New Dream Team Board structure boring

[Saint KFC]

Ok so I reckon we have a new subforum "My DT" where people can spam about their own team. Those that do have the time to help can go in these threads and give advice. Isn't that what those NP guys are for? To give expert advice?

You're not serious, are you?

There is a difference between 'expert advice' and giving a one-word answer in a 'start Muston or Rich?' thread. Additionally, the people on the receiving on of the advice don't want to read a multi-paragraph assessment on a topic, they want a short, one-sentence answer - I'm not an NP member, but I'm fairly sure that providing a short, one-sentence answer to a problem that requires additional thought is contradictory to what NP try to achieve. Additionally, I highly doubt that NP members will have the persistence and fortitude to conduct such a scheme.

How much expert advice is getting to the average BF DT poster?

It gets to those who want to learn. Those who want nothing more than a one-word reply will tread water, those who want to improve will be forced to learn and will reap the benifets.

 

[Sibbo]

The whole point of the setup is to encourage individual thought and promote intelligent discussion. Although at face value it may appear as if the setup is not beneficial to the masses, it acts in improving them as DT'ers.

Tell me, who would get more out of a Rich --> Premium trade

The guy who posts and gets a one word answer and then runs off without any thought whatsoever and completes the trade

The guy who does a bit of research and investigates the BE of Rich and his premium targets, weighs up the pros and cons of each premium and eventually makes his own decision on the best course of action.

The DT community, as a whole, is a hell of a lot better prepared as DT'ers thanks to the current setup.

You're not serious, are you?

There is a difference between 'expert advice' and giving a one-word answer in a 'start Muston or Rich?' thread. Additionally, the people on the receiving on of the advice don't want to read a multi-paragraph assessment on a topic, they want a short, one-sentence answer - I'm not an NP member, but I'm fairly sure that providing a short, one-sentence answer to a problem that requires additional thought is contradictory to what NP try to achieve. Additionally, I highly doubt that NP members will have the persistence and fortitude to conduct such a scheme.

It gets to those who want to learn. Those who want nothing more than a one-word reply will tread water, those who want to improve will be forced to learn and will reap the benifets.

You keep mentioning that the objective of the board is to improve people as dreamteamers. What about those who are here to simply enjoy some dreamteam discussion, whether it improves them or not? In my opinion the old setup was definately more entertaining. Anyway, I personally think most people on this board would be at a level where what benefits them most as dreamteamers is information regarding a player's fitness, role change etc. At the moment I find it far more difficult going through a whole thread to find this stuff, as opposed to last year where I could just skim through the thread titles to find what I wanted.

I agree with the point about one word answers though, that's neither enjoyable to read or beneficial, and just promotes leaching.

 

[Saint KFC]

You keep mentioning that the objective of the board is to improve people as dreamteamers. What about those who are here to simply enjoy some dreamteam discussion, whether it improves them or not?

In my opinion, improving dreamteamers and providing enjoyable dreamteam discussion are not two mutually exclusive concepts. I for one know that I would rather intelligent discussion than I threads such as "Player X v Player Y" or "Rate my Team/10" but of course, this is subjective.

As for your comment of 'simply enjoying some dreamteam discussion', what do you mean by this? As I've already said, it's wholly subjective - I'm sure that some people don't like reading intelligent discussion. To that I say, what is forcing them? Does the player subforum, trade discussion, eliminator thread and gameday/scores thread not cater towards them? In my opinion, those aspects definitely are what I would classify as 'simple' discussion.

In my opinion the old setup was definately more entertaining.

Can you elaborate on what made it more entertaining?

Anyway, I personally think most people on this board would be at a level where what benefits them most as dreamteamers is information regarding a player's fitness, role change etc. At the moment I find it far more difficult going through a whole thread to find this stuff, as opposed to last year where I could just skim through the thread titles to find what I wanted.

But surely the player subforum acts in reducing this work? I mean, if all you're after is information on a player's fitness and role change, than you would have to be like a kid in a candy store upon entering the player subforum. I'm just not sure exactly what you're after, that's all. Is your problem that the board has become too uptight? You would probably have a case if that is your point, but I really have no viable solutions that wouldn't alienate one group over the other. After all, that is primarily an issue regarding the general demeanour of the board's participants, not a structural issue involving the board itself.

 

[LemmingMaster]

Personally, I feel the current system is the best way to access information and learn. The way the board is working is great for those looking to gain "expert" advice.
If you're looking for expert advice, you need a system in place that allows you to find the advice.

The NP group is not the be all and end all of expert advice and thoughts. I feel the current system has allowed certain posters to shine, during the offseason and the season in general.

Saint KFC is actually an example of a poster that provides great thoughts and concepts, he is not part of the NP group. If you go to the players board, Pumbi and Spartans have provided some great research into certain players.

