New Jersey unveiled today!

[Brisroy Fitzbane]

yeh.. i have to admit.. that post came out of nowhere. Seemed defensive.

You may be right, I may be crazy...

 

[adey115]

Strawberries or chocolate? Paddle pop lion? Meddling anonomous online polls with no interests in the good of the club?
Wow it's good to know we have so many marketing experts fighting the good fight. How about some answers on how to help the lions? I propose we have the letters FFC on the front of the jumper and the side on fitzroy lion as the logo. After all it worked so well for Fitzroy.
Give me a break. Does anyone notice that doing nothing was not working? I feel for Bowers, Damned if he does Damned if he doesn't.
Merry Christmas everyone. Go Lions!

I'm not one for bagging the people who do like the new jumper, or who do think it's a good idea to change it, just because that's the way they feel.

However I'd like to discuss your post....
The Online Polls - allowing for a certain percentage of anti-Lions voting for the hell of it, 85% plus percent is simply damning. You can't vote twice from the same PC. So allow for some false voting, and even if it was say 70% plus - to me that is a vast majority... anonymous or not.

And "no interest in the Club" is an interesting comment. If the Club is interested in increasing memberships, or even increasing non-member fans (although they've shown a tendency to view those sort of people as akin to pond scum), or even increasing corporate interest in the Club (potential sponsors, corporate entertainment bookers etc), then surely people who take the time to vote on whether or not they like the Guernsey IS actually of interest to the Club?

"How about some answers to help the Club?" Well, there have been quite a few displayed on these boards over the past few months. But I don't think changing the Guernsey was one of that was high on our list - but if that simply MUST happen, 100% marketable alternatives have also been provided here. The one that Bunton Rules uses as his avatar tickled my personal fancy. I would have bought it. And I also wouldn't have cancelled my membership if we'd gone with it. So there is a Membership and a Merch purchase or two that the club have missed out on from me, and I'd suggest I'm not the only one.

If the Club wanted a true spike in Merchandise then consultation on this issue with Fans and Members would have been a great free marketing tool for the lead in to the Xmas sales period, because of the interaction with the Club's existing core "clients". Personally I think if that consultation had happened, and we'd ended up with the modernised version of the now traditional BL guernsey for our Merch, then sales would have been much higher than what we may be experiencing with the current new stuff. I don't think the Club will release the info on current Merch sales though.

Your FFC proposal is way out of left field. I don't think their are a vast majority of even Melb based fans who'd think that would be a long term idea (as the home guernsey) for our merged club. If the Club truly thinks that is the case, then they are way out of touch. So I assume that one was a little facetious on your behalf - but reality is I don't think that even old Roys have those expectations.

And finally...
"Does anyone notice that doing nothing was not working?"
There were plenty of things that weren't working. But why throw out one element that we were truly proud of, that WAS working. How many people used to say that the Lions color and design on the jumper was the best in the league (outside of their own club of course)?

There were Administration issues that simply weren't working. Initiatives to increase patronage at the Gabba during lean years. Active lobbying by the Club to get an even spread of Melb games, or make sure the Melb games were there in numbers rather than reducing - and by that I mean even token public lobbying, so it appeared like they cared about that issue. Making the Melb membership cost effective - the main reason why Melb memberships aren't working is because it is simply much cheaper to buy tickets over the counter for individual games, rather than buy a membership. Following up with ex-Members. Building up a database of patrons attending games at the Gabba but not yet members and offering them a big incentive to get on board - how about 30% plus off your first year's membership?? Decrease your profit on year one knowing that once they're in, a large proportion of them will be hooked?? The AFL needs the BL to survive, so they might even co-fund such an initiative if it meant a potential of turning first time members into long term disciples?

'Nothing was working', because items that were 'broke' or not perfect, weren't addressed aggressively. So why change what was working perfectly well is my question?!?

And finally - some have accused you of potentially being someone from the Club. Maybe or maybe not. But I do find it unusual that every piece of correspondence from the Club nowadays finishes off with the slogan "Go Lions!" including the exclamation mark. That's a pretty common thing to say I guess. But it might be without coincidence that your message ends with that as well.

