New Jersey unveiled today!

[BuntonRules]

Hardcore Lion. In response to your criticism, I stopped taking it seriously as soon as you stated you were not a member but "may next year". The entire saga is about the club's survival. The club needs - above all - members to survive. Even if you , like me,cannot attend a game Lions Supporter membership costs $62 a year. $1.20 a week. All you get is the feeling of contributing, and dismissive emails from managment if you dare query them. And yearbooks and newsletters and stuff.But it is worth it. Put your money where your mouth is. Please do not take this as a snide comment, but a genuine call for supporters to stand up and join.

Don't agree with the sentiments of Hardcore but you lost me here Bunton. Read your comment again. It is pure Bowers. In essence if you're not a fee paying member, your opinion and existence are irrelevant. This brainwashing started by the AFL and perpetuated by the clubs has truly filtered down to 'supporters'.

No money=no love for the club=equivalent to dog shit on our shoes.

Well, my friend that is complete bullshit. You will NEVER convince me that the amount an individual spends on following their club is commensurate with their passion/support for the club. It's errant nonsense. What about the pensioner who has followed the club for 60 odd years but can't become a member because ALL governments of this country give them a pittance to live on? Should they sacrifice, say a square meal to fill the coffers of a club who at the moment are most likely to blow it. Should they be condemned/dosmissed as worthless? Is the guy who is down on his luck or has a heap of kids who all love the Lions, any less valid than the guy who buys a coterie membership (which is probably claimed on tax as a dodgy business expense, anyway)? Are they not to be taken seriously?

I'm sure you're comment isn't meant to be snide but as far as i'm concerned if you follow BLFC you and your support and your passion are as valid as the next member REGARDLESS OF YOUR FISCAL SUPPORT. Finally, i can't understand people who give their hard earned blindly when to quote yourself "All you get is the feeling of contributing, and dismissive emails from managment if you dare query them These members must be questioned (diplomatic hat on). That's exactly why i won't be renewing next year.

Hopefully, you don't stop taking me seriously from here.

I'm just as passionate as i have been since the club was formed. I just don't think you should place supporters of the club into groups and make ones more equal than others just because they sling the club a few bucks and in return are given the middle finger by the administration. Sorry, not for me. As I have said previously i will return as a member when they have an administration who listen to and respect their SUPPORTERS, whether financial memnbers or not. Cheers. Al

Her, my friend, we will never find common ground. If Hardcore Lion is a struggling pensioner or somehow down on his luck then I offer my apologies and recant my comments. But I doubt it.

And again apologies, but to me the rest of your tirade is bull. Football clubs are about members. THAT IS WHAT THE WORD CLUB MEANS.That is why we were a basket case in the Skase years. That is what we were set up to be when the Bears moved to the Gabba.

To say my position is 'pure Bowers' is something I find personally offensive - and any one that has read my posts on BigFooty would know so. As a member,club management is obliged to reply to my queries and emails and even if they are ignored at least they are aware of opposition to their actions.

And what I said about it being worth it is true. To support a club - with it's highs and lows - is one thing- but to be a member gives a feeling of ownership that cannot be replicated and gives great satisfaction. THAT is the point that I was trying to convey to Hardcore Lion.

To your final paragraph - what bunk. " I am passionate' but you wont put your hand in your pocket to ensure your club's survival? And to denigrate those who do so as 'slinging them a few bucks' as a 'tax dodge'? Please. And you wont renew your membership until we get an administration that will 'listen to their supporters whether they be members or not? Members pay their wages and give them the political clout to influence AFL decisions. Supporters stay in the cupboard and come out waving their flags when we win a game.

So, you will renew your membership when we have an administration that does what YOU agree with? Meantime, the Lions can go down the tube, with an administration that has no opposition. Leave the club to them and their sycopants?

If you are a passionate Lions supporter - PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS PAY YOUR MEMBERSHIP. AND HARASS THEM UNTIL THEY SEE THE OPPOSITION TO THEIR ACTIONS AND CHANGE COURSE.

