New Jersey unveiled today!

[adey115]

In relation to Kelly's AGM Statement, it may have been said before, but in relation to the 'if it ain't broke...' quote

What is most ludicrous about his statement, is that there are SOME things within the Lions admin and treating of its Members and that ARE broke. These items haven't been addressed. They have changed an item that clearly WASN'T BROKEN in many people's eyes, and popular opinion seems to be (ie. 85% polls) that they have in the process BROKEN IT.

So if he doesn't subscribe to the 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' theory, then why does he subscribe to the 'if it is broke, then hide it under the carpet and ignore questions in relation to it' theory?

 

[Scribe]

Thought it about time to throw my 2 cents worth in:

1. the new jumper is damn ugly.

2. the earlier arguments of Brunswick Street have some merit when considering that FFC is back as an active onfield entity. Naturally (and I daresay the Lions board probably harbour this sentiment to some extent) the re-introduction of a Fitzroy senior side in a football sense may indicate the Melbourne based Fitzroy/Brisbane people would be less fervent in their support of the Brisbane Lions than was previously the case. Still, I can't agree with him completely.

3. Brisbane's primary focus is to secure new memberships in the state of Qld, with the Gold Coast entering the VFL this season and working very hard to get a foothold (with lots of AFL support). That's where their battle for revenue and membership is fought by the current board. If you said to them they'd get 10,000 more Qld members and lose 3000 Melbourne based ones, I'd venture they'd accept that with open arms.

4. The court action (as I've been informed by those responsible for its instigation) is focused on the club changing the official logo. Merchandising and the jumper itself may not necessarily have to be changed, as long as the website/letterhead/official communications continue to have the Fitzroy Lion in perpetuity.

5. I disagree with BS that people are trying to have their cake and eat it too. This is possible to achieve in my view. You can support the FFC in the VAFA and also the Lions in the AFL as the continuation of the club at the elite level. No-one says you have to make a choice. In fact, you can also support the Fitzroy juniors in the YJDFL too!

6. the conduct of Bowers and the speech by Kelly indicate that they're both running scared. They know they've arrogantly arrived at an executive decision without proper consideration of the legal position (which I seriously doubt they even realised could be an issue). Accordingly, their reaction to the commencement of legal proceedings after consultation/input from 2 of Victoria's most senior QC's, is to denigrate those who have initiated action to keep the Board in check.

7. One hopes that the clubs can settle down and sort this out amicably (even the Supreme Court encourages mediation between parties) and out of the public eye in due course. Still, the point is being made, and I dare say the Board will eventually realise that it isn't necessary the decision which matters, its the manner or 'process' by which you arrive at that decision which really counts!

 

[whatboutbob]

Still, the point is being made, and I dare say the Board will eventually realise that it isn't necessary the decision which matters, its the manner or 'process' by which you arrive at that decision which realy counts!

Well, it seems they certainly haven't realised it yet. This was one of the Q&As at the AGM:

Q: With the benefit of hindsight, would the Board have done anything different with their approach to the change of the logo and jumper, or do you believe that the Board's approach has been flawless in this matter?

Kelly: No, we wouldn't have done anything different. We spent an inordinate amount of time over this issue. We gave it a lot of consideration, and hopefully with what I said in my statement, it addresses where this club needs to go to, and that concept that we need to broaden our appeal. We need to embrace a larger sector of the community than we do now. So the answer to your question is no.

 

[Reardo]

Well, it seems they certainly haven't realised it yet. This was one of the Q&As at the AGM:

Q: With the benefit of hindsight, would the Board have done anything different with their approach to the change of the logo and jumper, or do you believe that the Board's approach has been flawless in this matter?

Kelly: No, we wouldn't have done anything different. We spent an inordinate amount of time over this issue. We gave it a lot of consideration, and hopefully with what I said in my statement, it addresses where this club needs to go to, and that concept that we need to broaden our appeal. We need to embrace a larger sector of the community than we do now. So the answer to your question is no.

Proof that their grasp on reality is somewhat tenuous.

 

[whatboutbob]

Proof that their grasp on reality is somewhat tenuous.

