New Dream Team Board structure boring

[Papa Juggs]

I think I got my sign.

I've just been reading through the mid season trade history thread and the quality of posting there is amazing.

Very well done guys. I think I'm really starting to learn something now.

All the Hodge or Elllis? help me quick lol now stuff really isn't the way to go.

Keep up the good work 54dogs. I'm sorry for being a pain.

 

[bones25]

So everything anybody here had suggested has been shot down in flames??

There is still no action being taken to free up the trade discussion.

It is like 90% questions and 10% answers and it isn't going to go away.

C'MON MODS GIVE US A FREAKIN SIGN!!!

Problem is a big chunk of that 90% never acknowlege or say thank you to the 10% that do give suggestions.

 

[banana_bus]

'Spudrenko returns to save the annual backline meltdown!'

with compliments to the original poster The 30 Spartans.

This is a heading for a thread on Supercoach ... the type of heading we might have had here in the past. Something which grabs your attention, makes you laugh, demands that you read the post and thread and maybe make a contribution. Not something to be filed away under Patrenko for few to see.

Most of us are in Dreamteam and Supercoach ... if you don't find the balance between 'informative' and 'entertaining' people will stop posting here and maybe stop visiting here altogether.

Okay, i will get off my box on this one now and hope for the return of the 'entertaining' new posts to Dreamteam.

Excellent, less noobs on the DT board to leech off the rest of us who actually spend 5 minutes to read a thread and do research.

Good luck with SC. People like you wont be missed.

 

[stuart27]

Not sure where I stand on this tbh.

I think there have been some great improvements this year with how the board is structured (the 'Players' forum, for instance, although restricting who can post in it is just silly) so kudos to the powers that be for that.

That being said, it sh*ts me to tears to see someone start a thread and 4 or 5 people immediately pop up and say 'Not worthy of own thread, go to thread xxx' when the OP and board would have instead been better served by answering whatever the question was first and then merging the thread or letting it slip away into irrelevance.

The thing that's hard about this is that each year we're going to have a new audience in here, just taking up DT, who will assume the right to post on anything and everything. If a hard-line approach is taken, it's just going to end up being a re-education process year in, year out, and very little is going to change. If anything, it's going to make the forum a much less attractive place to visit.

I'd like to see some kind of compromise between tolerance for free-for-all posting, and being over-imposing. Like Rimmer said, I do enjoy seeing the occasional funny, light-on-content post on the board, but that doesn't mean I want them everywhere. Maybe giving new posts a few days grace, then merging them or losing them would be the best option. It may mean we need one or two more mods, but I'm sure plenty of people here would be willing to step up to the plate.

Also, a Spam or 'My Team' sub-forum could be good to lose some of the main board clutter, yet still cater for the changing audience of the board.

Just my thoughts.

 

[LemmingMaster]

I think there have been some great improvements this year with how the board is structured (the 'Players' forum, for instance, although restricting who can post in it is just silly) so kudos to the powers that be for that.

I think restricting who can create a new thread, has not really slowed down the process a heap, there is normally a mod or NP member online.

It was more a quality control issue, it will not be long until most DT related players have their own dedicated thread. At this point, the need to create a thread will be greatly reduced.

 

[chadleverington]

It was more a quality control issue, it will not be long until most DT related players have their own dedicated thread. At this point, the need to create a thread will be greatly reduced.

Except for the lead up to the draft

 

[stuart27]

I think restricting who can create a new thread, has not really slowed down the process a heap, there is normally a mod or NP member online.

It was more a quality control issue, it will not be long until most DT related players have their own dedicated thread. At this point, the need to create a thread will be greatly reduced.

Fair enough too, I suppose, I just don't like red tape

 

[magpies03]

Eyy Guys,

Ive been on this forum for quite a loong time now. Wasnt on it a whole lot last year byt didnt get off it in the 2007 year.