To all other BigFooty posters, I apologise for the tone of this post but this personal attack angers me.

 

[Maroon Goon]

I was in Rebel Sport today and saw the NEW BRISBANE LIONS JUMPER what a peice of SH*T. The board Must Be on DRUGS.
I carn't see any young lad wanting to wear one. ITS RUBBISH.

 

[alscotoz]

Disappointed you saw it as a personal attack Bunton, never the intention. However, you are still equating dollars with 'passion'. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

'HARASS THEM UNTIL THEY SEE THE OPPOSITION TO THEIR ACTIONS AND CHANGE COURSE'...best of.

'And to denigrate those who do so as 'slinging them a few bucks' as a 'tax dodge'.

To take two parts of my post from different paragraphs and join them together is at best, disingeneous. It does not reflect in any way my opinion. THAT'S OFFENSIVE. Read again.

'So, you will renew your membership when we have an administration that does what YOU agree with?'

No, I will renew my membership when there is an administration who will LISTEN to what i/we have to say. If they don't agree with me/us c'est la vie, but i will not cop being condescended to or being sent a pro forma robot email responses which in no way address my concerns...or even worse being presented with a major change in direction of the club (logo/guernsey) as a fait accompli and then being told by the club my opposition is damaging because it will cost the club $xmillion. NO WAY. NO WAY. The only damaging actions over the past few months have came from the club. Correct or incorrect?

Finally, you shouldn't apologise for the tone of your post. Good to see you're passionate. However I still fail to see how i'm less passionate because i have made a considered decision to not renew my membership. If i really cared about your opinion of me perhaps i would be really angry because i could view this as a 'personal attack'..but i don't.

'Members pay their wages and give them the political clout to influence AFL decisions. Supporters stay in the cupboard and come out waving their flags when we win a game'.

Oh. please! The members can't even influence local decisions. Your second sentence is arrogant...in my opinion.

In peace. Cheers. Al

PS Maybe equating you as Bowers is OTT but nothing you have said above convinces me that your opinion is different from his/BLFC. Namely, If you ain't a financial member your support is less valid than the next person...you don't have 'ownership' of the club. Disagree, but respect your opinion at the same time!

 

[BuntonRules]

Disappointed you saw it as a personal attack Bunton, never the intention. However, you are still equating dollars with 'passion'. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

'HARASS THEM UNTIL THEY SEE THE OPPOSITION TO THEIR ACTIONS AND CHANGE COURSE'...best of.

'And to denigrate those who do so as 'slinging them a few bucks' as a 'tax dodge'.

To take two parts of my post from different paragraphs and join them together is at best, disingeneous. It does not reflect in any way my opinion. THAT'S OFFENSIVE. Read again.

'So, you will renew your membership when we have an administration that does what YOU agree with?'

No, I will renew my membership when there is an administration who will LISTEN to what i/we have to say. If they don't agree with me/us c'est la vie, but i will not cop being condescended to or being sent a pro forma robot email responses which in no way address my concerns...or even worse being presented with a major change in direction of the club (logo/guernsey) as a fait accompli and then being told by the club my opposition is damaging because it will cost the club $xmillion. NO WAY. NO WAY. The only damaging actions over the past few months have came from the club. Correct or incorrect?

Finally, you shouldn't apologise for the tone of your post. Good to see you're passionate. However I still fail to see how i'm less passionate because i have made a considered decision to not renew my membership. If i really cared about your opinion of me perhaps i would be really angry because i could view this as a 'personal attack'..but i don't.

'Members pay their wages and give them the political clout to influence AFL decisions. Supporters stay in the cupboard and come out waving their flags when we win a game'.

Oh. please! The members can't even influence local decisions. Your second sentence is arrogant...in my opinion.

In peace. Cheers. Al

PS Maybe equating you as Bowers is OTT but nothing you have said above convinces me that your opinion is different from his/BLFC. Namely, If you ain't a financial member your support is less valid than the next person...you don't have 'ownership' of the club. Disagree, but respect your opinion at the same time!