Yeah, I still really can't get a read on if that is the case, or if they have just gone into ultra-defensive mode. Either way, it'll be damaging.

 

[Mr Ripper]

Thought it about time to throw my 2 cents worth in:

1. the new jumper is damn ugly.

2. the earlier arguments of Brunswick Street have some merit when considering that FFC is back as an active onfield entity. Naturally (and I daresay the Lions board probably harbour this sentiment to some extent) the re-introduction of a Fitzroy senior side in a football sense may indicate the Melbourne based Fitzroy/Brisbane people would be less fervent in their support of the Brisbane Lions than was previously the case. Still, I can't agree with him completely.

3. Brisbane's primary focus is to secure new memberships in the state of Qld, with the Gold Coast entering the VFL this season and working very hard to get a foothold (with lots of AFL support). That's where their battle for revenue and membership is fought by the current board. If you said to them they'd get 10,000 more Qld members and lose 3000 Melbourne based ones, I'd venture they'd accept that with open arms.

4. The court action (as I've been informed by those responsible for its instigation) is focused on the club changing the official logo. Merchandising and the jumper itself may not necessarily have to be changed, as long as the website/letterhead/official communications continue to have the Fitzroy Lion in perpetuity.

5. I disagree with BS that people are trying to have their cake and eat it too. This is possible to achieve in my view. You can support the FFC in the VAFA and also the Lions in the AFL as the continuation of the club at the elite level. No-one says you have to make a choice. In fact, you can also support the Fitzroy juniors in the YJDFL too!

6. the conduct of Bowers and the speech by Kelly indicate that they're both running scared. They know they've arrogantly arrived at an executive decision without proper consideration of the legal position (which I seriously doubt they even realised could be an issue). Accordingly, their reaction to the commencement of legal proceedings after consultation/input from 2 of Victoria's most senior QC's, is to denigrate those who have initiated action to keep the Board in check.

7. One hopes that the clubs can settle down and sort this out amicably (even the Supreme Court encourages mediation between parties) and out of the public eye in due course. Still, the point is being made, and I dare say the Board will eventually realise that it isn't necessary the decision which matters, its the manner or 'process' by which you arrive at that decision which really counts!

Top post.

 

[alscotoz]

Hi 1st post here , stumbled upon this thread yesterday. Cards on the table,...ex-Fitzroy who thought long and hard about following the Lions. No regrets that i chose to. I've never been on an AFL forum until the past week or so and when i googled the issue the first forum to come up was facebook, so i joined and followed the discussions about the logo. Waste of time. Tried putting forward the same arguments (perhaps not as articulately)as those here against what is going on, to no avail. Same childish retorts. 'If you don't like it you're not a true supporter' etc. Complete waste of time. I found the most disappoiting thing on that forum was the complete lack of empathy for how ex-Fitzroy supporters feel about this issue. This seems far from the case on this forum. However, this logo issue and the way it has come about is plain wrong.

The board and CEO arrogance through this saga has been breathtaking. If you take all the passion out of it (yes, i know it's not easy) and regardless of any court outcome (i too hope it doesn't come too that and mediation will be sought and be successful. However, I feel unless FFC back down this will go to court because Bowers has dug himself such a deep hole his ego won't let him backdown) my view is the CEO (and by extension the board) have acted dishonourably, arrogantly and ignorantly.

Perhaps they thought these changes would go through unchallenged. Maybe they question the level of passion among the support. Maybe they're just arseholes? Who knows? What i do know is this could have so easily been avoided if admin had been up front firstly with FFC, the other partner in the merger, and approached them with their idea/proposal. I would also hope FFC would have politely told them 'no thanks', we want to keep the Fitzroy Lion logo in perpetuity as stated in the agreement. I would imagine the Lions would have taken legal advice on 'logo in perpetuity and be told they had a case because if the interpretation is debatable what lawyer would knock them back.,,they still get paid, after all. Secondly, they could have gone to the membership first and said this is what we'd like to do, what do you think? Get some consensus and approached FFC with their members behind them (perhaps???) to strengthen their case.