Or maybe I am just cynical about everything the Lions Admin team are up to at the moment.

 

[Tassie4ever]

Re" adey115's comments above.

As as relocatee from southern climes, but a long-term Brisbane inhabitant, I think it's important to retain a sense of perspective about the sporting environment for AFL in Queensland.

The simple fact is, AFL is still very much a secondary code in this State. You only have to look at recent backpage headlines about the state of Lockyer's bum, or whether so and so can be enticed to play another year of State of Origin, to know just where we are here.

A lot of locals jumped on the Lions' waggon during the 3peat- extraordinary times, never to be repeated. The membership drop-off rate since 2003 has been big, and, realistically, only to be expected. The whole AFL draft is structured so as not to allow ongoing success- unlike NRL which doesn't have a draft and is dominant in a very small 1.5 state gene pool. We know this. If the Broncos talent spotters were good enough, they should never be losing as they have access to a whole State with limited competition.

This is not to say that AFL hasn't come a long way since the 70's when I used to trudge out to Chelmer of a Sunday to get the footy fix. Just look around to appreciate just how far we've progressed- at the Gabba one of the best boutique stadiums, wall-to-wall TV coverage from one end of the country to the other,etc etc. Let's face it, long-term NRL hasn't a hope against this competition.

Nevertheless, IMHO, the Lion's management is clearly mindful of the fact that it needs to expand the potential membership pool beyond us diehards who contribute to BigFooty, and rightly so. Like any good management, the Lions team needs to be thinking 10 years out. The proof will be in the pudding.

Personally, I think the whole Lions head design is woeful, but to me it's not a game clincher. It's more the type of bloke IN the jumper that's critical to me.

 

[Hardcore Lion]

Can't we all just get along? At the risk of creating a preverbial sh!t storm.
Couple of points.

1. I am in no way affiliated with the club, not even a member although I am looking at joining next year hopfully. I am just a lifelong Lions fan and followed the Lions when they merged with brisbane. I ignorently assumed the creativity of some peoples theories on this board didn't extend to wild baseless conspiricy theories too. My bad I guess for supporting the club with the Go Lions comment. It doesn't take much does it?

2. I noticed on page 33 on this forum someone else with a vastly different point of view also had their very first post. What followed was "Welcome aboard" and "best first post ever". Now I post a different opinion and am told to pull my head in and scout the board before posting? Not that its anyone's business but I have been doing just that and watching the the forum for months but I noticed it was very one sided and wanted to put forth a fresh opinion on the issue. Also I noticed that a few richmond, collingwood supports among others have been signing you lil petition on the internet and I hope that is not who the Lions admin are trying to sway into liking the Lions as I doubt anyone would switch teams because they like a logo, but possibly they could be the same fickle supporters who leave supporting a club because of a logo and because we all like a good assumtion let's just assume that the percentage of opposition supporters that would actually take the time to seek out and sign a token petition to unsettle the club and then find out the best board to come and brag about it would have to be the vast mnority. So I then give that very little to no credibility.

3. In my humble opinion I like the new logo better but prefer the old jumper. Not that I dispise the new jumper, I don't feel it's the abomination that your making it out to be. And I should not be crucified for these views.

4. Brisbane Lions is my ONLY team! No NRL, NFL, NHL, A League or any other sporting code so all my time and energy is applied to watching, suppoting and researching the brisbane lions, I love this team.

 

[adey115]

Can't we all just get along? At the risk of creating a preverbial sh!t storm.
Couple of points.

1. I am in no way affiliated with the club, not even a member although I am looking at joining next year hopfully. I am just a lifelong Lions fan and followed the Lions when they merged with brisbane. I ignorently assumed the creativity of some peoples theories on this board didn't extend to wild baseless conspiricy theories too. My bad I guess for supporting the club with the Go Lions comment. It doesn't take much does it?