Mate, we ain't never gonna agree, so let's stop boring people with it. Everyone has an opinion. This is what Bowers & co. have brought us to? Carrying on about what they have shoved down our throats instead of enthusing about our chances next year, or our future stars? That is what gets me wild - not other peoples opinions. I thought about not renewing, but that plays into his hands - the easy way to have no opposition.

That said, I have always held that those who don't pay their dues are like those who turn up to a party with no beer.

 

[MacMum]

Just to be mischievious....why should a person take beer to a party if they don't drink?.....for others to drink?.....has always seemed a silly "tradition" to me..

Would those others arriving at same party, have a non-alcoholic drink for the non-drinker?....I doubt it


Sorry, couldn't resist


For the record.....I am also one of those unimportant bandwagoners who is not a member, for reasons I will not go into with you....the tears of joy I cried watching Richard Champion also in tears, weren't as real as yours apparently.....the tears I cried when Vossy broke his leg were just crocodile tears, etc etc etc...then of course, there were our 3 premierships, tears flowed then too....but not real, can't be, I'm not a member..

but anyway.......like it or not, I consider myself a true Lions supporter..

 

[alscotoz]

That said, I have always held that those who don't pay their dues are like those who turn up to a party with no beer.[/quote]


Oooooooooooh. You were so close

Take it easy. Cheers. Al.

 

[alscotoz]

Just to be mischievious....why should a person take beer to a party if they don't drink?.....for others to drink?.....has always seemed a silly "tradition" to me..

Would those others arriving at same party, have a non-alcoholic drink for the non-drinker?....I doubt it


Sorry, couldn't resist


For the record.....I am also one of those unimportant bandwagoners who is not a member, for reasons I will not go into with you....the tears of joy I cried watching Richard Champion also in tears, weren't as real as yours apparently.....the tears I cried when Vossy broke his leg were just crocodile tears, etc etc etc...then of course, there were our 3 premierships, tears flowed then too....but not real, can't be, I'm not a member..

but anyway.......like it or not, I consider myself a true Lions supporter..

no comment, except to say you don't have to justify your position. nobody's business except your own

 

[BuntonRules]

Just to be mischievious....why should a person take beer to a party if they don't drink?.....for others to drink?.....has always seemed a silly "tradition" to me..

Would those others arriving at same party, have a non-alcoholic drink for the non-drinker?....I doubt it


Sorry, couldn't resist


For the record.....I am also one of those unimportant bandwagoners who is not a member, for reasons I will not go into with you....the tears of joy I cried watching Richard Champion also in tears, weren't as real as yours apparently.....the tears I cried when Vossy broke his leg were just crocodile tears, etc etc etc...then of course, there were our 3 premierships, tears flowed then too....but not real, can't be, I'm not a member..

but anyway.......like it or not, I consider myself a true Lions supporter..

MacMum, you are truly mischevious. But that is OK. Just as my sarcastic way of expressing myself has always got me in trouble. It has never been my intent to denigrate those whose circumstance makes financial contribution to the Lions a luxury they cannot justify. That connection was made by others. What started all this was my response to Hardcore Lion stating that 'he is not a member but was considering it'.

My maligned and poorly expressed efforts to encourage membership have a twofold purpose. One is to convey the good vibes it gives. And the other is because, IMO, having enough members next year to unseat the current administration is the only way we will get what we all desire - again IMO. And that is management that respects both our heritage and members/supporters.

It would seem that my contribution has derailed the purpose of this thread, so mayhap it would be best if I banned myself from it for a while, and let the discussion revert to it's real focus - the new jersey.

I saw a one of my employers management yesterday, who is a Carlton fanatic. His first words were "so, how are the Paddlepops going to go this year". Even b4 he mentioned Fevo. Choice.

 

[MacMum]

Peace Bunton!....in the absence of weevs, Grim + POBT, I decree you are not allowed to be self-banned..