They chose do do neither. They gave their merger partner and their membership the bird. They said 'f**k them, we know best, who the hell are these people anyway'. So regardless of my views on the logo (it's embarassing) the way in which the EMPLOYEES (of the membership) of the club have acted is unconscionable and unprofessional. I have no idea about the legalities of the agreement and which way any decision will fall but after all this, TBH i don't think i can be arsed (however, will have to be. see below). At this point i may get the jibes of 'you're not a true supporter' or 'you won't give a stuff about the guernsey when we win the Premiership in 2010' (don't think that will happen) or some such immature comment.

As has been said repeatedly elsewhere and I concur, i support the players and coaching staff and tradition and history. i didn't appoint Bowers or vote for the Board members. Bowers couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery. His record speaks for itself.

It's a shame because i have a 7 year old and 5 year old son. They're starting to get into the footy. My son wants his first Lions guernsey for Xmas and when i went to the club site and explained the 'mickey mouse' jumper was the new one for 2010. On the same page they had they real guernsey. He said to me, "Do you mind if i get the 'real' jersey the other one (new one) looks stupid'. 7 years old even he can see it. Was he one of the demographic the guernsey was supposed to appeal to?

The new guernsey has no sophistication. The new guernsey has no dignity. The new guernsey has no class. The new guernsey has no right to exist.

If the Lions do lose a lot of money because of this IT IS NOT FFC FAULT. An acceptable outcome for me would be losses are mitigated by having the new garbage used during 2010; the merger agreement is tightened up so the meaning of 'Fitzroy Lion' is never again disputed; and Bowers and anyone associated with his appointment or not questioning his processes and behaviour is shown the door.

Finally, it's a pleasure to read about footy from articulate and considered supporters. Al

 

[whatboutbob]

Nice first post. Welcome aboard. Don't let the club admin get the better of you. They'll be long gone when you're barracking for the lions in decades to come.

 

[LionKing]

Welcome to the Lions Board Alscotoz

 

[BuntonRules]

Nice first post. Welcome aboard. Don't let the club admin get the better of you. They'll be long gone when you're barracking for the lions in decades to come.

wot 'e sed

 

[alscotoz]

Of course, I'll still support the Lions and get to games in Melbourne with my sons when i can manage it. However, i will not be renewing my membership next year or buying my sons a junior membership or buying any merchandise with the new logo on it. Should save a few dollars, i would imagine?

Before anyone jumps down my throat about not being a 'true supporter' blah, blah, yawn i am quite comfortable being in the position of not paying to be treated with contempt; of not paying to be treated like i'm a piece of crap on the clubs (jack)boots. I'm content to join the ranks of the 'unwashed' (in the view of Bowers etc) and become an irrelevant person (non-member) who attends games and supports the boys and abuses the umpires and the opposition. A 'supporter' as opposed to a member, I suppose? Thing is i don't distinguish. If i see a guy at the footy supporting the guys i don't ask to see his membership card to establish his/her 'bona fides' as a 'true' follower of the club. Why? Because it's bullshit. there are many reasons supporters aren't members but in no way does it diminish their love/support for the club.

When Bowers (at the very least) goes, then I'm happy to get financial again. Until then i will NOT validate his or the boards existence by blindly giving my money away. MONEY...the only language this admin and the AFL understand. Deprive them of that oxygen for even a short time and heads will roll. Nothing surer. At some point continuing falling membership numbers has to bite and heads have to roll. Like it's been said before the AFL won't let the Lions disappear no more than they'd let Sydney go down. I've been a Lions Melbourne member for the last 9 years and have probably attended an average of 2 games per season in the past 6 years for various reasons. So anyone who chooses to lay a guilt trip on me about my decision are wasting their time. I am completely at ease with my choices and can't understand why people who feel passionately about the disgusting way the admin are behaving continue to fund their wages and validate their behaviour. Sorry, it doesn't make sense to me at all and never will.

Looking forward to being a card carrying brother again in the near future. Cheers. Al

 

[MacMum]

exactly how I feel

 

[CharlieM]

If I didn't barack for the Lions, I 'd think it was an AWFUL jumper.