2. I noticed on page 33 on this forum someone else with a vastly different point of view also had their very first post. What followed was "Welcome aboard" and "best first post ever". Now I post a different opinion and am told to pull my head in and scout the board before posting? Not that its anyone's business but I have been doing just that and watching the the forum for months but I noticed it was very one sided and wanted to put forth a fresh opinion on the issue. Also I noticed that a few richmond, collingwood supports among others have been signing you lil petition on the internet and I hope that is not who the Lions admin are trying to sway into liking the Lions as I doubt anyone would switch teams because they like a logo, but possibly they could be the same fickle supporters who leave supporting a club because of a logo and because we all like a good assumtion let's just assume that the percentage of opposition supporters that would actually take the time to seek out and sign a token petition to unsettle the club and then find out the best board to come and brag about it would have to be the vast mnority. So I then give that very little to no credibility.

3. In my humble opinion I like the new logo better but prefer the old jumper. Not that I dispise the new jumper, I don't feel it's the abomination that your making it out to be. And I should not be crucified for these views.

4. Brisbane Lions is my ONLY team! No NRL, NFL, NHL, A League or any other sporting code so all my time and energy is applied to watching, suppoting and researching the brisbane lions, I love this team.

Point taken Hardcore. If you're not a Lions Admin person then so be it.

It's not only about the 'little' petition. You mentioned public polls in your last post, but have now switched to the petition issue. The SOL petition must be about 3,000 strong by now. Take out even a third of that, and you're still talking about a significant portion of BL fans/members. Put it this way - I'm yet to see enough people moved to do a petition that supports the new jumper and logo. With a 26,000 membership tally, the SOL, even if only 2,000 are "genuine" is a significant proportion of upset people.

You said in your post - "how about some answers?" Many have been provided in these forums, along with a lot of upset "whinging" if you like. So it appeared like you hadn't read them. The answers are all over these forums. The other guy got a "best first post" from me because I agreed with what he said. Can't say you've been crucified because of your opinion on the jumper or logo.

I note you're a non-member. Can I ask - did you read the press releases from the Club at the time? They seemed very condescending with regard to non-Members. The Board that you're supporting doesn't seem to rate non-Members. Which is part of the angst.

 

[adey115]

Re" adey115's comments above.

Nevertheless, IMHO, the Lion's management is clearly mindful of the fact that it needs to expand the potential membership pool beyond us diehards who contribute to BigFooty, and rightly so. Like any good management, the Lions team needs to be thinking 10 years out. The proof will be in the pudding.

I can't disagree with that paragraph Tassie. But still doesn't explain to me the jumper change. I can not see how it will expand the potential membership base. Other initiatives perhaps, but not a jumper change - especially to a jumper that has copped a public caning.

 

[Brisroy Fitzbane]

yes fair enough 'hardcore lion' – just seemed to come out of the blue is all.
Not to worry, that's why I signed off with my B.Joel reference. Go Yankees!

 

[weevil]

2. I noticed on page 33 on this forum someone else with a vastly different point of view also had their very first post. What followed was "Welcome aboard" and "best first post ever". Now I post a different opinion and am told to pull my head in and scout the board before posting?

Just a question, did the post you are talking about cast aspersions on fellow Lions supporters?

 

[tate13]

Can't stand the new jumpers at all, the old design was probably the best in the league. As for the logo I feel it needed an update, but again I'm not a fan.
Having said this, it's now been a few weeks since the announcement and I no longer have the will to care, as long as they win games I couldn't care less if they ran around in potato sacks at this point.

 

[Brisroy Fitzbane]

Just wait until next year when they run out in those new potato sacks. Brr.

 

[mickeyblueeyes37]

Seeing the jumper up close gee the lions huge looks weird on sale now at rbel sport bourke st Melbourne

 

[Judge]

Seeing the jumper up close gee the lions huge looks weird on sale now at rbel sport bourke st Melbourne

Well, seeing the new jumper on my 7 year old son yesterday morning (and all day) didn't look too bad, to be honest, and he has AAPT and Vodafone versions of the old one. He desperately wanted the new jumper because that's what his idols will be wearing next year, and I daresay most kids, and alot of adults, will feel the same.

