Oppo Camp Non-Eagles Discussion

[Chief]

Continued in Part 2:

Oppo Camp - Non-Eagles Discussion

Who gives a **** about finals anyway So overrated It’s all about the draft these days

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Keys]

You can make reasoned delineations between each of those companies/enterprises you have listed. Even the oil/gas companies listed differ in their ethical standards (i.e. there would be a stronger case to protest say Shell sponsoring your team than Woodside).

Sport teams (at least in the AFL) are not listed companies. They are not subject to a legal obligation to maximise returns to any shareholders. There is increasing awareness of sportswashing, and its impact on society, so we can rightly expect to see more consideration of the sources of sponsorship income in sports.

It’s an interesting concept- sportswashing.

People complaining about it rarely stand to lose anything personally if their protests succeed

As you correctly say AFL teams are not listed companies with shareholders to appease and ultimately making a profit isn’t their primary focus. However, their end goal (winning) requires a level of financial performance to be able to compete successfully towards that goal. Sponsorship is a necessary evil

If unethical/immoral companies are removed from the sponsorship pool then ultimately less money flows into sports

Where does that impact? Maybe the participants get paid less or does the lost revenue get replaced by charging higher admission or eliminating free to air access to boost TV income through pay TV

Are Carmen Lawrence and her mates going to stop supporting Freo if they continue the Woodside sponsorship. Doubt it

 

[Keys]

People/groups have different opinions on matters, including companies and the products they produce. They have the right to voice those opinions, which includes the right to protest. It has always been this way and it always will be. It is not a slippery slope. Being labelled a hypocrite, correctly or incorrectly, is honstely a triviality

Absolutely people have the right to protest. It’s a cornerstone of any properly functioning democracy

And it’s up to Fremantle whether they continue with Woodside’s sponsorship

Life goes on whatever they decide but don’t be naive to think that if they sever ties, it won’t happen again to them or some other club down the track

 

[Rowan18]

This argument is not as clever as you think it is. Consumers do not have a real choice to use or not use gas or fossil fuels. The disproportionate amd unchecked influence of energy companies in Australian politics and the media is a significant contributing factor to the lack of a viable aternative. In the absence of consumer choice, protest is a fair recourse. Or am I missing a veiled jab at Freo in this?

I didn't think it was particularly cleaver. I'm just a bit sick of people arbitrarily arcing up about something for a cause, when they are directly contributing to the problem they appear to be so concerned about.

Let's ditch Woodside as a sponsor because they are evil as they burn fossil fuels. After we've won that battle we can then drive home in our petrol burning cars, turn on all our lights and burn plenty of energy and jump on flights for our overseas holidays. But we made a difference because we stopped some sports sponsorship.

Protest only works when there is actual follow through forcing a change. This flavour of the month outrage trend isn't fooling anyone into thinking consumers are about to abandon them en-mass.

 

[Keys]

I will say though that sportswashing as a destructive influence shouldn’t be ignored

Golf isn’t a sport I follow, or care for, but when you have the sort of obscene oil money flowing in to golf that threatens to fundamentally alter the sport, not for the good of the sport but just because they can it’s an issue

Similar thing seems to be happening with soccer and the big European/EPL clubs wanting to breakaway for their own super league

So if Woodside, for example, decided for whatever reason to bankroll a breakaway league to further their own ambitions then I’d have a problem with that. Sponsoring a single failing AFL team, not so much

 

[ioppolo]

St Kilda fans don't actually seem to upset at the Ross stuff.

 

[Icanwalk]

I will say though that sportswashing as a destructive influence shouldn’t be ignored

Golf isn’t a sport I follow, or care for, but when you have the sort of obscene oil money flowing in to golf that threatens to fundamentally alter the sport, not for the good of the sport but just because they can it’s an issue

Similar thing seems to be happening with soccer and the big European/EPL clubs wanting to breakaway for their own super league

So if Woodside, for example, decided for whatever reason to bankroll a breakaway league to further their own ambitions then I’d have a problem with that. Sponsoring a single failing AFL team, not so much

It’s an interesting concept- sportswashing.

