WA are playing Qld next year at Rushton Park:
http://www.wafootball.com.au/wafl/2409-2011-wafl-state-game-announced-as-part-of-official-opening
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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Expansion National second-tier league, Foxtel the broadcaster
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WA are playing Qld next year at Rushton Park:
http://www.wafootball.com.au/wafl/2409-2011-wafl-state-game-announced-as-part-of-official-opening
My mail is Port Magpies are playing round 3 in Sydney.
Woodpecker Warrior
Debutant
I most definitely did read it. You posted it.
i.e not enough money. Who the hell do they think they are? Collingwood?
Someone should remind them that they are a community based, semi-professional (at best) state league club based in Adelaide, whose objectives include the furtherance of Australian football.
Given the rules haven't even been finalised yet, it's no wonder several things remain unresolved. So that's just a pathetic excuse given they make no mention of exactly what they are. Hell, i'm still yet to see any evidence that major sponsors are going to be excluded (and in any case, given they're excluding themselves from the competition voluntarily, then that's hardly a way to get more exposure for them). The rest of it was just being unhappy about playing more games - yet the competition is arranged so clubs will play the minimum possible number of games. It's a straight knockout FFS! If they're not happy with that format then there isn't a possible format where they will be. Did they want byes in the first couple of rounds just because they're SANFL clubs?
It's just a general objection in a way to cover up the fact they don't have the guts to compete. Keep in mind every state league (including the SANFL), and every other club in the country invited to compete are happy to be a part of it. It's just a tiny minority of clubs that think they're bigger than what they actually are. I guess it's about putting the interests of the league and the game as a whole ahead of the selfish interests of your club.
They've deadset piked it.
You're not all there are you?
Clubs have declined to participate, they don't see that it is in their best interest.
Its their right.
Just as its Foxtel's right to pay what they want and present it how they wish.
We are not on Foxtels book, so we can do as we please.
and W.A should beat us well.
1 qafl team will make it through to the next round. the draw that came out had morningside against the thunder in the first game. i don't think who ever wins that game will go to far after that
invinciBlues
Norm Smith Medallist
Not sure where you get off calling them "strong" clubs. A strong club, like Swan Districts, would have seized this opportunity to assert their authority. . .
It's not money on the line here, it's pride.
CambridgeOxford
Debutant
Just going by the fact that all have double the salary caps of any WAFL side, are regarded by most as being in the strongest league outside AFL and includes one club who have won 6 out of last 7 flags. Just some facts I guess...
Not saying WAFL clubs are not strong. Just the fact that the AFL did not bother to respect sanfl club concerns.
Thus the comp has been rendered a sham.
Dirty Bird
Pokémon Master
yawn - good concept, but it's rushed, and I can't blame clubs who have their eye for a premiership to potentially hurt their season, for a league which doesn't have the full details right now. If the AFL switched it and confirmed details this week, and the teams in about 2 weeks, then it'd be more likely in getting Centrals/Sturt/Eagles/Glenelg/Norwood involvement. But why should these teams risk a premiership, by confirming they'll be in, when it's still just an idea, no permanent plans set in stone
btw
AFL players allowed - VFL will dominate the competition
AFL players NOT allowed - a SANFL or WAFL team will win, it'll come down to who ever avoids travelling to the other state the longest untill the remainder of the 6 teams are knocked out
btw
AFL players allowed - VFL will dominate the competition
AFL players NOT allowed - a SANFL or WAFL team will win, it'll come down to who ever avoids travelling to the other state the longest untill the remainder of the 6 teams are knocked out
And why haven't they been confirmed? You can't expect clubs to commit to something when they don't have all the information. It's poor form by Fox and the AFL to expect any different. If they wanted the competition up and running for next year they should have consulted with the clubs first, set out the rules and then invited them to join.
Very good point. Foxtel/AFL knew there were going to be 17 AFL teams in 2011 for 2 years. They've had that long to organise and then they put forward this concept after SANFL clubs would have already drawn up their plans for 2011.
I love the idea of this Champions League and wish my team (WWT Eagles) were involved, however I can totally understand why we're not and respect the CDFC/NFC/WWTFC/GFC/SFC decision.