Personally, I wouldn't have changed the jumper and agree that it has been a divisive move, but I suspect that in the long term the club's prosperity won't be affected to any great degree by the change, one way or the other. Same with the logo, which has never appeared on the jumper anyway.

I can sympathise (if not empathise) with the diehard FFC followers who support the BLFC, but I struggle to identify with the interests of the FFC itself given that (as I understand it ) the majority of its members (such as its President) don't support the BLFC.

I don't need Roylion to explain that technically the FFC is a "merger partner" of the BLFC, but if they don't have the interests of the BLFC at heart what exactly are they fighting to protect and why? Taking the President as an example, who apparently is a Carlton supporter, why should we care about his feelings over the jumper/logo change (as opposed to Roylion et al who do have a vested interest in the matter)?

I'll now leave the arguing and analysis to others, and good luck to members of both camps, and look forward to seeing the boys running around in 2 months regardless of what they're wearing on their backs.

 

[BuntonRules]

Wow, what a stupid email u sent to Michael Bowers...!

Mate, I am not a lawyer or journalist, just a working man concerned for the future of my footy club. I, like many others had emailed/contacted the club through this little saga. I, like many others, recieved flippant, condescending and smug formula replies only. So I thought maybe a bit of sarcasm may provoke a genuine reply. And not to hide behind a keyboard I supplied real world contact details.

Because what I said is genuine. It took my mates about 5 minutes to work out how to wind me up over this design. How long do you reckon it will be before it is common place. How many episodes of the Footy Show before Trevor Marmalade asks Browny the same question? And any group of footy supporters consulted about that design would have seen the potential for denigration instantly.

Personally, I can see how our old jumper was a tad 1950's in design and could benifit from refreshing. Mayhap Michael Bowers & crew had the right idea, but they went about it in exactly the wrong way. A footy club's jumper is like a nation's flag - the true symbol of allegience. And no-one just changes it unilaterally, just because they know best. It is only changed after much consultation and general support of the final result.

The design I use as my avatar I personally love. If this was the final result I would have raced out and bought 2. And had it tattooed on my chest next to the old lion. I apologise for misappropriating it without acknowlegement but I forget where I found it.



Hardcore Lion. In response to your criticism, I stopped taking it seriously as soon as you stated you were not a member but "may next year". The entire saga is about the club's survival. The club needs - above all - members to survive. Even if you , like me,cannot attend a game Lions Supporter membership costs $62 a year. $1.20 a week. All you get is the feeling of contributing, and dismissive emails from managment if you dare query them. And yearbooks and newsletters and stuff.But it is worth it. Put your money where your mouth is. Please do not take this as a snide comment, but a genuine call for supporters to stand up and join.

I thank Quigley & particularly Adey115 for their thoughts, putting what is my view far more eloquently than I could. Some of the strategy's outlined by Adey115 would, IMO, work well in increasing our membership. The current strategy of the club is, again IMO, the easy way out. As in politics it shows the lack of imagination and arrogance of a tired administration. Perhaps it is time for new blood.

As I stated at the beginning, all of my posts and actions are motivated by concern for the future of my club and if I offend anyone I apologise.

 

[Stocka]

Well, seeing the new jumper on my 7 year old son yesterday morning (and all day) didn't look too bad, to be honest, and he has AAPT and Vodafone versions of the old one. He desperately wanted the new jumper because that's what his idols will be wearing next year, and I daresay most kids, and alot of adults, will feel the same.

Kids may possibly have a greater acceptance of the new jumper than adults, although I do know quite a few junior Lions supporters who hate the jumper, so, I'm not so sure that it will be as much of a unilateral junior acceptance as some make out.

Personally, I wouldn't have changed the jumper and agree that it has been a divisive move, but I suspect that in the long term the club's prosperity won't be affected to any great degree by the change, one way or the other.

If there is a drop off in membership in Victoria I'd suggest that this would negatively impact upon the club long-term.

Same with the logo, which has never appeared on the jumper anyway.

The Fitzroy Lion has always appeared in the logo and on the jumper.

