Non-AFL chat thread part 2

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Bulldogs Legend said:
I don't deny that the ICC penalties are part of the problem but what I don't understand is why we think its our cricketers who have to be the sacrificial lambs to the greater good.

I think that this has given all the other countries a convenient out where they can all say it was just those nasty Aussies not all of us multiply convicted countries.

If CA or the Australian public want the ICC penalties changed then go for it but to do it unilaterally will have the counter effect of letting the others off the hook and the ICC will make no change.

Contrast the reaction in the SA media and public when Faf was caught compared to the hysterics taking place this week. The end result of this is we will end up playing by these gentlemens rules (whatever they maybe) and the other countries like India (Virat Kholi anyone?) and Saffers (Faf a multiple cheater) and England (Jimmy Anderson I was just cleaning the ball in between being passed the mints) and we will become the losers of world cricket.
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I don’t agree, we only change culture by ownership of the problem and we lead the way out of the rotten culture that cricket has become. We are no angels, our sledging is despicable. This is a turning point in the game. No excuses, we will be seen as leaders if we learn from this. And removing sledging and ball tampering from our cricket culture is the start.
 
DelRe said:
Yeah I’m probably steering clear of giving my own view on it more just highlighting the perfect storm that built against them and they didn’t seem to see it coming. Covering up and lack of leadership seems to have been a big part of it according to the CA (although that may be a bit of cover for how much pressure they themselves were under to be seen to be hard on them from sponsors and high profile commentary such as PM - ironically Alan Joyce quoted the idea of a fair go being breached by their actions as a reason for being tough on them).

Maybe it would have helped maybe it wouldn’t but once caught on TV they were done for and their best bet for a lighter sentence may have been full disclosure and throwing themselves at the mercy of CA. Or at the very least have a better story!

No point looking for consistency in sporting tribunal decisions though. Not sure what rights of appeal they have.
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All true but don’t forget the press conference was straight after a play so it didn’t give them time to think too much about what they should say


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fpcookie said:
He's a lock for MVP for sure. Ring is going to be a bit tougher but they're definitely a good chance.
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I think GSW will be too injury-struck to pull it together and we all know Raptors history in big playoff games. Who else could really challenge? I'd love to say Boston but it won't be their year.
 
Freshwater said:
I don’t agree, we only change culture by ownership of the problem and we lead the way out of the rotten culture that cricket has become. We are no angels, our sledging is despicable. This is a turning point in the game. No excuses, we will be seen as leaders if we learn from this. And removing sledging and ball tampering from our cricket culture is the start.
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Really? I played cricket from a young age and sledging has always been part of it and the worst I copped was from my own family in the back yard.

Now I am not suggesting a free for all I certainly wouldn’t encourage personal attacks on players families or physical contact from bowlers when batsmen are leaving!
However a bit of banter/sledging is fine. If the Aussies were as bad as I everyone says then why is it our opposition had more penalties in recent times than us.
The way this is going we will end up with a nice bunch of Cricketers who get thrashed each series and then watch what happens to the TV ratings




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Freshwater said:
I don’t agree, we only change culture by ownership of the problem and we lead the way out of the rotten culture that cricket has become. We are no angels, our sledging is despicable. This is a turning point in the game. No excuses, we will be seen as leaders if we learn from this. And removing sledging and ball tampering from our cricket culture is the start.
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I've also heard this accusation many times, but never one quote, other than Warner saying "speak English", and from the far distant past eg McGrath. Can you give some recent examples?
 
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dogwatch said:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-...ith-david-warner-and-cameron-bancroft/9600470

And so it begins. Anyone know what Magellan's new 3-year deal with CA was worth? (Clue: they had just taken over from the CBA deal as major sponsor)
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No doubt substantial. However, the real knock on effect that this scandal has created is only just beginning to be felt and is having huge ramifications when it comes to shaping CA's weekend hand in regards to the broadcast rights that it is currently right in the middle of negotiating. I have heard figure of between 50 and 300 million dollars bandied about by people versed in these matters. When you consider how reliant this and ever game is on this income stream to keep competitors at bay at the super competitive grass roots level, you get an insight into why the penalties handed out have been so severe. The hit that the game is currently taking is much further reaching than many realise.
 
Dogs_R_Us said:
I've also heard this accusation many times, but never one quote, other than Warner saying "speak English", and from the far distant past eg McGrath. Can you give some recent examples?
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No I can’t give any examples, just what I see constantly, and for years. Adam Gilchrist is a cricketer I really admire, if he nicked it, he walked. He was trying to put the fun back into the game, with the way he played and the way he conducted himself. Sportsmanship is still a massive part of sport. That why we hated what Essendon did so much. And it’s why there has been an overwhelming response to this scandal, because intuitively, we’ve all known that this team has been outside the healthy tradition of sportsmanship for a long time.
 
Freshwater said:
No I can’t give any examples, just what I see constantly, and for years. Adam Gilchrist is a cricketer I really admire, if he nicked it, he walked. He was trying to put the fun back into the game, with the way he played and the way he conducted himself. Sportsmanship is still a massive part of sport. That why we hated what Essendon did so much. And it’s why there has been an overwhelming response to this scandal, because intuitively, we’ve all known that this team has been outside the healthy tradition of sportsmanship for a long time.
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Not having a shot at you but I'd really rather see something concrete rather than intuitive. Body language can only take us so far. Who did or said what, and when, that was so reprehensible? Was it back and forth, or only the Aussies?