I still cant really decide wether its changed for the best, the worst or whether it needed any change at all. Back in 07 ppl created topics based on the first thing that popped into their head. As much as it got repetative (and correct me if im wrong) but i dont really remember anyone having a real problem with it. All the threads that ppl didnt want to talk about were gone by the end of the day anyway and the ones that created discussion were still there. I kinda agree that the forum has become a bit more anal. I think ppl are having to be careful about what they post alot more and when they create a thread which they genuinly want to know the answer about they get crusified for asking the question. At the end of the day forums are here to create discussion but also a place where ppl can come to get answers.

The pros to the new format are that there is alot more structure to the forum. You dont get the spam we got two years ago and the 500 "my team threads" and "what should i do with my team threads". This is good but it has created alot more bickering because ive seen a few threads created this year (perhaps by a total newb) who has come in seeking the answer to their question, they created a thread and been attacked by about 35 different heros. At the end of the day forums are suppose to be about sharing infor, discussing topics and getting answers to their questions.

IMHO i think 54 dogs had a vision on how the forum should be ran. I think his vision was a good idea but not necissarily executed the wrong way. I think this structure needed to be set up properly from the start for it to work and i dont think it necissarily was. There were a few good threads created e.g. "trade discussion" and "injury related" thread etc etc but there was nothing for thos random questions that ppl might want answers to. There were 4 or 5 main threads which was fine but i dont think the threads that were created to create discussion covered all the areas and topics. Also there was no direction as to what to do if u had a random question. A few ppl tried creatin threads but copped an earful from it imo not a very fair one at all.

I do alot of motor bike riding (mainly road bikes) and am part of a forum called net riders. Dont know if any of you are familiar with it but it is an awsome forum which runs really well. When you go into the forum there are about 30 different sub forums. Theres a newb forum for newbs. Repairs, sales, general discussion. Perhaps if the mods want more structure maybe they could look into this sort of set up. Have a newbs forum where the newbs cam go in and post a What should i do here question or a help me with my team question 500 times if they want. Then have a section for trades, player discussion, general discussion etc etc for the more expierienced dream teamers.

Just a thought and my 2 cents take it or leave it

In conclusion i think the forum either needs to be set up properly or leave it the way it always was. Just flowed through, alot less bickering and easy to use forum with great info and discussion. What ever happens tho dont crusify ppl for making new threads or maybe doing one thing wrong. Its a forum! Relax, enjoy it, discuss argue agree fight whatever about different topics but dont drain it and be all anal about what you can and cant do otherwise it will be left with about 12 members and that wont be any fun at all

 

[lifelike_]

I think people should to take into account that it's past the halfway point of the season as well.

From what I've seen so far, pre-season's generally a lot more n00b friendly. There are more questions that need to be asked and as a result posting activity is generally high, especially during the week before lockout.

As the year progresses the more experienced people start to climb up the rankings, while the less experienced who have good starts tend to slide down.

The trade threads start to slow down, as do the gameday and ranking threads, which explains the lack of posting activity as the season progresses.

I think the board's on the right track, but if there are still problems that need to be addressed by this time next year then some more may need to be done.

 

[LemmingMaster]

Just quickly, 54Dogs is just a mod, from what I know Deestroy and Kildonan are more senior to Dogs. So when something is implemented the directives come from higher than 54Dogs. I think placing all the blame/credit for the structure of the board should not be soley placed on his head.

The structure of the board may have swung to far towards the anal side of life, but you would have stuggled to find a thread being removed or merged in the last few weeks. This could be a combination of a number of factors, but I think the ability to make an interesting thread is still possible.

These threads are great, it allows a greater amount of communication between the different user groups. The current structure of the board is not necessarily the final product. I know there were many users that pushed for the Players board over a number of years.

 

[tonemeister]

We're only 12 weeks into the season and there's no doubt that there are a few things to be ironed out but the improvements to the board this year far outweigh any negatives. Its still a work in progress, we've only had the players sub forum for a few weeks and I think the mods and the NP guys should be cut some slack.

 

[Ausyid]

We're only 12 weeks into the season and there's no doubt that there are a few things to be ironed out but the improvements to the board this year far outweigh any negatives. Its still a work in progress, we've only had the players sub forum for a few weeks and I think the mods and the NP guys should be cut some slack.