People complaining about it rarely stand to lose anything personally if their protests succeed

As you correctly say AFL teams are not listed companies with shareholders to appease and ultimately making a profit isn’t their primary focus. However, their end goal (winning) requires a level of financial performance to be able to compete successfully towards that goal. Sponsorship is a necessary evil

If unethical/immoral companies are removed from the sponsorship pool then ultimately less money flows into sports

Where does that impact? Maybe the participants get paid less or does the lost revenue get replaced by charging higher admission or eliminating free to air access to boost TV income through pay TV

Are Carmen Lawrence and her mates going to stop supporting Freo if they continue the Woodside sponsorship. Doubt it

I need to be clearer. I differented sport teams from listed companies because they are not legally required to maximise profits. They do not need to take sponsorship income from the highest bidder. They can include other parameters or stakeholders in their decision making (this includes ethics). The major constraint is that they are able to run a sustainable organisation. As you say, it only requires "a level of financial performance to succeed" and in the AFL, with its protected structure, there are other more important factors that determine success (management decisions, list management, coaching strategy, etc.). No one is arguing for no sponsorship and the slippery slope does not hold.

You don't seem to understand "sportswashing" (or at least, are not using the term correctly). It refers to the practice of organisations using sports to improve ("wash") its reputation/image that has been tarnished by wrongdoings. Clubs (and their fans) are now more aware at how their brands are being used for this purpose.

What you are describing is a different (albeit related) problem with money in sports: sport teams being run as profit making companies to the detriment of the sport, the club and the fans.

 

[Icanwalk]

I didn't think it was particularly cleaver. I'm just a bit sick of people arbitrarily arcing up about something for a cause, when they are directly contributing to the problem they appear to be so concerned about.

Let's ditch Woodside as a sponsor because they are evil as they burn fossil fuels. After we've won that battle we can then drive home in our petrol burning cars, turn on all our lights and burn plenty of energy and jump on flights for our overseas holidays. But we made a difference because we stopped some sports sponsorship.

I'm not sure if you are deliberately missing the point, so at the risk of repeition (or wasting everyone's time), I'll try again.

By this reasoning, all criticism of or protest against fossil fuel companies is illegitimate. People do not simply have a choice to stop using fossil fuels. The market, for various reasons (including the political influence of fossil fuel companies), has not provided this "choice". You are frustrated at people who have no options but to participate in a carbon-based society.

And in any case, consumer choice within a market (even in an extreme or organised form such as boycotting) is an impotent mode of political expression. They are instead exercising a more powerful mode: protest. This is why the right to protest is central to democracy.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Two things re Woodside issue

1) whilst woodside are into LNG, aren’t they also getting into hydrogen and other clean energy? I wouldn’t think they will just cease to exist as the australia and the world move away from fossil fuels

2) I would hope that those protesting don’t have gas stoves or heaters at home.

 

[kaII]

2032 All AFL sponsor logos to be replaced by

 

[Truckosaurus]

St Kilda fans don't actually seem to upset at the Ross stuff.

Stockholm Syndrome

 

[FKASC]

i wouldn’t think they will just cease to exist as the australia and the world move away from fossil fuels

That will never happen if everyone keeps using the logic of “since you use electricity at home, any criticism you make is invalid”

 

[FKASC]

St Kilda fans don't actually seem to upset at the Ross stuff.

I went into their board to check for melts but they’ve just devolved into similar arguments against wokeness

 

[ziad]

Two things re Woodside issue

1) whilst woodside are into LNG, aren’t they also getting into hydrogen and other clean energy? I wouldn’t think they will just cease to exist as the australia and the world move away from fossil fuels

2) I would hope that those protesting don’t have gas stoves or heaters at home.

Royalties prop up the state and mining props up the country. Right or wrong, go to a public hospital or scoool, use public services and woodsite etel are paying for it

 

[Seadog]

Royalties prop up the state and mining props up the country. Right or wrong, go to a public hospital or scoool, use public services and woodsite etel are paying for it

Analysis produced by The Australia Institute estimates that $27 billion worth of LNG was exported from Western Australia in 2021, but just $430 million was paid to the WA state government in royalties.

This sees LNG royalties making up just 1 per cent of state government revenues and contributing a smaller amount to the government’s income than vehicle registration fees.

 

[Bender_]

Am I the only one who thinks Lyon will be an astute signing by the Saints?

He’s done well there before and is a much better coach than Ratten.

Posted by you, and liked by ep2018.

shakes head

 

[ziad]

Analysis produced by The Australia Institute estimates that $27 billion worth of LNG was exported from Western Australia in 2021, but just $430 million was paid to the WA state government in royalties.

This sees LNG royalties making up just 1 per cent of state government revenues and contributing a smaller amount to the government’s income than vehicle registration fees.

etel is the key words - resources prices through the roof (dont mention Qld and coal or federal revenue)

 

[Forward Press]

That will never happen if everyone keeps using the logic of “since you use electricity at home, any criticism you make is invalid”

Ochre's cartoon from yesterday deserves to be reposted...