Previous seasons it was a free for all on the main board, the level of advice was not there. It was hard to find a thread worth reading and often good threads that require thought were quickly washed to page 2, never to resurface again.

As for the suggestion for another subforum called My DT, Help my DT... I like the idea, I guess it is really up to the people high up to decide. (I've pushed for the conept at the same time as the players sub-forum)

 

[iamthestig]

NP is there to help those who want to help themselves. If you want to know the answer (or at least one person's version of the answer), without putting in the thought that goes behind it, NP is of no value to you.

The idea behind the No Passengers concept is to help people get better at DT and to help make BF a valuable DT resource. There will always be those who are not willing to think for themselves. These people are not seriously interested in getting better at the game, and whilst I can't speak for any of the other NP members, I have absolutely no interest in spoonfeeding my opinions to those who want a quick fix.

How can individual player threads be a bad thing? Many people asked for such a thing and the idea was discussed thoroughly among the moderators and some posters. It was decided that for all things 'Matthew Richardson' there should be a 'Matthew Richardson' thread; seems like a good idea to me if I wanted to look into Richo as an option. The thread would endure and become a resource. That is why the idea came to fruition. It was not to stop people making threads, just to stop 10 people making the same thread and distributing the resultant posts and opinions amongst them all, which would inevitably become buried under the next 10 threads.

To those that think that Dogs "is the worst thing to happen to BF", how about you pony up some ideas to make it better for all (note the difference to making it better SPECIFICALLY FOR YOU). BF is not here for you, it is here for everybody and if you don't like it, offer a solution rather than a whinge. Dogs might be the newest mod but this isn't his own personal empire. I know for a fact that he has many more things he could be doing, but he is here often BECAUSE HE WANTS TO BE in order to help BF run smoother and to genuinely help people with their DT efforts. That is a committment that not one of his detractors has so far been willing (or respected enough within BF) to match, so get the **** off his back.

 

[Sibbo]

In my opinion, improving dreamteamers and providing enjoyable dreamteam discussion are not two mutually exclusive concepts. I for one know that I would rather intelligent discussion than I threads such as "Player X v Player Y" or "Rate my Team/10" but of course, this is subjective.

Can you elaborate on what made it more entertaining?

I guess it is definitely subjective, but I don't mind seeing the odd whinge when a player goes down, and the 'sympathy' the poster receives when it is pointed out to them that an injury to their player was to be expected. I just find that general banter seems to have dropped off.

These days you constantly see people starting threads only to find the first half dozen replies are to the effect of 'don't start threads regarding individual players', 'I want to be a mod' etc. In the majority of these cases I find this even less enjoying to read than the original topic. Hopefully the player subforum can go some way to minimising this.

As for your comment of 'simply enjoying some dreamteam discussion', what do you mean by this? As I've already said, it's wholly subjective - I'm sure that some people don't like reading intelligent discussion. To that I say, what is forcing them? Does the player subforum, trade discussion, eliminator thread and gameday/scores thread not cater towards them? In my opinion, those aspects definitely are what I would classify as 'simple' discussion.

The same applies to those who don't want to read less in depth posts. Nothing is forcing them to read threads about individual teams for example, yet these threads all go down the path outlined above and are inevitably locked or merged. I guess the counter-argument here is that these threads clutter the board, but I find it much easier to find what I want when there is an individual thread for it, and not having to read through dozens of other posts.

But surely the player subforum acts in reducing this work? I mean, if all you're after is information on a player's fitness and role change, than you would have to be like a kid in a candy store upon entering the player subforum. I'm just not sure exactly what you're after, that's all.

I like the player subforum. But my original comment also applies to more broad things that could affect a player's performance, that perhaps wouldn't get a mention under a topic specifically about the player, particularly if they are not popular picks. This could include for example comments made by a coach regarding general teamplay, that require some degree of reading into.

Is your problem that the board has become too uptight? You would probably have a case if that is your point, but I really have no viable solutions that wouldn't alienate one group over the other. After all, that is primarily an issue regarding the general demeanour of the board's participants, not a structural issue involving the board itself.

I didn't notice this change until after the new rules regarding posting came into effect.


In short I just feel that hording everything together, while it may look more organised, actually makes it harder to find the stuff you need.

 

[Colin D'Cops]

I agree with this. The current setup is strangling the life out of this board. Was much more interesting last year.

I partly agree. Going through mountains of crapola to read a few good sentences isn't attractive from my perspective. Most would have remembered me by my tonnes of posts made for about one year straight, but since a few things have changed, I find it hard to comeback even a few times a week.