Well said.

I've just read through this thread for the first time and whilst some of the arguments against the current structure have merit and are posted with the right intentions...the attitude being shown by many in here is unbeleivable.

Some people really want it all. They want to be able to run riot on this forum, whilst relying on the mods to clean up after them. They are not prepared to take a minute or two extra to actually find what they are looking for, they want it given to them on a plate instantly. It is ridiculous, and to be honest, if the current structure deters these types of people from coming on this board, then I see that as a positive thing and not a negative one.

The quality of the main board has increased beyond sight this season, with more in-depth discussion and much more thoughtful posting. People can still go ask for help with trades in the trade discussion thread, they just are asked not to clog up the board by creating their own thread, which is simply selfish and I can't possibly see how anyone could think that having a million threads for everyone's little questions is a good thing?

The player's board is fantastic. It allows for quick easy accessability to information and discussion on each player. The fact that each thread can't be started by just anyone has allowed for a more maintaned forum, and everytime a thread on a player has been requested it has been fulfilled.

I can guarentee you that if the board was a mess like in previous seasons, people would complain about it. You can't please everyone all the time, and at least this way the people that are pleased are the ones with value to add to the forum, and those that are displeased are generally the ones who want things given to them on a shiny silver platter.

 

[Zmithy]

Im a big fan of the players sub forum. I think that it has focused a lot of great discussion. Someone will post a well stuctured and informative comment and this has then (more than in the past anyway) prompted other people to follow on the good work and post another decent comment. Im finding that the threads are far more focused and like a lot of people are saying, its cutting out the pointless chit chat that can sometimes occur when we see people stray off topic and talk about a completely different topic in the end.

Im all for the new structure

 

[Mordecai]

The most I ever posted was when there was one thread. People had more of a "personality" in those threads.

 

[Beau_Waters for PM]

No doubt this will be moved to the string set up for this purpose and therein lies the problem I think you have with this new structure.

It will be moved into a long string lost somewhere on page 7 or page 17 where few if any people will read it. (for better or worse)

If you were around here the last two years then you would remember that for large majority of those seasons, we had a thread called "The AFL Dreamteam Thread". Basically 70% of all the forum discussion took place in there. During the early rounds, the thread would grow by 10-15 pages in a day! That was an utter nightmare - the present setup is a big improvement on that.

What is the alternative to the current "string" setup? If we go about limiting threads to less posts, then we will end up having multiple threads for each injury/issue/whatever. That might be managable in the short term, but what would it be like looking back after a couple of weeks to find the informaiton? Pretty hard I reckon.

 

[Colin D'Cops]

The most I ever posted was when there was one thread. People had more of a "personality" in those threads.

Like a Dream Team '07/'08 thread?

If that's what you're on about here Harro, I agree. I went crazy with posting when there weren't so many people intrigued with the concept at that time.

 

[Mordecai]

Like a Dream Team '07/'08 thread?

If that's what you're on about here Harro, I agree. I went crazy with posting when there weren't so many people intrigued with the concept at that time.

That's the one. I remember your name popping up a lot of the time too.

It was fun mixing the DT talk with the banter. Information is good, but only information is bad.

Remember Raw_Talent? - his demise was gold.

 

[Colin D'Cops]

Remember Raw_Talent? - his demise was gold.

Yep, bloody bullsh*t artist. It was RAW_TALENT, then DunnWellDone; now he's AustraliAfl or something like that. He actually plays WAFL Colts I think, Suckling from WA. Little midget some have said on the D&T Board.

 

[Kildonan]

Just quickly, 54Dogs is just a mod, from what I know Deestroy and Kildonan are more senior to Dogs. So when something is implemented the directives come from higher than 54Dogs. I think placing all the blame/credit for the structure of the board should not be soley placed on his head.

The structure of the board may have swung to far towards the anal side of life, but you would have stuggled to find a thread being removed or merged in the last few weeks. This could be a combination of a number of factors, but I think the ability to make an interesting thread is still possible.