Back to topic......cheers

 

[CharlieSlim]

True....

 

[Brisroy Fitzbane]

2010 and the jumper still looks like Rott.

 

[blynd_freddie]

As a precursor I will state I like the ‘p!ss jumper’ so I expect no praise for my fashion sense, this is purely an opinion on having seen the jumper ‘live’ for the first time yesterday – for what it is worth, I actually thought it looked better in the flesh than how it has come across in any photo I have seen to date.

Having said that, I still intend to purchase a packet of Quick-Eze antacid tablets knowing darn well I will suffer some form of ‘heartburn’ watching the team run out for the first time in the new strip.

 

[joshhem]

I think it looks better on kids than it has on any of the players so far. I'm just hoping that it's been poor photography and sizing when the players wear it that has made it 'sour tasting'

 

[Hollow Knight]

It does look ok on the rack, but when worn by players it looks terrible.

 

[Mr Ripper]

I think it looks better on kids than it has on any of the players so far.

I reckon if you didn't know anything about the game or our club and you saw that thing hanging on a rack in a shop, you'd probably assume you were in the kiddies' dept. Just doesn't belong in the big league, for mine.

 

[adey115]

I reckon if you didn't know anything about the game or our club and you saw that thing hanging on a rack in a shop, you'd probably assume you were in the kiddies' dept. Just doesn't belong in the big league, for mine.

I read in the HS today (the Scott Palmer section) that the FFC and BL are heading to mediation on the topic in February.

For for the record, polled another couple of mates today (pies fans) as to the jumper... "looks like a kids jumper, what a joke, why did they change it?"

Enough said really.

 

[alscotoz]

Didn't see the article but it would be interesting to know who initiated the mediation talks. I'd put my money on the people in Brisbane.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Am interested to see what comes of mediation... I am sceptical.

There seems to be a fundamental disagreement here... Fitzroy believe the merger agreement locks in the traditional Fitzroy Lion, the Brisbane Lions administration disagree.

Not sure where a compromise will come from.

 

[alscotoz]

Given the Lions administration's current form i'd say they'll try and bully FFC to get their own way. So yes, I'd agree it's difficult to see where a compromise will come from but you never know...

 

[POBT]

A risk in having the jersey future decided by negotiation between the Fitzroy FC and the club is that a solution might be brokered which is a good deal for Fitzroy and a good deal for the Brisbane Lions but not a good deal for those of us who hate this jersey. I mean, there may be something that the Lions offer which convinces Fitzroy to settle the matter but doesn't give any sort of joy re the jersey. For example, what if the club makes a pure financial settlement to Fitzroy in consideration of the FFC agreeing to take no further action on the logo/jersey front? Might be great for the Fitzroy entity but no good for the rest of us.

Not saying this will happen - just saying that the interests of the FFC and supporters opposed to jersey change may not be convergent.

 

[whatboutbob]

A risk in having the jersey future decided by negotiation between the Fitzroy FC and the club is that a solution might be brokered which is a good deal for Fitzroy and a good deal for the Brisbane Lions but not a good deal for those of us who hate this jersey. I mean, there may be something that the Lions offer which convinces Fitzroy to settle the matter but doesn't give any sort of joy re the jersey. For example, what if the club makes a pure financial settlement to Fitzroy in consideration of the FFC agreeing to take no further action on the logo/jersey front? Might be great for the Fitzroy entity but no good for the rest of us.

Not saying this will happen - just saying that the interests of the FFC and supporters opposed to jersey change may not be convergent.

On this, I seem to recall reading something about a financial settlement with FFC a few years back when the lions didn't get their allotted number of Vic games. Bowers didn't seem to know anything about this, so was my admittedly very fuzzy recollection incorrect? Can anyone shed any light?

 

[alscotoz]

POBT your scenario is more than plausible and TBH I wouldn't want to be part of the FFC board who has to make that call. We've already seen Brisbane throw tradition and history out the window in favour of the mighty dollar? If FFC were to do the same then that would be a real kick in the guts to a lot of people. I just hope FFC don't act in the same callous way as Brisbane and at the very least take any offers made back to their financial members...like any professional and responsible organisation would. Who knows?