Sadly I'm a member, and an embarrassed one at that. It just does not strike me as a good looking football jumper. It strikes me as a try-hard attempting to "jazz" up something that simply didn't need changing. It is just terrible.

Agree Adey, though I don't think it's terrible I just didn't realise the old jumper was broke?
Don't ever stop supporting your club though mate there are better ways to make a stand. Start by sending a letter and an email every day!

 

[adey115]

Alscotoz - best first post ever, and best second post ever.

I am exactly the same except without the two kids. Won't be financing the Lions directly until such time as they wise up. Was a member for about the same period.

I barrack for the Lions still. But if the Admin and Board are viewing Members as 'Customers', then I've slipped to being a 'Potential Customer', as they won't be getting my cash. I will only rejoin if the Guernsey changes back, OR if we need the votes to move on these people ruining OUR club.

 

[Dylan12]

It's a shame because i have a 7 year old and 5 year old son. They're starting to get into the footy. My son wants his first Lions guernsey for Xmas and when i went to the club site and explained the 'mickey mouse' jumper was the new one for 2010. On the same page they had they real guernsey. He said to me, "Do you mind if i get the 'real' jersey the other one (new one) looks stupid'. 7 years old even he can see it. Was he one of the demographic the guernsey was supposed to appeal to?

Welcome aboard, I had a similar experience re: the jumper. Was looking to buy my 4 or 5 year old nephew a jumper for Xmas and considering my sister is a lion who regrettably married a Magpie who has yet to convert his son, I got in early and thankfully there was still some real jumpers left at Rebel sports.

If the Lions do lose a lot of money because of this IT IS NOT FFC FAULT. An acceptable outcome for me would be losses are mitigated by having the new garbage used during 2010; the merger agreement is tightened up so the meaning of 'Fitzroy Lion' is never again disputed; and Bowers and anyone associated with his appointment or not questioning his processes and behaviour is shown the door.

I agree, I personally don't care if the Lions lose an inordinate amount of money over the next few years...hopefully it will result in those arrogant bastards, the board and their lap dog Bowers getting the arse. The AFL will not allow us to die, so I am not concerned, although I do appreciate this may impact on the players to some degree.

I just hope all Lions supporters/members boycott purchasing any of that new crap and with the loss of revenue from merchandise etc, it forces their hand to revert to what is the real jumper. I personally know first hand that many former players are equally distressed with the site of the new jumper, so I do not think for one moment that Browny and whichever current player "supports" the jumper in the press, actually feels that way privately.

 

[BuntonRules]

Alscotoz, it is apleasure to read your intelligent, articulate take on the current situation.

See the poll on the Superfooty website yesterday? Just on 4000 votes. 88% disapproval of the paddlepop lion. A huge response just before Xmas. And far more than a few disgruntled Fiyzroy supporters. More like proof that Bowers & co got it seriously wrong. Keep the pressure on them.

 

[Thommo 42]

Welcome aboard, I had a similar experience re: the jumper. Was looking to buy my 4 or 5 year old nephew a jumper for Xmas and considering my sister is a lion who regrettably married a Magpie who has yet to convert his son, I got in early and thankfully there was still some real jumpers left at Rebel sports.

who is this insane man? Please pass on hi details before it is too late!

 

[fitzroy_lions123]

ive been away from the net for about a month, and saw the new lions jumper on ST and i coud not believe my eyes.
the way they went about it, was a total disgrace to us ex fitzroy supporters and brisbane supporters who loved the 'fitzroy lion'.
everyone in my family, plus my relatives who all supported fitzroy before the merger hate that piece of S*** lion.
they put that bloody new lion head on our famous lion who everyone loves.
look the jumper itself is ok, but replacing the famous lion is disrespectful.
i know they wanted a modern lion for a new era, but changing the lion completely is not the right thing to do.
the best way to modernise the lion was to do what the detriot lions did.
now i wish that was our lion for next year and many more years to come.

 

[Lets Roar like '44]

Does anyone know the court date over the new Lion? Thought it was meant to be last week but obviously not.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Does anyone know the court date over the new Lion? Thought it was meant to be last week but obviously not.