These threads are great, it allows a greater amount of communication between the different user groups. The current structure of the board is not necessarily the final product. I know there were many users that pushed for the Players board over a number of years.

I want to reiterate that 54Dogs is doing what I believe to be a wonderful job in this forum.

Deestroy was the sole moderator for this board when it was first created. He has done a fantastic job over a long time with very little recognition or praise.

I came along after a while because it was something I was interested in and there was a fair increase in traffic here.

The potential for this board to grow is undeniable, and I have been active in trying to improve it the ways I felt were best. But I was not as active on the board as someone like 54Dogs and many other good DTers and other good posters.

I managed to get admin to restructure the Games board dividing it into DT and SC and other boards, then we added DT leagues boards and SC leagues boards to facilitate the competitions we hoped to create. I also had a hand in creating the BigFooty Dream Team League and Supercoach League competitions and later the BF Club Championships.

With help I found a number of good DTers who were also good contributory posters on the board and created the No Passengers group.

I set them up - but since then they have been largely self-governed. 54Dogs quickly stood out as a real quality member of the group and was made a Panellist of No Passengers and later we were able to convince him to take on the task of assisting moderating the boards. Such is his (and No Passengers) renown that they have been approached to contribute to the AFL prospectus next year.

I am the "Supermoderator" for this board because I have been active in trying to improve things. I am mindful of all suggestions and ideas to improve the board.

Believe me - I want to make it the best DT and SC resource on the net.

This post isn't about gaining recognition for the improvements made or bignoting myself. I do genuinely want to do what is best for the future of this board.

The No Passengers mindset of educating people to become better DTers was heavily encouraged by me. This helps bring an influx of new blood each year.

I take note that some posters don't like the structure that we have ATM. The structure is something that has been problematical right from the beginning.
BigFooty is a big board, as such there are limitations on how many sub branches we can create without slowing it down or causing some administrative nightmare (or so I have been told).

The players board has been a great innovation and I think we might create a questions and answers board for next season.

If you do have a brainstorm and come up with a solution to make the board better please post it or PM me or one of the other mods and we will look into it.

 

[Stubz]

'Spudrenko returns to save the annual backline meltdown!'

with compliments to the original poster The 30 Spartans.

This is a heading for a thread on Supercoach ... the type of heading we might have had here in the past. Something which grabs your attention, makes you laugh, demands that you read the post and thread and maybe make a contribution. Not something to be filed away under Patrenko for few to see.

Most of us are in Dreamteam and Supercoach ... if you don't find the balance between 'informative' and 'entertaining' people will stop posting here and maybe stop visiting here altogether.

Okay, i will get off my box on this one now and hope for the return of the 'entertaining' new posts to Dreamteam.

I acknowledge that the DT and SC boards are completely different and that is why I posted it in its own thread on the SC board. Its a kind of in-house SC board joke we have as a lot of people have been screwed over by Petrenko and therefore the combination of swine flu and him returning on a week not many would have had him as an emergency just about made everyone laugh.

For the DT board when I first heard about the news I just posted it under the Round 12 late changes thread, as we all know there are specific rules in place like that should not be broken.
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showpost.php?p=14788080&postcount=9
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=591012

I reckon the new rules have restored harmony and by and all are pretty fair and reasonable, not to mention they are stimulating more in-depth analysis rather than a comedy of threads, which is what I reckon most people want when coming on here. Rimmer mate if you are in-need humor trust me there are (generally) a lot more better places to get it from other than from BF. The SC board is probably a little more open and 'entertaining' I guess, but in saying this its main weakness is that the quality of discussion is not nearly as good as the DT boards.

 

[Teh_Nub]

I think the longer threads actually decrease discussion on a topic, your post may get 2 or 3 replies but there isn't generally more then that. If you have more threads on the front page, you can read what you want to read. If your reading a 10 page thread you have to read plenty of stuff that is completely unrelated to your interests.

 

[Lakey91]

Theres only really one thread like that mate, and thats the trades thread. I personally find all the others to be fine. Can you give a couple of examples of when/where you find this a problem? Thanks.