Good luck to those teams competing. Hopefully I'll catch the last half of some of these games on Fox after watching my team battle it out on Saturday afternoon in a competition which truly counts.
Dirty Bird
Pokémon Master
Glenelg's reasonings are different the other 4
the other 4 - focus on the SANFL premiership, not enough cash incentive, sponsors probably will not be given full esposure
Glenelg - insulted that they're being treated as the spot filler to ensure the SANFL has competitors in this competition
the other 4 - focus on the SANFL premiership, not enough cash incentive, sponsors probably will not be given full esposure
Glenelg - insulted that they're being treated as the spot filler to ensure the SANFL has competitors in this competition
Blue and Silver
Brownlow Medallist
Of course they have to allow AFL players. VFL clubs are ATM pretty much only AFL club reserves. If they weren't then they would be more active in seeking out second tier players and it is likely that the QAFL, WAFL and SANFL would all experience a degree of talent drain into to the VFL clubs who have a whole team sheet to fill.
The travel call is a cop-out. AFL teams, particularly non-Victorian teams do it every week, it is all about appropriate list management, which surely these teams possess. Home ground advantage is something every team has to deal with and enjoys from time to time.
The comp is a good idea, which would be made better if AFL sides had a reserves comp, so that the second tier was really just that, a second tier. So how about we expand AFL lists to 50-odd, make them field a reserves comp for curtain-raisers. Then we can have a national second tier champions comp in the pre-season (instead of the NAB Cup) with the teams selected based on last years ladder positions. The comp will start to level out when the VFL starts poaching talent (some of it back home) and as the NEAFL grows.
And where has it been suggested that it's not their right? You're reading things that aren't there.
It is their right to do as they please, just as it's my right to say they're a bunch of selfish cowards. Which they are.
Swanny D's will flog all of yous so it doesn't matter
To quote the WAFL operations manager:
"There was a lot of discussion, certainly things like player payments, travel, how many support staff will go,'' he said.
"But they've shown a bit of vision and that it offers a lot more . . . an interstate platform."
That shows at least there has been consultation with the clubs.
It has been a bit rushed, I think ideally it's the sort of thing that should be flagged 12 months in advance. But the opportunity has presented itself, and if every club had the attitude of the spineless SANFL clubs it may never present itself again. Sometimes you just have to take a risk for the good of the game.
Hell, worst case scenario you field a team of kids and rest your best players and get them some national TV exposure. I'm sure then the SANFL clubs will complain that it puts their objective of a reserves premiership at risk and therefore isn't worth it.
simba_
sucking a lemon
all of yous
They probably will now.
Gee there are some geniuses on here.
And sorry, which was it? That they've put first "the selfish interests of [their] club", i.e. they've made a financial decision, or "they don't have the guts to compete", i.e they've made an emotional one? Can you get your own story straight for a second?
I would love to see my team, Norwood, play on a national stage. We have a history with this sort of thing. The last (quasi) national competition that Norwood won was the Ardath Cup (ah, the days when sporting comps were sponsored by tobacco) in 1977; ironically in the context of the current debate, VFL clubs pulled out of this NFL-organised comp after 1976 and VFA clubs subbed in for them that year. And Norwood spanked Carlton by a lazy 100 points in the previous year's "Wills Cup". But I acknowledge that the Norwood FC has looked in good faith at what was put before them, and decided that it doesn't add up financially, when you bear in mind the principal aim of the club—and also when you bear in mind that they were given a certain deadline to 'take it or leave it' to a deal that still lacked critical details.
People will be disappointed with that decision. Fair enough. But all of the conspiracy theories that these clubs are really, really scared that they might be beaten by Labrador or the Northern Bullants or whoever, and further terrified that the prestige of the SANFL competition might take a battering as a result, are silly. If you really think that these clubs are second-rate, then they wouldn't be missed; you're banging on about them being gutless, spineless, not caring about promoting the game nationally etc because you do acknowledge that their absence hurts the comp, i.e. because you don't believe the conspiracy theory yourself.