 

[adey115]

A risk in having the jersey future decided by negotiation between the Fitzroy FC and the club is that a solution might be brokered which is a good deal for Fitzroy and a good deal for the Brisbane Lions but not a good deal for those of us who hate this jersey. I mean, there may be something that the Lions offer which convinces Fitzroy to settle the matter but doesn't give any sort of joy re the jersey. For example, what if the club makes a pure financial settlement to Fitzroy in consideration of the FFC agreeing to take no further action on the logo/jersey front? Might be great for the Fitzroy entity but no good for the rest of us.

Not saying this will happen - just saying that the interests of the FFC and supporters opposed to jersey change may not be convergent.

The FFC always state that they are acting in the interests of Fitzroy supporters who follow the BL (when it comes to any matters relating to the BL). I think the FFC have only taken the court action because of correspondence from disgruntled fans from the Fitzroy side of the merger. Hence I can't see the FFC accepting any pure financial compensation and wanting to move on with their pockets lined. That just won't be the intention of the FFC in this matter.

Based on the merger agreement, I think that Fitzroy's action is purely in relation to the logo, because I don't think the agreement still covers anything in relation to the guernsey now. I'd suggest a potential guernsey change back might be some 'by-product' to the legal action though, as the BL have previously said that the guernsey change was to help match the jumper to the new logo in a big way - aligning 'the branding' as such, especially for merchandise sales.

Hence if the Roys feel they'll win the case in court, and the BL have some doubts, based on any conciliatory nature shown by the parties at mediation, some compromises might be:
a) the FFC suggests that on the proviso that the BL return to the Fitzroy Lion logo and guernsey in a period that isn't financially challenging to the BL (say 2-3 years) then the BL can continue to use the 'new' logo for that period.
b) the FFC suggests that on the proviso that the BL return to the Fitzroy Lion jumper in Melbourne/Away in perpetuity, the BL can continue to use the 'new' logo (or any Lion logo) in perpetuity.
c) there will be other options or possible scenarios. some mightn't be perfect, but I'd suggest they should be a step in the direction that those who don't like the new jumper want to eventually head.

One thing that won't be decided via mediation - public opinion and scrutiny. The only people who are currently totally engrossed with this particular issue, are people interested in the Brisbane Lions.

Come Feb when the NAB Cup starts, non-Lions people will see the jumper via limited media coverage. Come March/April when the season starts, non-Lions people will see the jumper via more saturated media coverage. It is my guess that there will may well be an element of ridicule that enters the public coverage of the Lions when it comes to the jumper. Negative backlash if you like. The 'Fearless and Destermined' Lion will only take on those 'values' suggested by Mr Bowers/The Board if the public and greater football community doesn't giggle at it. Look out for people like Sam Newman to bag it, talkback radio to talk about it etc.

The public won't necessarily be engrossed like many Lions people are, but any public negativity to the jumper will start to stain in my opinion.

The WCE thought their cartoon-ish jumper was a good idea a few years back, but eventually shifted back to the more traditional look when the Eagles public just didn't take to it, and the football public thought it just looked naff. I am hoping that the same might happen with the Paddlepop jumper. But that sort of movement will take time. Perhaps the legal action by the FFC will speed up the process for those who want the old traditional jumper to return.

 

[Roylion]

On this, I seem to recall reading something about a financial settlement with FFC a few years back when the lions didn't get their allotted number of Vic games. Bowers didn't seem to know anything about this, so was my admittedly very fuzzy recollection incorrect? Can anyone shed any light?

There was no financial settlement with the Fitzroy Football Club in 2005.

Details of what was resolved after the merger agreement was breached can be found here

 

[whatboutbob]

There was no financial settlement with the Fitzroy Football Club in 2005.

Details of what was resolved after the merger agreement was breached can be found here

Ah cool, thanks.