Moved Thread Neutral fans: Hawkins or Riewoldt?

[STPer18]

Hawkins was rubbish that day, he did nothing until Reid started limping, then he took a few grabs but missed his shots badly... no matter, donkey Mick left Reid on him one out so Hawk kept getting multiple chances til eventually some went through, only 3 though

If that was Riewoldt that day instead of Hawkins, he would have kicked 10

Yeah for sure. No doubt.

 

[Alesana]

Taking out the game where Jack got concussed against St Kilda and had only 6% game time, Jack just slightly averaged more goals than Buddy did in 2018

Ok so Jack essentially missed one game that year.
Buddy missed the 4 games whilst kicking just 6 less goals. That's also with 10 more behinds than Jack, so even with the 3 less games played he still managed to get more shots at goal.
Jeremy Cameron also missed 6 games.
Josh Kennedy also missed 11 games.

He just won them in weak years.

 

[citizen-erased]

Hawkins. Would be my first pick for a FF when building a team

 

[Osho]

Jack Riewoldt is criminally underrated, his cousin the reverse. Tom is a fantastic player, his latter career and form is a surprise, a happy one, to me. Jack has some behaviours people dont like and that influences opinion. His footy IQ is through the roof.

 

[projectv]

Hawkins and it's not close.

 

[Sprout]

Hawkins by a country mile.

 

[Jim Levenstein]

If Dimma hadn’t have got all team oriented, Jack would have another 300 goals. Both are extraordinary but I’m nudging towards Jack for individual brilliance

 

[Pessimistic]

I thought jack was the most suited key forward for the times


Toma should be an inspiration to any young key forward. He’s hot now but his early years were very underwhelming

 

[Engimal v3]

The one who is actually good at football lol

 

[WilloTree]

Hawkins for mine.

 

[Pessimistic]

Jack Riewoldt is criminally underrated, his cousin the reverse. Tom is a fantastic player, his latter career and form is a surprise, a happy one, to me. Jack has some behaviours people dont like and that influences opinion. His footy IQ is through the roof.

I quite like his cheeky rascal side

 

[Gameova_]

Hawkins.

 

[jc12]

Tom was brilliant in a Grand Final, Nick had the smother. So Tom wins.

Jack I dont think is as good as either. But isnt that far off.

Jack kicked 5 in a granny lol

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Tom Hawkins

26

Tom Hawkins

Age

36

Ht

197cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.2

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

4.4

3star

M

5.5

5star

T

1.9

4star

G

2.1

5star

D

12.7

3star

K

8.6

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

5.1

5star

T

2.1

3star

G

1.6

5star

D

7.8

2star

K

5.6

3star

HB

2.2

2star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.0

3star

G

2.2

5star

Comfortably

Riewoldt always struck me as bit of a downhill skier

 

[Do the Dew]

It takes a special kind of one-eyed nuffie to claim Hawkins' performance in the 2011 GF was anything other than phenomenal. Especially so when you consider Podsiadly was subbed out half-way during the 2nd quarter and he was playing a lone hand. Watch more football.

I agree Hawkins efforts in that GF were phenomenal considering the only other key forward Geelong had couldn't play due to injury.

Seems eerily similar to 2017, when Richmond's only other key forward Ben Griffiths effectively retired due to concussion, meant that Jack had to play the entire season as the sole key forward (compared to just a portion of a game), often in 1v2 or 1v3 matchups. Kicked 54 snags for the year and without him we don't win the flag.

Kept it going in 2018 as well kicking 70 snags.

 

[The Unforgiven]

One for the Germanic scholars but is it properly pronounced REEwoldt or RAYwoldt?

Whichever way it's pronounced, if the 'w' is pronounced the phonetically English way, as opposed to 'v', then it's wrong.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Tom Hawkins Comfortably

Riewoldt always struck me as bit of a downhill skier

Downhill skiing seems to be your delineator.