Fitzroy lodged the affadavit last week. They didn't file an interlocutory claim (a claim demanding an immediate injunction) so it will all be nutted out in a court hearing at a later date.

Bowers said he expects it will be around June/July.

 

[Lets Roar like '44]

Fitzroy lodged the affadavit last week. They didn't file an interlocutory claim (a claim demanding an immediate injunction) so it will all be nutted out in a court hearing at a later date.

Bowers said he expects it will be around June/July.

Thats f***ed

Oh well brought my 2009 away jumper today online from the Lions shop, they can get stuffed if they think Im gonna spend $110 on the new one.

Be a pity if the Lions get the flag and years down the track when we watch the footage it will be in them wearing these jumpers.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Be a pity if the Lions get the flag and years down the track when we watch the footage it will be in them wearing these jumpers.

We'll just pass the hat around and pay for George Lucas to do a special edition DVD of the grand final with players in the classic jumper.

We'll even get Brent Staker replaced with Jar Jar Binks.

 

[stldizy]

We'll just pass the hat around and pay for George Lucas to do a special edition DVD of the grand final with players in the classic jumper.

We'll even get Brent Staker replaced with Jar Jar Binks.

Daniel Rich as Luke Skywalker, Jonathan Brown as Han Solo, Travis Johnstone as Chewbacca, Xavier Clarke as Orlando Calrissian and a special appearance, Leigh Matthews as Obi Wan Kenobi.









A long time ago at draft, many, many months ago...





It was the trade of the century, Brendan Fevola, officially a Lion.
In result Michael Rischitelli stayed but Daniel Bradshaw left the
Lions after being offered as trade bait. He was not the only one
to move on to another club. As apart of the Fevola deal, young
Lachlan Henderson went to Carlton.
In the same draft the Lions also picked up injury ridden Saint,
Matt "Goose" Maguire as a surprise pick. Other players drafted to
The Lions where Callum Bartlett, Ryan Harwood, Jesse O'Brien and
Bryce Retzlaff.

Not long after the NAB Draft came the Rookie Draft, more young
Jedi Apprentices to join the Lions. Mitchell Golby, Josh Dyson,
Sean Yoshiura, Claye Beams,Broc McCauley and from a galaxy far,
far away, Niall McKeever.


The force is strong with these men.

 

[adey115]

Fitzroy lodged the affadavit last week. They didn't file an interlocutory claim (a claim demanding an immediate injunction) so it will all be nutted out in a court hearing at a later date.

Bowers said he expects it will be around June/July.

Can that be interpreted as somewhat of a conciliatory act by the FFC in order to push towards mediation?

One would think that if they wanted to financially upset the BL, they'd push for an immediate cease in the use of the logo. Perhaps instead because of the financial difficulties that the BL might face from a logo/jumper change, they realise that because it isn't in the best financial interests of the BL to change back within a 1-2 year period the FFC is more interested in time taking its course and hope for discussions outside of court.

Or maybe that's just Rose-Roy coloured glasses. Maybe the FFC did their claim this way because it will give the Roys less legal costs....

 

[whatboutbob]

Can that be interpreted as somewhat of a conciliatory act by the FFC in order to push towards mediation?

One would think that if they wanted to financially upset the BL, they'd push for an immediate cease in the use of the logo. Perhaps instead because of the financial difficulties that the BL might face from a logo/jumper change, they realise that because it isn't in the best financial interests of the BL to change back within a 1-2 year period the FFC is more interested in time taking its course and hope for discussions outside of court.

Or maybe that's just Rose-Roy coloured glasses. Maybe the FFC did their claim this way because it will give the Roys less legal costs....

It could be taken both ways.

My understanding is that if FFC had won the interlocutory claim, and then ultimately lost, then they could well have been liable for millions.

On the other hand, Fitzroy have said all along that they're not looking to damage the Lions - they just want a clarification and Brisbane wouldn't come to the table.

Personally I believe it is the latter. I'd be far from surprised if Bowers believed it to be the former.