Player Watch Nathan Kreuger (Delisted 2024)

[Kirby]

I’m not convinced that Cox can’t recapture his 2023 form, and actually excited about Kreuger’s potential.
But at this point he needs to show a lot more to go past Cox at his best.

And Cox needs to show a lot more (when back) to be at his best.

Btw, when we talk about Cox’s superior ruck work we are only really talking about the centre bounces. He’s average at best at around the ground ball ups and terrible at throw ins.

 

[Apex36]

I’m not convinced that Cox can’t recapture his 2023 form, and actually excited about Kreuger’s potential.
But at this point he needs to show a lot more to go past Cox at his best.

But Cox hasn’t been at his best all year, or even close to it. Past exploits mean very little in regards to current form. The onus is on Cox to recapture form as a forward while maintaining his ruck form in order to go ahead of Kreuger, who is now the incumbent. Coming off the same knee injury that hobbled Cameron in the second half of 2023, I’m not sure he’s going to be capable of that.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Plenty of time for Kreuger to lock in a spot. Cox might well be depth and the Cameron insurance…. Will be disappointing for him if that eventuates but he’s a premiership player now and will be forever so the dissppointment will abate. We also need mcstay to show some VFL form before he’s an automatic selection in the seniors but I’m pretty confident that shouldn’t be an issue.

 

[No SPIN]

And Cox needs to show a lot more (when back) to be at his best.

Btw, when we talk about Cox’s superior ruck work we are only really talking about the centre bounces. He’s average at best at around the ground ball ups and terrible at throw ins.

We are very likely to face some tough Ruck combo’s in finals eg. Pittonet and DK, Draper and Goldstein.
Are we really going to prefer Kreuger over Cox in this scenario?

I just can’t see it.

 

[Pistol Night]

We are very likely to face some tough Ruok combo’s in finals eg. Pittonet and DK, Draper and Goldstein.
Are we really going to prefer Kreuger over Cox in this scenario?

I just can’t see it.

He doesnt get any shorter late in games

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

We are very likely to face some tough Ruok combo’s in finals eg. Pittonet and DK, Draper and Goldstein.
Are we really going to prefer Kreuger over Cox in this scenario?

I just can’t see it.

Pittonet isn’t even getting a game for similar reasons and Draper is struggling

 

[jathanas]

Yeah, I have the same conundrums. It'll come down to who's performing the best at the time I suppose.

As it should be.

If Krueger manages to stay healthy the club's forward-line dynamic will change.

Compared to Cox he's faster, has a more penetrating kick, a stronger tackle, and a better ground-level game.

Cox is the better ruck.

Nathan's fitness history is working against him so the above is speculative but to me, the side looks more dangerous with him playing.

 

[Apex36]

We are very likely to face some tough Ruok combo’s in finals eg. Pittonet and DK, Draper and Goldstein.
Are we really going to prefer Kreuger over Cox in this scenario?

I just can’t see it.

Carlton won’t be dual rucking in finals. Their record when playing both rucks vs just TDK this year speaks for itself. It doesn’t work for them.

Essendon are pretenders, they’ll scrape in to the 8 and bomb out. Which other fearsome ruck combos have you got?

 

[sr36]

Yeah, I have the same conundrums. It'll come down to who's performing the best at the time I suppose.

Or whose fit. It'll be a great dilemma if all of Cox, Freddy and McStay are fit and are playing well enough to justify selection. But that's 2 boxes to tick for all three of them. And at the moment Freddy being fit is the only box that's currently ticked and it's a box that may not remain ticked.

At the moment, I just hope Freddy plays well and the other two don't have any recovery hiccups.

 

[sr36]

We are very likely to face some tough Ruck combo’s in finals eg. Pittonet and DK, Draper and Goldstein.
Are we really going to prefer Kreuger over Cox in this scenario?

I just can’t see it.

.I doubt we'd pick Cox for defensive reasons, when Krueger provides better defence in other areas, particularly as Sydney, Carlton and I think Brissy will be the other major contenders and likely to only play one genuine ruck.

If we pick Cox it'll be about either form and fitness or giving us an advantage in the ruck, having a better pack mark up forward and his big stage record.

 

[FatherTime]

We are very likely to face some tough Ruck combo’s in finals eg. Pittonet and DK, Draper and Goldstein.
Are we really going to prefer Kreuger over Cox in this scenario?

I just can’t see it.

You don't need to see it now. You just need to bide your time until the players have presented a recent portfolio of evidence of their respective form. Then you will be in a position to make a choice rather than guess on the basis of limited AFL exposure to Kreuger and zero of current form from Cox.

 

[Mollythedolly]

And Cox needs to show a lot more (when back) to be at his best.

Btw, when we talk about Cox’s superior ruck work we are only really talking about the centre bounces. He’s average at best at around the ground ball ups and terrible at throw ins.

Cox at his best is reliant upon his marking, both forward and around the ground. I wonder what impact his hand injury has been having on his marking consistency. Will he be completely over it when he resumes?

PS: I think he’s just as impactful at around the ground stoppages as centre square stoppages.

 

[manicpie]

Cox at his best is reliant upon his marking, both forward and around the ground. I wonder what impact his hand injury has been having on his marking consistency. Will he be completely over it when he resumes?

PS: I think he’s just as impactful at around the ground stoppages as centre square stoppages.

Cox needs to get to more down the line contests when he is rucking.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Cox needs to get to more down the line contests when he is rucking.

Could say the same of most ruckmen, Gawn probably the exception.

 

[sr36]

Cox needs to get to more down the line contests when he is rucking.

So does whoever plays second ruck. Cameron has become a gun for us because he can clunk it and pushes back to good spots making him behind only Gawn in his ability to get behind play and strengthen the defensive wall.