I can sympathise (if not empathise) with the diehard FFC followers who support the BLFC, but I struggle to identify with the interests of the FFC itself given that (as I understand it ) the majority of its members (such as its President) don't support the BLFC.

Since the merger, I have been a member of both FFC and BL. I know quite a few others who have supported both "parties" since the merger. I'd suggest that support is more bi-partisan than hostile (as some like to make out).

I don't need Roylion to explain that technically the FFC is a "merger partner" of the BLFC, but if they don't have the interests of the BLFC at heart what exactly are they fighting to protect and why?

Who is to say that they don't have the interests of the Lions at heart? Their voice represents the interests of those Fitzroy supporters who support the club, such as myself, in upholding the merger agreement.

It's not as if the FFC board has a 13-year history of antagonising BL, after all. Apart from the heave-hoeing of the first two or so years after the merger, this is the first real issue where the FFC have challenged BL in a serious manner.

Likewise, FFC have often made statements to the effect that they're supportive of BL's efforts to represent the Fitzroy identity at AFL level.

In an official statement (which can be found of the FFC website), the words used to describe their stance on the current issue were as follows:

First and foremost, our position is a united one on behalf of our members and all those from the Lions family who have called and emailed, asking us to take a stance for our proud tradition.

It think it's pretty clear where the FFC are coming from and suggestions to the contrary with red-herrings such as questioning the support of the president are merely mischievous aspersions.

Taking the President as an example, who apparently is a Carlton supporter, why should we care about his feelings over the jumper/logo change (as opposed to Roylion et al who do have a vested interest in the matter)?

The Fitzroy president represents the interests of Fitzroy supporters and members and this includes endevouring to ensure that the merger agreement is honoured by the AFL and BL.

As I understand it, Craig Little became the president of FFC when the FFC merged the "Reds" (formally the University Reds), upon which time, the two boards merged. The merger agreement required some of the Fitzroy board members to resign and be replaced by some members of the board from the "Reds". Therefore, Craig Little became the president of the new club as one of the office-bearers for 2010. It is also worth keeping in mind that Craig Little is merely one person representing the FFC, and that the other board members are indeed long-time Fitzroy (and many of them in fact Brisbane Lions) supporters and members (such as Elaine Findlay, Bill Atherton, Tom Seargeant, Lou Soligo and Sharon Torney as well as Dyson Hore-Lacy who only recently stepped down from the board). It is not as if Craig Little is acting under his own steam or not part of a body that represents the interests of Fitzroy supporters and members and the upholding of the merger agreement.

 

[whatboutbob]

The design I use as my avatar I personally love. If this was the final result I would have raced out and bought 2. And had it tattooed on my chest next to the old lion. I apologise for misappropriating it without acknowlegement but I forget where I found it.

I merged the Costa Sports Logos logo with the official new design. I don't care about acknowledgement for my bad photoshop job, but given I didn't ask permission to use the logo (eep) I'd appreciate it if you acknowledged the logo designer if/when asked (not that you ever will be).

 

[Judge]

If there is a drop off in membership in Victoria I'd suggest that this would negatively impact upon the club long-term.

The Fitzroy Lion has always appeared in the logo and on the jumper.




It think it's pretty clear where the FFC are coming from and suggestions to the contrary with red-herrings such as questioning the support of the president are merely mischievous aspersions.


.

Stocka, in answer to some of your points:

• I would rather keep our existing members in Victoria and foster further support there, but I am not sure that the current BLFC administration would be too worried if new memberships in Qld outstripped membership losses in Victoria over the medium term-perhaps that's their plan;

• The BLFC logo has never appeared on the club jumper as far as I can recall;

• I repect your views and sincerity, but I'm not trying to be "mischievous". FFC board members and supporters can follow any AFL team they like, but if they don't follow the Brisbane Lions don't expect me to care too much for their feelings on the logo/jumper issue (as opposed to yours, for example).