 

[Stubz]

Theres only really one thread like that mate, and thats the trades thread. I personally find all the others to be fine. Can you give a couple of examples of when/where you find this a problem? Thanks.

Lakey mate, do you reckon any of these alternatives would help deal with the board getting clogged issue?
1. Increase the number of threads viewable per page of board
2. Increase the number of posts viewable per thread
3. Allow for users to hide threads that don't interest them so they don't clutter that person's page

 

[thebaxters]

Lot of shots from the cheap seats here, and not many solutions being offered. I have no problem with expressing an opinion, but there are some thinly veiled swipes that are undeserved here. Particularly in the general direction of 54Dogs. Dogs isn't responsible for every decision that's being made, he's just the one with the Mod capability to introduce them. FWIW, he doesn't eat babies either.

Truth is, nobody likes change, and even moreso, even if we accept change, not everyone is going to like the changes made. What's done is done, and I'm not advocating it stay like this, but let's give it some time to see what parts we do think work, and what parts don't. The only constant in life is change, so it's not like we're "stuck" with the current format if everyone decides they hate it. But be nice in the interim; you can say your piece without getting personal.

 

[54Dogs]

Been reading this thread with interest over the past week or two and thanks for the CONSTRUCTIVE thoughts of those who have contributed (both for and against, great ideas). To those who have fired personal shots, please try and keep these out of the frame. You'll find that as you move through puberty and into adulthood the best way to get a result is to focus on the issue rather than the individual. If you are already adults I apologise, it didn't come across that way.

Firstly, to provide some quick context on where the changes have come from. Anyone on this board last season would vividly remember the amount of angst and bitterness at the general state of the board. Post after post asking for "more structure" and "why are crap threads clogging up this board". Emotion running riot, posters being yellow and red carded for cheap personal shots etc. Kildonan came to me in the off season asking for some help and I was happy to chip in. Certainly eyes wide open that it was not going to be a popularity contest, it never is when you implement change.

Stage one was to seek some feedback on the general consensus as to what would help the board function better. Ideas which came from this were structured threads on set topics (injuries, trades etc), weekend threads (game discussion, teams etc) and quality stickied threads with useful information. It was also a common request that pointless threads such as "I love Bartel" or "The official %#@* you Heath Shaw" thread should be chopped quickly.

Stage 2 was to implement these changes. We also stickied a DT RESOURCES and DT GOLDEN RULES thread created by No Passengers for all posters to use.

Stage 3 is where we are now, seeking feedback from the changes and continuing to review and amend, hence the recently opened Players Board.


ISSUES WITH THE BOARD CHANGES

As has been pointed out quite rightly I think the main issue has arisen because the posters who provided feedback were regular DT board users rather than casual users so the board structure was skewed heavily towards one group. Structure as it currently sits supports those who want serious, in depth discussion as opposed to quick one word answers. This board needs to support both so will continue to tweak and change until we get it close to right. Nowhere near that yet.

I think the one place that both groups collide is with some light hearted threads, everyone enjoys this side of the board and I'd love to see more back on the board. Threads such as this one are gold:

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=461558

This year we've seen a few, Hitlers DT and Alex's SFDT.

Certainly tough to get the balance right between light hearted and pointless and with posters now scared to open threads for fear of being attacked it's not helping. I apologise if the boards now to anal and we'll work on releasing the brakes a little to get it right. Outside of over 1000 post threads there has only been 1 closure in the first 3 pages of threads so there have been very few closures.


WHERE TO FROM NOW?

Any ideas from regular posters are absolutely welcomed but in particular we'd love to hear from some of the casual posters before they leave the board in the next month or so as to what the MAIN things are you would like or need on the board to get your answer quckly and easily and encourage you to come back. The restrictions we have ATM are:

1) No more Subforums
2) Limited number of stickied threads

Please let us know if you have ideas or the board will again skew in the direction of the serious poster but we'd love to support both.

Hopefully as off season approaches we'll tweak things again in the never ending battle to get it right as we're all in this together.