However we might think all this is OTT, if it has any wider influence in the future, both here and internationally (slim hope), it might work out for the best.

I think Smith is a sacrificial lamb though.
 
Lots of stuff is said about players wives and alleged infidelities or past partners.
It's always a good standby to get under a player's skin. As it did with Warner (in his contretemps with de Kock).

Banter is fine but where do you draw the line?
 

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dogwatch said:
Lots of stuff is said about players wives and alleged infidelities or past partners.
It's always a good standby to get under a player's skin. As it did with Warner (in his contretemps with de Kock).

Banter is fine but where do you draw the line?
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I think a no sledging rule would be good to have moving forward. Similar to the Kiwis.

Not sure it even provides any benefit over just bowling and fielding well. You could argue it even takes away from these things which are obviously much more important in taking wickets.
 
Dogs_R_Us said:
I've also heard this accusation many times, but never one quote, other than Warner saying "speak English", and from the far distant past eg McGrath. Can you give some recent examples?
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Ha of course there are no quotes. Why do you think the Aus team always insist on stump mikes being turned down?

The reality is also it's rarely about the specific words that are used, it's all about how it's said, the tone, mocking intimidating contemptuous bullying etc etc, the repetition, all just to upset someones concentration. Warner barking at people. Is ignoring an imbecile barking at you a necessary skill for a test batsman, or something they shouldn't have to put up with?
 
Snake Livermore said:
Ha of course there are no quotes. Why do you think the Aus team always insist on stump mikes being turned down?

The reality is also it's rarely about the specific words that are used, it's all about how it's said, the tone, mocking intimidating contemptuous bullying etc etc, the repetition, all just to upset someones concentration. Warner barking at people. Is ignoring an imbecile barking at you a necessary skill for a test batsman, or something they shouldn't have to put up with?
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They don’t have to put up with it they can be Joe Nobodies like us. It’s called Test cricket for a reason and trust me all sides do it including those angelic kiwis, I was watching the kiwis and the poms and they were definitely sledging each other on the weekend.


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fpcookie said:
I think a no sledging rule would be good to have moving forward. Similar to the Kiwis.

Not sure it even provides any benefit over just bowling and fielding well. You could argue it even takes away from these things which are obviously much more important in taking wickets.
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Players who are mentally fragile have been known to disintegrate under a barrage of constant sledging. Shane Warne was pretty good at it.

Yes, you need to be mentally tough to play at that level but I think there's got to be a line drawn somewhere. Perhaps sledges about personal life and non-cricket matters should be an offence?

Naturally the umpires will not hear everything. It wouldn't be a bad thing to have the stump mikes running all the time, even if not for broadcast.
 
Bulldogs Legend said:
They don’t have to put up with it they can be Joe Nobodies like us. It’s called Test cricket for a reason and trust me all sides do it including those angelic kiwis, I was watching the kiwis and the poms and they were definitely sledging each other on the weekend.


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I'm sure the Kiwis were very politely pointing out that 58 wasn't a number to be proud of and that the pomes equally politely pointed out that it's more than two times 26.
 
Dogs_R_Us said:
I've also heard this accusation many times, but never one quote, other than Warner saying "speak English", and from the far distant past eg McGrath. Can you give some recent examples?
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I remember watching a clip of Michael Clarke telling Jimmy Anderson (I think it was) to get ready for a broken f**king arm as he faced up. Not sure if that is categorised as sledging but a team as ruthless as Australia would no doubt use the mental game as well as any team.
 
Pugz89 said:
I remember watching a clip of Michael Clarke telling Jimmy Anderson (I think it was) to get ready for a broken f**king arm as he faced up. Not sure if that is categorised as sledging but a team as ruthless as Australia would no doubt use the mental game as well as any team.
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A few examples in the topic thread... :(
 
Freshwater said:
I don’t agree, we only change culture by ownership of the problem and we lead the way out of the rotten culture that cricket has become. We are no angels, our sledging is despicable. This is a turning point in the game. No excuses, we will be seen as leaders if we learn from this. And removing sledging and ball tampering from our cricket culture is the start.
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Exactly Freshwater. "The standard you walk past is the standard you accept."
 
Bulldogs Legend said:
They don’t have to put up with it they can be Joe Nobodies like us. It’s called Test cricket for a reason and trust me all sides do it including those angelic kiwis, I was watching the kiwis and the poms and they were definitely sledging each other on the weekend.


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Yeah of course other teams do it no ones suggested that they don't so you're kind of arguing with no one there.

Anyway in the end it's about the paying customer, and as a paying customer I want to see a bowler get a batsman out with skill not because he's been distracted by sledges about his missus.
 
Geez I feel for Bancroft in particular. His presser was hard to watch. The shit he's going to cop for the rest of his life is completely disproportional to the crime.

There are murderers, wife beaters, drunk drivers who've killed people and people who've kicked other people in the face studs up whilst not in a marking contest who are going to have an easier time of it and find forgiveness more readily.
 
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Pugz89 said:
I remember watching a clip of Michael Clarke telling Jimmy Anderson (I think it was) to get ready for a broken f**king arm as he faced up. Not sure if that is categorised as sledging but a team as ruthless as Australia would no doubt use the mental game as well as any team.
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Context is important. Clarke was apparently responding after Anderson had threatened to kill one of his players...
 

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Non-AFL chat thread part 2

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