Yet you choose Hawkins “comfortably" who was born into the privilege of never played in a team with a losing record over Riewoldt who kicked 78 goals in a team that won 6 matches for the season in 2010 as a 21yo, and has played in 7 losing seasons.

Makes perfect sense.

This thread seems to come down to a popularity contest or an expression of people’s misunderstandings of the players concerned based on myths.

You could make viable arguments for either player having been marginally better than the other on some objective basis, or you could say there is too little between them to be able to choose.

Statistically Jack does a bit better for tackles, 1%ers, inside 50’s.

They are too close to call in goals + goal assists, disposals, marks inside 50.

Hawkins does better in hit outs, and a bit better in contested possessions.

What it probably comes down to is whether or not you give Jack credit for doing it in a team that has won 54% of the games in which he has played where Hawkins has played in a team that has won 71% of the games he has played in.

It would make sense to me the forward who has played in appreciably weaker teams overall and come up with an almost identical objective record has done a little better…..to this point.

Thread questions like this should never be entrusted to neutrals with nfi.

 

[RAPPA]

Whereas Hawkins has been getting better with age, Jack has fallen off the cliff so recency bias can skew it in favour of Hawkins.

 

[BigPond101]

Hawkins by default I cant stand Riewoldt

 

[Osho]

Downhill skiing seems to be your delineator.

Yet you choose Hawkins “comfortably" who was born into the privilege of never played in a team with a losing record over Riewoldt who kicked 78 goals in a team that won 6 matches for the season in 2010 as a 21yo, and has played in 7 losing seasons.

Makes perfect sense.

This thread seems to come down to a popularity contest or an expression of people’s misunderstandings of the players concerned based on myths.

You could make viable arguments for either player having been marginally better than the other on some objective basis, or you could say there is too little between them to be able to choose.

Statistically Jack does a bit better for tackles, 1%ers, inside 50’s.

They are too close to call in goals + goal assists, disposals, marks inside 50.

Hawkins does better in hit outs, and a bit better in contested possessions.

What it probably comes down to is whether or not you give Jack credit for doing it in a team that has won 54% of the games in which he has played where Hawkins has played in a team that has won 71% of the games he has played in.

It would make sense to me the forward who has played in appreciably weaker teams overall and come up with an almost identical objective record has done a little better…..to this point.

Thread questions like this should never be entrusted to neutrals with nfi.

Bingo!
Plus, Jack supports our public transport system.

 

[Osho]

Hawkins by default I cant stand Riewoldt

Popularity contest!

 

[Schauermann]

Hawkins. Reiwoldt's Colemans tend to make him over-rated as strange as that sounds - he has two of the three lowest number of goals for a Coleman medal in the last 50 years. (excluding covid 2020).

Enter Tom Hawkins: 42 in 16 minute quarters. Make that 53 in 20 minute quarters. That is the lowest tally in the last 100 years. So funny argument...


But generelly I don't think they are a that far apart. Don't really know who I would prefer. Both had a pretty decent career.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Whereas Hawkins has been getting better with age, Jack has fallen off the cliff so recency bias can skew it in favour of Hawkins.

Hawkins averaged 3.3 goals + goal assists in 2021 in a team that had a 17-8 record.

Jack averaged 3.1 goals + goal assists in 2021 in a team that had a 9-1-12 record. Jack also submitted a very competitive contender for Mark of the Year.

Hawkins was last seen working on an entry for chest mark of the year.

So far in 2022 Hawkins is averaging 3.85 goals + goal assists but that is right up there with the best any player has recorded for a full season over his career.

Jack has been a bit quieter averaging 2.8 goals + goal assists this season but there is a long way to go. He has goaled in every game he has played this season and kicked multiple goals in 8 of his 11 matches. I wouldn’t think he has fallen off a cliff just yet.

 

[Daka]

Tom Hawkins Comfortably

Riewoldt always struck me as bit of a downhill skier

Coming from a Carlton supporter

 

[janty]

Only a discussion because Jack's Fox Footy buddies have re-written his career the last couple of years.