BUT, in saying that; this board was a whole lot worse a year and a half ago and beyond. A flood of threads were dedicated to a certain poster's own experiences, which obviously no-one really cared about so people were getting frustrated including myself. We needed to experiment, we got it a little better; now we're trying to increase that level yet again. Don't think it has gone to plan as yet, but with a bit more time it has the potential to improve. Not sure the casual DT'ers are getting a good look in on this board though, as they can't post rubbish threads on the main board and they can't even post a thread on the sub-forum. Perhaps as someone stated earlier, a SPAM based sub-forum might work. Let the casual DT'ers go nuts and talk all they like. At the moment, they're restricted. For the record; I don't hate the structure of the board nor overly love it, but it has improved rapidly so I definitely can't complain.

 

[Notorious_29]

as lakey91 was saying theres two very definitive groups of users on the forum. Those serious users who log on every day to discuss theories, injuries and startagies, etc, and those of the majority of the community who just log on to get an answer to a trading question or to seek information regarding NEWS of the day.

i think i sit on the fence in these two catagories, and both the old structure and the new structure have their pros and cons.

eveyone in this thread has brought up relevant issues and the mods are never going to be able to make everyone happy. So either way im not too fussed as i have found strengths and weaknesses in both, but if i have one issue, taking away the privelege for a user to make a thread is stupid.

 

[Kid A]

Not sure the casual DT'ers are getting a good look in on this board though, as they can't post rubbish threads on the main board and they can't even post a thread on the sub-forum. Perhaps as someone stated earlier, a SPAM based sub-forum might work. Let the casual DT'ers go nuts and talk all they like. At the moment, they're restricted.

There's vent threads for that. I don't understand what the attraction of being able to post short shallow threads is. I remember a year ago the whole DT board was A vs B and "Help my team" threads, these threads lasted 2 days and it was inconsistent at best whether you got any help. Sure it was fast paced but most threads looked like this:

TITLE: Help my team

Post 1: screenshot

Post 2: Go with Ellis

Post 3: No, go with Bowden

Post 4: OK What about my own team? (Screenshot)

etc.

Not helpful, and I'm not sure why a board with depth of discussion is seen to lack 'flavour'. It's not like you can't be slightly off-topic or include asides, and you can banter all you like in the Vent, Teams discussion and Round scores discussion threads.

Again, I don't see what the hubbub is and I'm yet to see any suggestions as to how you would improve things whilst still keeping an organised forum where people genuinely seeking to improve, can. Unless you think that DT improvement should be a lesser goal than sheer venting, I think the onus is on those who are unhappy to suggest a constructive solution.

 

[Colin D'Cops]

There's vent threads for that. I don't understand what the attraction of being able to post short shallow threads is..

Don't ask me what the attractions are. As I said, I'm content with the board how it is. Casual DT'ers like to make their thoughts well known and post threads; this has been said many times, by many people. Sure, there's vent threads; but I think posters want their thoughts a little more attractive & open to the public.

That's why I agreed with some poster's suggestion that a SPAM sub-board might be appropriate. Let the short, shallow threads do their own magic in their own board so the DT fanatics don't have to dig for constructive posts.

 

[Bond.ShaneBond]

This is all because only one group really gave their opinions in the "Future Board Structure" thread. There were hardly any casual users that posted, hence none of their ideas were heard.

 

[SkankDanker]

I'm with you, the DT board used be one of my favorites now i rarely visit. MODS are being way to anal with rules and regulations. It used be filled with 'NEW' and interesting topics, now it's the same old crap. 'Inury thread, Team Discussion, Captain Selection and Scores thread'.

No offense but 54dogs is the worst thing that happened to this board.

That is a ridiculous thing to say. Feedback was constantly sought from as many posters as possible. The ones who were prepared to put in the time to contribute ideas were heard. To blame the person who has put a huge amount of time and energy into this board over a long period of time is not just disrespectful to 54Dogs but causes other posters to lose respect for you.

This is all because only one group really gave their opinions in the "Future Board Structure" thread. There were hardly any casual users that posted, hence none of their ideas were heard.

As above Bond.Shane.Bond. People have the opportunity to provide feedback if they don't do it they don't get heard and they can't assume people will read their minds.

You have to try new things from time to time and this new structure is one of them. I think the player threads are fantastic

The problem now is that anyone who simply wants to leech information, not contribute, not learn, have someone else make their decisions and then try to gloat over a ranking achieved for them by someone else now has to find another place to spend their time.

Hang on did I say problem???

 

[Ben the Gooner]

I think the level of control is just so 54dogs is doing less work.

I understand the point that this thread is trying to make, but this is just blatantly wrong. 54Dogs has worked tirelessly since becoming a mod. Which is more difficult - leaving the boar das the free for all you propose or merging threads, locking threads etc.?

Think before you post.