I supect that was one of the reasons why we tried Frampton as second ruck again, but he doesn't get to the right spots.

 

[sr36]

You don't need to see it now. You just need to bide your time until the players have presented a recent portfolio of evidence of their respective form. Then you will be in a position to make a choice rather than guess on the basis of limited AFL exposure to Kreuger and zero of current form from Cox.

Yep. Lots will occur before it's time to make a call. The way I see it is that McStay is no star. And there's a fair chance that he'll be well below his best with limited footy coming off an ACL. I don't see him as a given. If Freddy goes well enough over the next 2 months, it could be about Cox or McStay or it could be about whether either of them are playing well enough and whether we'd be better off with whe and a small forward line. Or Freddy might bomb from here or get injured.

 

[jmac70]

Yep. Lots will occur before it's time to make a call. The way I see it is that McStay is no star. And there's a fair chance that he'll be well below his best with limited footy coming off an ACL. I don't see him as a given. If Freddy goes well enough over the next 2 months, it could be about Cox or McStay or it could be about whether either of them are playing well enough and whether we'd be better off with whe and a small forward line. Or Freddy might bomb from here or get injured.

McStay will walk straight back into the 22.

 

[sr36]

McStay will walk straight back into the 22.

Probably, but he seems to have improved a heap since he did his ACL... He's a solid player, but no star and can't afford to be far below his best to justify a place if the other 2 are playing decently.

 

[3rdMan]

I might arguably have been generous to cox based on his historical body of work…. However at the end of the day you’re agreeing with me so I’m not sure what your point was.

It wasn't to disagree, hence the "And you're". There was no criticism meant.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

So does whoever plays second ruck. Cameron has become a gun for us because he can clunk it and pushes back to good spots making him behind only Gawn in his ability to get behind play and strengthen the defensive wall.

I supect that was one of the reasons why we tried Frampton as second ruck again, but he doesn't get to the right spots.

Been waiting for someone to actually say why we play 2 ruckman.

Albeit it flys in the face of your last post which said we don’t play cox for defensive reasons (hint: we do!!)

We play 2 ruckmen because, you know….nonone else does!!

It makes others worry about our structure over this constant thinking that we play 2 ruckman to counter others…..it’s actually the opposite.

our value in ruckman ain’t taps (see Melb v Gawn for example).

It’s defensive structure behind the ball.
As well as the down the line mark/contest.

We play two ruckman because we want that extra tall behind the ball. It stabilises us against the long ball and allows Moore and co to zone off.

As soon as they don’t go fast, we have one of our two ruckman playing behind the ball (because we always have one on the ground).
It gives our runners confidence because they don’t need to compete in the air.

It’s a subtle but very important aspect of why we can defend so well.

We don’t value 3 talls flying for the same ball inside 50.

But this is a convo for another time.
I sincerely hope Kreugs forces us to change our thinking.
But as it stands, we are poorer structurally without 2 ruckman (don’t care who it is).

 

[sr36]

Been waiting for someone to actually say why we play 2 ruckman.

Albeit it flys in the face of your last post which said we don’t play cox for defensive reasons (hint: we do!!)

We play 2 ruckmen because, you know….nonone else does!!

It makes others worry about our structure over this constant thinking that we play 2 ruckman to counter others…..it’s actually the opposite.

our value in ruckman ain’t taps (see Melb v Gawn for example).

It’s defensive structure behind the ball.
As well as the down the line mark/contest.

We play two ruckman because we want that extra tall behind the ball. It stabilises us against the long ball and allows Moore and co to zone off.

As soon as they don’t go fast, we have one of our two ruckman playing behind the ball (because we always have one on the ground).
It gives our runners confidence because they don’t need to compete in the air.

It’s a subtle but very important aspect of why we can defend so well.

We don’t value 3 talls flying for the same ball inside 50.

But this is a convo for another time.
I sincerely hope Kreugs forces us to change our thinking.
But as it stands, we are poorer structurally without 2 ruckman (don’t care who it is).

Yeah in that previous post, I simply meant - strategically defensive - eg. concern over what the opposition 2nd ruck will do against ours around stoppage. I think we value the re-enforcement to the defensive wall that we get from a ruck as much as anything else - hence willingness to let Grundy go - despite him being immense around stoppage.

Where I disagree with you is that I don't think it has to be a ruck player to provide that re-enforcement to the defensive wall - it just needs a marking player who gets to the right spots, but Cox has been preferred because he pushes back better than the others do, as well as being a better tap ruckman and providing a better pack marking target for slow entries. So he does 3 parts of the role we want from him better than the forwards who can chop out. If our thinking changes and a fit Cox misses out, I think it'll be more about whether we have options and decide to tweak our structures to be better in different areas.

 

[jmac70]

Probably, but he seems to have improved a heap since he did his ACL... He's a solid player, but no star and can't afford to be far below his best to justify a place if the other 2 are playing decently.

McStay gives us a genuine target because he can take a contested mark.

Kreuger can’t do that.

 

[Pistol Night]

McStay gives us a genuine target because he can take a contested mark.

Kreuger can’t do that.

He won some massive 1 on 1s V Taylor in the prelim. Covers the ground well

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Probably, but he seems to have improved a heap since he did his ACL... He's a solid player, but no star and can't afford to be far below his best to justify a place if the other 2 are playing decently.

Mcstay kicked 17 goals in his nine games after returning from injury in round 18 last year. That’s a Coventry medal goal rate on a par with Mihocek.

 

[Pistol Night]

Mcstay kicked 17 goals in his nine games after returning from injury in round 18 last year. That’s a Coventry medal goal rate on a par with Mihocek.

Thats all we want. 5 or 6 guys that can kick 1-2 a game and a few from the mids. Relying on a KPF can be too predictable sometimes. Look at Sydney now Buddys gone