Buying products from Nestle does not mean I am a hypocrite for criticising their water degradation practices. Driving a Volkswagen car does not mean I am precluded from criticising them about cheating emissions standards. Supporting Fremantle (ugh) does not mean I cannot question having Woodside as a major sponsor.

 

[ziad]

Ochre's cartoon from yesterday deserves to be reposted...

Buying products from Nestle does not mean I am a hypocrite for criticising their water degradation practices. Driving a Volkswagen car does not mean I am precluded from criticising them about cheating emissions standards. Supporting Fremantle (ugh) does not mean I cannot question having Woodside as a major sponsor.

thats your opinion
Actions epeek louder than words.

 

[kempy]

So Senator Lydia Thorpe was “dating” Dean Martin ( not that one ..) while on a Senate committee of law enforcement. Mr Martin is Dusty’s uncle. And was a Rebels leader. ( yes, that bikie group). An error of judgement, apparently.
Expect all sorts of responses from our RWNJs.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Bender_]

So Senator Lydia Thorpe was “dating” Dean Martin ( not that one ..) while on a Senate committee of law enforcement. Mr Martin is Dusty’s uncle. And was a Rebels leader. ( yes, that bikie group). An error of judgement, apparently.
Expect all sorts of responses from our RWNJs.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Ain't that a kick in the head.

 

[Rowan18]

Analysis produced by The Australia Institute estimates that $27 billion worth of LNG was exported from Western Australia in 2021, but just $430 million was paid to the WA state government in royalties.

This sees LNG royalties making up just 1 per cent of state government revenues and contributing a smaller amount to the government’s income than vehicle registration fees.

That ignores the GST they pay and the royalties they pay to the federal government (some of which is laid back to WA through an agreement).

It also ignores the salaries they pay and PAYG tax and payroll tax paid.

 

[Rowan18]

Ochre's cartoon from yesterday deserves to be reposted...

Buying products from Nestle does not mean I am a hypocrite for criticising their water degradation practices. Driving a Volkswagen car does not mean I am precluded from criticising them about cheating emissions standards. Supporting Fremantle (ugh) does not mean I cannot question having Woodside as a major sponsor.

That is a very black and white view. Sure, you can't stop using the product completely, but you can practice what you preach and minimise it wherever practical.

I see too many people go down the token slacktivist route. They bum off work to "strike against climate change" but then make absolutely zero effort to live a more sustainable life themselves. Even small things like minimising household waste, auditing electricity use and using timers etc to minimise passive consumption.

There are too many that have a cry to the government to fix all the problems but won't lift a finger to do anything themselves. No wonder all they get is the Government doing similar token efforts of change (eg nefarious carbon reduction targets far enough into the future so they won't be held responsible for not achieving).

I have seen the rare few who do follow through. Living off the grid, growing their own veggies etc. If they have a crack at a polluter then I'll give respect, as they're making an effort to drive a change.

 

[Forward Press]

That is a very black and white view. Sure, you can't stop using the product completely, but you can practice what you preach and minimise it wherever practical.

I see too many people go down the token slacktivist route. They bum off work to "strike against climate change" but then make absolutely zero effort to live a more sustainable life themselves. Even small things like minimising household waste, auditing electricity use and using timers etc to minimise passive consumption.

There are too many that have a cry to the government to fix all the problems but won't lift a finger to do anything themselves. No wonder all they get is the Government doing similar token efforts of change (eg nefarious carbon reduction targets far enough into the future so they won't be held responsible for not achieving).

I have seen the rare few who do follow through. Living off the grid, growing their own veggies etc. If they have a crack at a polluter then I'll give respect, as they're making an effort to drive a change.

Of course there are loads of slacktivists that think tweeting about a social or environmental issue is enough - the classic 'virtue signaller'. Fine. However, too often nowadays are people using that to demean a valid cause - and climate change is a valid cause, this is not in dispute.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with people calling for Woodside to be dropped as a sponsor because of a perceived lack of action on climate change, while continuing to drive a car to work when public transport is not easily accessible or convenient for them. It is simply not feasible for most in society to 'live off the grid, growing their own veggies etc' and this does not automatically preclude that vast majority from legitimate criticisms of resource companies continuing to make bank from fossil fuels.

 

[Altum Volantes]

So Senator Lydia Thorpe was “dating” Dean Martin ( not that one ..) while on a Senate committee of law enforcement. Mr Martin is Dusty’s uncle. And was a Rebels leader. ( yes, that bikie group). An error of judgement, apparently.
Expect all sorts of responses from our RWNJs.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Thanks for the clarifications there.

As a side though, Dean Martin as Han Solo (a known Rebel) would have added a whole other dimension to the movies.

 

[Luuuc]