What interest do these 5 clubs have in gathering for one big conspiracy; and if they did, why wouldn't they get all 9 clubs in on it? The fact is that all 5 have independently looked at it, and each of them have said that for the administrative costs of competing, and the competitive disadvantage reducing their chances of winning the SANFL premiership in 2011 (which in turn would be a financial windfall), outweighs the prizemoney and other financial upside. Those SANFL clubs who have accepted, are those who finished outside the finals in 2010 and recognise they're not a terribly realistic chance of winning the 2011 SANFL premiership anyway, so the 'damage' to them in that sense is far less, and it's easier for the upside to outweigh it. VFL, WAFL and other leagues' clubs have accepted and will accept, because they are running smaller businesses with smaller turnover, so the relative value of the potential prizemoney to them, is greater. You want the biggest clubs, you have to pay enough to attract the biggest.
Simple. Logical. Doesn't rely on any conspiracy theories in the other direction (e.g. 'WAFL clubs have only accepted because they're in Demetriou's pocket'.) Answers the endlessly-asked question, 'Why would youuuuuuuu turn it down when everyone eeeeeelse is coming?' Occam's razor in action.
Yeah, absolutely gutless. Refusing something being promoted by Foxtel and the AFL, and recommended by your own state's football league. I've never seen more pathetic rolling over to those in power in my life.
In the event that you were good at anything, I'd love to be in employment negotiations with you. "Look, are you going to accept the job or not? Sure, some things remain unresolved—like work hours, conditions and pay. That's the nature of the beast when we're still working out the rules of your job; if you're not lily livered and spineless, and you have the best interests of the industry at heart, you'll accept." [And once I have your signature, you've forfeited all bargaining power and I'll just impose on you whatever conditions suit me.]
And sorry, which was it? That they've put first "the selfish interests of [their] club", i.e. they've made a financial decision, or "they don't have the guts to compete", i.e they've made an emotional one? Can you get your own story straight for a second?
You realise that this is the 'Club of the Year', a little trinket handed out to club administrators who run tight ships, and not the prizemoney for the premier who wins the Thomas Seymour Hill trophy? No? Small hint for absolute geniuses: the very name of the PDF to which you've linked, is 'Benchmarking'. The structure of the SANFL finals series is not: Elimination final, Qualifying final, 1st Semi final, 2nd Semi final, Preliminary final, Benchmarking. With everything you obviously know about the SANFL, it's good that we've got you to put a few myths to bed for us.
I would love to see my team, Norwood, play on a national stage. We have a history with this sort of thing. The last (quasi) national competition that Norwood won was the Ardath Cup (ah, the days when sporting comps were sponsored by tobacco) in 1977; ironically in the context of the current debate, VFL clubs pulled out of this NFL-organised comp after 1976 and VFA clubs subbed in for them that year. And Norwood spanked Carlton by a lazy 100 points in the previous year's "Wills Cup". But I acknowledge that the Norwood FC has looked in good faith at what was put before them, and decided that it doesn't add up financially, when you bear in mind the principal aim of the club—and also when you bear in mind that they were given a certain deadline to 'take it or leave it' to a deal that still lacked critical details.
People will be disappointed with that decision. Fair enough. But all of the conspiracy theories that these clubs are really, really scared that they might be beaten by Labrador or the Northern Bullants or whoever, and further terrified that the prestige of the SANFL competition might take a battering as a result, are silly. If you really think that these clubs are second-rate, then they wouldn't be missed; you're banging on about them being gutless, spineless, not caring about promoting the game nationally etc because you do acknowledge that their absence hurts the comp, i.e. because you don't believe the conspiracy theory yourself.
What interest do these 5 clubs have in gathering for one big conspiracy; and if they did, why wouldn't they get all 9 clubs in on it? The fact is that all 5 have independently looked at it, and each of them have said that for the administrative costs of competing, and the competitive disadvantage reducing their chances of winning the SANFL premiership in 2011 (which in turn would be a financial windfall), outweighs the prizemoney and other financial upside. Those SANFL clubs who have accepted, are those who finished outside the finals in 2010 and recognise they're not a terribly realistic chance of winning the 2011 SANFL premiership anyway, so the 'damage' to them in that sense is far less, and it's easier for the upside to outweigh it. VFL, WAFL and other leagues' clubs have accepted and will accept, because they are running smaller businesses with smaller turnover, so the relative value of the potential prizemoney to them, is greater. You want the biggest clubs, you have to pay enough to attract the biggest.
