go "Naitanui throws it out" when I KNOW that it was proper handball.

His size and reflexes mean he gets his hands free very easily in the tackle and from there, like I said, he's adept at the lightning fast 'flick' handball off the left or right side without having to move his upper arms much.

West Coast play by a different set of rules than the rest of the comp.

Lol, Hawthorn are probably the worst at constantly moving the ball forward with blatant throws and continue to get away with it. Was so obvious when we played you at Subiaco this year.

 

[tigers_of_old_08]

Surely this is a troll poll??

Nat in a heart beat - no competition

 

[Ed_Gein]

Kreuzer will finish his career on a similar level to Justin Koschitzke and no more.

Ceiling is sky high for NicNat though. Once he develops some consistency, he could be a modern great.

 

[Jako Darling]

< not sure if thread serious

 

[steveo898]

Kreuzer will finish his career on a similar level to Justin Koschitzke and no more.

Ceiling is sky high for NicNat though. Once he develops some consistency, he could be a modern great.

Unforntunatly this could true, I love Kreuzer's effort but IMO the knee injury could have ruined his potential to be in the elite ruck category along side Dean Cox etc. I hope not, he is still young & has more then enough dedication but I just hope his body can hold up.

Nic Nat though is awesome to watch & I love how exciting he is, I hope he keeps progressing at the rate he is & he will become the one of the best players in the game, reminds me of buddy franklin except as a ruckman.

 

[Jack_the_Ninja]

Natanui because he has some untapped potential, Kruezer you know what your getting from day one - good workhorse and smart footballer but has a ceiling. If only Natanui could of played footy from Auskick onwards everyone would be in agreeance here but sadly I think he may never fully develop into a game winner week in week out but be more of a weekly highlight for single efforts.

 

[raymagoo]

When nicnat learns to finesse (spelling) he will be an absolute gun! hence why i vote for him! love kreuzer and he will be special but would take nicnat in a heartbeat!

 

[eaglespremiers]

Natanui because he has some untapped potential, Kruezer you know what your getting from day one - good workhorse and smart footballer but has a ceiling. If only Natanui could of played footy from Auskick onwards everyone would be in agreeance here but sadly I think he may never fully develop into a game winner week in week out but be more of a weekly highlight for single efforts.

If Naitanui played football from Auskick level he wouldn't be playing for us now.