Furthermore (not directed at you, JB), NP is not a bunch of experts paid by BF to help your Dream Team. They are a bunch of experts who give up their time to discuss the ideas behind DT.

I can't remember which NP member it was who quoted this in the afl.com.au article, but it's very valid: "Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he eats for a lifetime".

 

[Cartman121]

I understand the point that this thread is trying to make, but this is just blatantly wrong. 54Dogs has worked tirelessly since becoming a mod. Which is more difficult - leaving the boar das the free for all you propose or merging threads, locking threads etc.?

Think before you post.

Furthermore (not directed at you, JB), NP is not a bunch of experts paid by BF to help your Dream Team. They are a bunch of experts who give up their time to discuss the ideas behind DT.

I can't remember which NP member it was who quoted this in the afl.com.au article, but it's very valid: "Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he eats for a lifetime".

thebaxters.

 

[LemmingMaster]

thebaxters.

Poor baxters has used the wrong bait this year, the fish have stopped biting. I hope his hunger decreases in the second half of the year.

 

[stylz]

I agree with the guys who think the forum mods and forum set up has gone overboard. Last year i used to boot my pc and open firefox, first site i would search would be bigfooty. Id check the new forums and see what peoples opinions are on topics from the last time i logged on. It was good sifting through threads looking for interesting comments and opinions, occasionally finding a gem of information i was able to take on board. I can understand that the mods want to make these forums really user friendly and 'tidy'. But dont serve us everything on a silver platter, i actually enjoy sifting through the threads. The crappy threads would sink to the bottom with the interesting ones being on high rotation. Ok we need mods to keep everything 'managable' and not have absolute anarchy in regards to new threads every 2 minutes. But we need to cater for the 'general' dt'er and these types of people like to vent and voice their opinions, and often! Lets just say I think these forums have DEFINATELY taken a few steps back. In short. Hate the system.

 

[Kid A]

It was good sifting through threads looking for interesting comments and opinions, occasionally finding a gem of information i was able to take on board. I can understand that the mods want to make these forums really user friendly and 'tidy'. But dont serve us everything on a silver platter, i actually enjoy sifting through the threads. The crappy threads would sink to the bottom with the interesting ones being on high rotation. Ok we need mods to keep everything 'managable' and not have absolute anarchy in regards to new threads every 2 minutes. But we need to cater for the 'general' dt'er and these types of people like to vent and voice their opinions, and often! Lets just say I think these forums have DEFINATELY taken a few steps back. In short. Hate the system.

So basically you want less quality discussion and more random venting?

 

[stylz]

I wouldnt say i wanted random venting.. obviously there needs to be a system of policing new threads. However, I do not believe that the current situation of the boards is the correct way to have things. I mean 2007 and 2008 were much more interesting reads. I mean MUCH.

Its all about balance, and as it stands right now i think the balance is off.

 

[motorkerf]

the top 5 percent in the DT comp put in the hard yards.

the top 1 percent as simply obsessed.

they will be going to as many training gigs as they can. whether they have a player involved in DT or whether they are looking to the future.

it is no less than what a professional punter does.

finishing in top 50 places may be "rewarding" but no better than 10th.

to beat 270,000 other people your team needs to be special.

everything must fall your way.

you need to have made special trades which resulted from your original selections.

put simply your odds of winning this comp are roughly 1/250,000.

bitching about the board structure is a bit over the top for the follwing reason.

as why tell anyone that you dont know, what you do know from "pounding the beat".

professional punters do it ever day. they get up at 4am and go to th track and watch the horses train. they walk the track on race day. it is their living.

do your own "hard yards." think outside the square.

 

[motorkerf]

if you want it presented on a platter go to a seafood resteraunt.

 

[senrulzisback]

Do they have DT expert advice in seafood restaurant's these days?

Might check one out

 

[motorkerf]

only if sam fisher is playing.

 

[Rimmer]

'Spudrenko returns to save the annual backline meltdown!'

with compliments to the original poster The 30 Spartans.

This is a heading for a thread on Supercoach ... the type of heading we might have had here in the past. Something which grabs your attention, makes you laugh, demands that you read the post and thread and maybe make a contribution. Not something to be filed away under Patrenko for few to see.

Most of us are in Dreamteam and Supercoach ... if you don't find the balance between 'informative' and 'entertaining' people will stop posting here and maybe stop visiting here altogether.

Okay, i will get off my box on this one now and hope for the return of the 'entertaining' new posts to Dreamteam.

 

[flackjack]

Perhaps this could have been a poll. It would interesting to see which structure is preferred.

 

[Papa Juggs]

So everything anybody here had suggested has been shot down in flames??

There is still no action being taken to free up the trade discussion.

It is like 90% questions and 10% answers and it isn't going to go away.

C'MON MODS GIVE US A FREAKIN SIGN!!!