Simple. Logical. Doesn't rely on any conspiracy theories in the other direction (e.g. 'WAFL clubs have only accepted because they're in Demetriou's pocket'.) Answers the endlessly-asked question, 'Why would youuuuuuuu turn it down when everyone eeeeeelse is coming?' Occam's razor in action.
Edward Teach
Team Captain
Well put.
It's very disappointing that the AFL cannot seem to negotiate.
The issue lays firmly at the feet of the AFL & Foxtel.
I could understand why the big 5 clubs like Glenelg wouldn't want to be a part of it. When you consider the SA Tigers haven't won the SANFL premiership since 1986 (the Graham Cornes era. Players from that time like Steve Kernahan, Chris McDermott, Tony McGuinness, David Marshall went on to play in the AFL), and also realising their chance to win the SANFL flag might have been slammed shut after last year's performance in the finals, it's easier to see why the Bays are so desperate to win the SANFL premiership in 2011.
At least it's good to see North Adelaide get involved. Long-time footy followers would remember the 1972 Australian Championships, where SA legend Barrie Robran played the game of his life to almost win the game on his own for North Adelaide against the 1972 VFL premiers, Carlton.
At least it's good to see North Adelaide get involved. Long-time footy followers would remember the 1972 Australian Championships, where SA legend Barrie Robran played the game of his life to almost win the game on his own for North Adelaide against the 1972 VFL premiers, Carlton.
Dirty Bird
Pokémon Master
we did win the game...
I don't agree that it is their job to further Australian football.
That is the job of the AFL. Their only obligation is to their supporters, sponsors and the SANFL.
One could argue the SANFL are at fault in leaving it up to the clubs to decide but then you could also argue the clubs are at fault for not giving enough power to the SANFL to do so.
It does show a weakness in the structure of the SANFL when this sort of thing occurs.
The SANFL are very club orientated as the 2 AFL sub license holders would know only too well.
Sure, it's their right to not join in, and if it's a matter of weighing it up against their main aim, then maybe fair enough, even if I disagree.
Would have thought the sponsors thing would be sorted out if that were the only issue. Bit tricky, since sponsors didn't pay for national exposure, but it also diminishes what they are getting if the club runs around with a different jersey in a comp that is in some ways more prestigious.
The idea that AFLis doing this for GWS is ridiculous, even apart from the plans for 2012-2013. Clearly simply slotting them into the 2011 version of a Foxtel plan. An extra one, two or maybe even 4 games isn't going to make much difference to them.
When it comes down to it, just seems that there are a decent number of people in SA football that think the best way to influence things is to boycott until they're happy. Right or wrong?
Would have thought the sponsors thing would be sorted out if that were the only issue. Bit tricky, since sponsors didn't pay for national exposure, but it also diminishes what they are getting if the club runs around with a different jersey in a comp that is in some ways more prestigious.
The idea that AFLis doing this for GWS is ridiculous, even apart from the plans for 2012-2013. Clearly simply slotting them into the 2011 version of a Foxtel plan. An extra one, two or maybe even 4 games isn't going to make much difference to them.
When it comes down to it, just seems that there are a decent number of people in SA football that think the best way to influence things is to boycott until they're happy. Right or wrong?
It's their second-tier league and why be national when you can be multinational
Gets higher ratings then A-league matches and most Super 14 ones too.
Now you just made that up didn't you, there's no way that could be true.
Edward Teach
Team Captain
So would we all but the AFL/Foxtel would not negotiate only dictate.
Wrong. So would you suggest joining competition that is detrimental to your club? The problem is the AFL - they dictate. A compromise could have been reached but their revenue was deemed more important than SANFL club exposure and competition integrity.
Have an insider very high up at the Redlegs. They were in with bells on when it was proposed. Read through fine print - conditions were hard-line, and sponsors got screwed - meaning nil real exposure. AFL unwilling to budge an inch. Very disappointed - contacted other clubs... found similar dismay at the rules and AFL attitude. Released joint statement.
Norwood also lost 8 players in the AFL drafts.
The AFL have the problem - they are dictators - totally out of touch with real clubs. They will not negotiate.
Blaming SANFL clubs is total BS.
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