 

[Stocka]

Stocka, in answer to some of your points:

• I would rather keep our existing members in Victoria and foster further support there, but I am not sure that the current BLFC administration would be too worried if new memberships in Qld outstripped membership losses in Victoria over the medium term-perhaps that's their plan;

Yeah, I get that impression as well. I sort of wonder if the current board/administration see the Victorian connection of the club as being problematic and feel that it's something that they want to pare back on over the medium-term in order to make the job of running the club, in particular decisions like the one about the logo/jumper, easier for the decision-makers.

It will be very disappointing for people like myself if that is the case. I still have a lot of football-supporting years ahead of me and would very much like to support the Brisbane Lion passionately in all of those years ahead, but feel that I can only do so if the merger agreement and the spirit of the merger are honoured accordingly. I think there are others who feel similarly to myself.

• The BLFC logo has never appeared on the club jumper as far as I can recall;

I take it you are meaning the logo in its entirety (with the shield/oval and words)?

I am referring specifically to the aspect of the Fitzroy Lion.

• I repect your views and sincerity, but I'm not trying to be "mischievous". FFC board members and supporters can follow any AFL team they like, but if they don't follow the Brisbane Lions don't expect me to care too much for their feelings on the logo/jumper issue (as opposed to yours, for example).

Yeah I guess I just see the fact of Craig Little being a Carlton supporter as a bit of a red-herring, considering that he is only one member of the merged board which still has many long-term Fitzroy and Lions supporters and members on it. Essentially he is just the spokesperson who fronts up the views of the overall board in public manner and the board essentially represent the interests of Fitzroy supporters, including those who support the Lions, as evidenced by their stance on the logo/jumper issue as contextualised by the merger agreement.

Now, if Craig Little had come out and said that Fitzroy supporters should abandon their support of Brisbane and look to Victorian clubs, such as Carlton, then you'd have a point, but I don't think there's any such reality of a conflict of interest or malicious intent towards BL.

 

[Bobby Beecroft]

Who is to say that they don't have the interests of the Lions at heart? Their voice represents the interests of some those Fitzroy supporters who support the club, such as myself, in upholding the merger agreement.

Changed for accuracy............ as it is only some.

I was with a dozen such people on Christmas Day & it was unanimous, that the we are not offended that logo/jumper lions has been changed. In fact it was the other way we are continually annoyed by the assumption that the FFC represents all of us. This is just not the case & I wish people, the media, & even posters could start seeing this, and heaven forbid respect this.

Just because those that have accepted the change don't get here & post, don't phone SEN, & don't email the club doesn't mean they don't exist. In fact it's got to the stage where some here that have been posted are now being accused on working for the club, just ridiculous & slightly paranoid.

New posters the other way are greeted with open arms, & the treatment of some is now becoming a little hypocritical. If the shoe was on then other foot, I just wonder what would have happened to the accusers? Some respect for all opinions would be nice, rather than the witch hunt that has started to rear its ugly head.

 

[Haggis McHaggis]

Changed for accuracy............ as it is only some.

I was with a dozen such people on Christmas Day & it was unanimous, that the we are not offended that logo/jumper lions has been changed. In fact it was the other way we are continually annoyed by the assumption that the FFC represents all of us. This is just not the case & I wish people, the media, & even posters could start seeing this, and heaven forbid respect this.

Just because those that have accepted the change don't get here & post, don't phone SEN, & don't email the club doesn't mean they don't exist. In fact it's got to the stage where some here that have been posted are now being accused on working for the club, just ridiculous & slightly paranoid.

New posters the other way are greeted with open arms, & the treatment of some is now becoming a little hypocritical. If the shoe was on then other foot, I just wonder what would have happened to the accusers? Some respect for all opinions would be nice, rather than the witch hunt that has started to rear its ugly head.

Just a tad on the sensationalist side there. I wouldn't say there's been a 'witch hunt', but as with any debate there will be the extremities on both sides that push things to limits that most in more moderate positions will cringe at.

I don't think there's an assumption that the FFC represent everyone that ever followed the club in its AFL days. If anything, that's a misrepresentation made by the media more than anywhere else as they, despite constant correction being offered, love to print the 'Fitzroy faithful furious with Brisbane' type shit. It's important to note that the FFC did not act until it had been contacted by Brisbane & Melbourne based members that wanted them to hold the BBFFC admin to account on the logo as it is the only real mechanism that was available to challenge an aggressive, secretive move by the club.

Where you get annoyed with the assumption you're on board against the logo because you're a Vic member, I get annoyed at the assumption I don't give a shit because I'm a QLD member. Either way, it's important that we continue a reasonable debate on both sides and pull up those over the top, and correct false information where we see it. Honestly though, I don't think it's been as bad as you seem to feel it has.

 

[BuntonRules]

I don't think there's an assumption that the FFC represent everyone that ever followed the club in its AFL days. If anything, that's a misrepresentation made by the media more than anywhere else as they, despite constant correction being offered, love to print the 'Fitzroy faithful furious with Brisbane' type shit. It's important to note that the FFC did not act until it had been contacted by Brisbane & Melbourne based members that wanted them to hold the BBFFC admin to account on the logo as it is the only real mechanism that was available to challenge an aggressive, secretive move by the club.

Where you get annoyed with the assumption you're on board against the logo because you're a Vic member, I get annoyed at the assumption I don't give a shit because I'm a QLD member.[/QUOTE

Exactly.

And thanx to WhatAboutBob & Costa Sports Logos for the avatar. How I would love to walk in to A-Mart & buy one.

 

[Bobby Beecroft]

Where you get annoyed with the assumption you're on board against the logo because you're a Vic member, I get annoyed at the assumption I don't give a shit because I'm a QLD member. Either way, it's important that we continue a reasonable debate on both sides and pull up those over the top, and correct false information where we see it. Honestly though, I don't think it's been as bad as you seem to feel it has.

Given you are an Qld member, I highly doubt you listen to SEN as much as I (which is very often) or read the Melbourne papers. Although I did here you ring once & It was amusing. Even today it rates a mention within Palmers punchlines, in the Sunday Herald Sun using the Fitzroy Loyalists line.........again.

Witch hunt maybe harsh, but perhaps re-read the last weeks worth of posts. The ensuing responses have been quite hypocritical when a new member has provided an opinion.

Either way this appears likely to drag on through-out the season, & we will both further get to lament our annoyance with particular assumptions.

Look forward to all those Fitzroy FC members that care so dearly about the Brisbane Lions FC, getting to the Melbourne games & swelling our numbers down here. We could use their support & passion.

 

[Stocka]

Look forward to all those Fitzroy FC members that care so dearly about the Brisbane Lions FC, getting to the Melbourne games & swelling our numbers down here. We could use their support & passion.

A pernicious bit of rhetoric there, BB. I'd also like to point out that I have not been amongst those who have made accusations about new posters to the boards, just in case your earlier reply to me was making the assumption that I had been part of this particular activity.

I think that your concerns relating to whether or not Fitzroy supporters will be throwing their support behind the club (as many thousands have over the last 13 years) would be better worded if you displayed your concern at the club's lack of consideration of its members, as recently highlighted by the the majority of supporters who are unpleased with the logo/jumper change. It would be disappointing if what has previously been a fairly healthy number of members in Victoria ended up dwindling due to the BL board and administration moving away from the ideals that it has previously embodied in being a successfully merged entity that represents the desires of its members and supporters.

To then more accurately direct these sentiments of concern that you have regarding the potential for a dwindling membership in Victoria, the ensuing question that would follow would then be "What is the club going to do to rectify the problem that it has created for itself?"

 

[Haggis McHaggis]

Witch hunt maybe harsh, but perhaps re-read the last weeks worth of posts. The ensuing responses have been quite hypocritical when a new member has provided an opinion.

I assume you're referring to Hardcore Lions first post in this thread. You can't tell me he wasn't trying to stoke the fires. Certainly wouldn't call the responses to what was not just an opinion, but a hostile post, deliberately worded to belittle other Lions supporters, a hunt of any kind. If anything I'd say the reactions to it were pretty well reasoned & measured given what was said.

I think half the problem is that when people take a position in a debate they're hoping theirs will prove the position with the numbers. When someone previously out of the debate comes in and takes up position either way, a bunch of people are going to be happy to see someone that shares their views and a bunch more are going to see 'another deluded soul'. Ultimately, most lament that pretty much everyone has made their minds up.

The inflammatory shit, no matter which side it comes from, will only ever serve to make people more rigid in their own position rather than give them something they're prepared to really think about. It's not hard to dismiss someone you reckon's an arseh*le.

Either way this appears likely to drag on through-out the season, & we will both further get to lament our annoyance with particular assumptions.

Quite possibly. It's up to us to correct them though. I've not said very much at all on it lately as the whole damned thing was just giving me the irrits. Ultimately, this whole saga has dug up a lot of underlying shit that exists by virtue of us being a 2 town team, and if we get nothing else out of it, at least understanding each other better is something. Provided we all have the debate without making prawns of ourselves. To me, it's sad the way it's been brought on and likewise some of the fault lines it's exposed. It's stuff we all need to talk about to help strengthen the club.

 

[alscotoz]

Hardcore Lion. In response to your criticism, I stopped taking it seriously as soon as you stated you were not a member but "may next year". The entire saga is about the club's survival. The club needs - above all - members to survive. Even if you , like me,cannot attend a game Lions Supporter membership costs $62 a year. $1.20 a week. All you get is the feeling of contributing, and dismissive emails from managment if you dare query them. And yearbooks and newsletters and stuff.But it is worth it. Put your money where your mouth is. Please do not take this as a snide comment, but a genuine call for supporters to stand up and join.

Don't agree with the sentiments of Hardcore but you lost me here Bunton. Read your comment again. It is pure Bowers. In essence if you're not a fee paying member, your opinion and existence are irrelevant. This brainwashing started by the AFL and perpetuated by the clubs has truly filtered down to 'supporters'.

No money=no love for the club=equivalent to dog shit on our shoes.

Well, my friend that is complete bullshit. You will NEVER convince me that the amount an individual spends on following their club is commensurate with their passion/support for the club. It's errant nonsense. What about the pensioner who has followed the club for 60 odd years but can't become a member because ALL governments of this country give them a pittance to live on? Should they sacrifice, say a square meal to fill the coffers of a club who at the moment are most likely to blow it. Should they be condemned/dosmissed as worthless? Is the guy who is down on his luck or has a heap of kids who all love the Lions, any less valid than the guy who buys a coterie membership (which is probably claimed on tax as a dodgy business expense, anyway)? Are they not to be taken seriously?

I'm sure you're comment isn't meant to be snide but as far as i'm concerned if you follow BLFC you and your support and your passion are as valid as the next member REGARDLESS OF YOUR FISCAL SUPPORT. Finally, i can't understand people who give their hard earned blindly when to quote yourself "All you get is the feeling of contributing, and dismissive emails from managment if you dare query them These members must be questioned (diplomatic hat on). That's exactly why i won't be renewing next year.

Hopefully, you don't stop taking me seriously from here.

I'm just as passionate as i have been since the club was formed. I just don't think you should place supporters of the club into groups and make ones more equal than others just because they sling the club a few bucks and in return are given the middle finger by the administration. Sorry, not for me. As I have said previously i will return as a member when they have an administration who listen to and respect their SUPPORTERS, whether financial memnbers or not. Cheers. Al

 

[weevil]

New posters the other way are greeted with open arms, & the treatment of some is now becoming a little hypocritical. If the shoe was on then other foot, I just wonder what would have happened to the accusers? Some respect for all opinions would be nice, rather than the witch hunt that has started to rear its ugly head.

Lots of people have made OTT arguments on both sides. Unless they start going really overboard with them it’s not our job to moderate them.

What I have noticed is that a number of the “pro new jumper” folks have been making arguments along the lines of “people who don’t like the new jumper are...”

Soon as any group of people start making generalisations about another group the latter group are not going to be happy.

In this sense the anti jumper people have it easier because all their grumpiness is focused at the club admin. It’s not really fair, but I’m not really sure there is much we can do about it.