Oppo Camp Non-Essendon Football Thread XVI

[Run and carry]

Well said.

One of the funnier things you can do is go to a game where Ess is not playing and listen to the fans interpreting why every decision should be their way. Their player tackles someone high and they yell he ducked. Push in the back, he dived. Every tackle should be holding the ball and so on.

Doesn't mean I wont complain about things in tight games myself too (especially against Swans in Syd - thank goodness we dont have that this year) but the reality is there are so many 50/50 decisions in a game of footy that there will seem to be inconsistencies.

Its called being a "one eyed supporter" and I've never understood why it is seen as so endearing or honourable. Regular people with jobs requiring reasoning and maturity during the week sit in a crowd on a Saturday crying out "holding the ball" when an opposition player clearly had no prior opportunity and they couldn't really see it anyway because they are 200 metres away and staring into the sun.

 

[ant555]

I largely agree with all this - and will add not only have there always been mistakes, there was WAY less scrutiny on them back in the day

HTB is an example of a rule I admit I don’t fully understand right now. I remember on Anzac Day three or four years back there were a couple of decisions that looked terrible as the Collingwood player effectively dropped the ball while “making an attempt after no prior” and they got ticked off. That doesn’t seem right to the average footy fan, me included.

But the point about comparing mistakes between umpires & players… I hear many people make that point but I just don’t think this is a relevant comparison. Yes, the players make more mistakes. But so they should.

Players put their hand up to play a skill game. Umpires put their hand up to play a judgement game where they just have to see and think, not see and think and then execute their thinking by catching or kicking a bobbling oblong ball or tackling an opponent. It’s totally different.

A great goal kicker might have a 60% conversion rate. Would we be happy with that from umpires?

I think it’s very fair to say that it’s reasonable for umpires to make some mistakes. Things happen fast and you aren’t always in the perfect position to see what is obvious to the TV camera or crowd. But comparing umpires and players isn’t relevant.

It’s also fair to examine if decisions made in the last 5 minutes if games are different to those from the rest of the game. There is a lot of pressure in that period, and to my eye some umps are succumbing to it. The umpires panel needs to coach umps to address it and reward umps who are cool and consistent under pressure.

The argument of player mistake v umpire mistakes comes in when people say the umpires cost a side the game when there will be any number of incidents that cost a side a game . You can examine the mistake for sure but a lot happens in the last 5 minutes.

 

[Lore]

Not much to do with umpires but I thought this was a very Melbourne take on the topic of Union Jack dress up day;

Camilla is the Collingwood of the royal family

On Sunday, my family and I found ourselves willing Collingwood home against Adelaide. Until that moment, I’d hated Collingwood my whole life. It made me wonder what else I’ve unfairly ruled out.

www.theage.com.au

Bonus point because the journo is an Essendon fan.

 

[citizen-erased]

Well said.

One of the funnier things you can do is go to a game where Ess is not playing and listen to the fans interpreting why every decision should be their way. Their player tackles someone high and they yell he ducked. Push in the back, he dived. Every tackle should be holding the ball and so on.

Doesn't mean I wont complain about things in tight games myself too (especially against Swans in Syd - thank goodness we dont have that this year) but the reality is there are so many 50/50 decisions in a game of footy that there will seem to be inconsistencies.

I find i over correct in our games now and will accept the rub of thr green when we get it and luck of the draw when we dont (except when we go to the scg.....pure corruption that one)

Its the neutral games where i get invested in the quality of the game vs the outcome that it comes out, and ill really criticise the umps performance and impact on a game

 

[jannissary]

Was at the game. Left at 3/4 time. Boring game, cold and wet. Actually wasn't that cold but not worth sitting in the rain for the inevitable result. Was wet.

looked pretty uneventful, shame really

 

[Vindicater]

Hawthorn.
One win and a percentage of 61.

 

[fairbump_playon]

The argument of player mistake v umpire mistakes comes in when people say the umpires cost a side the game when there will be any number of incidents that cost a side a game . You can examine the mistake for sure but a lot happens in the last 5 minutes.

Good teams should never blame the umpire, agreed. It’s a bad look but the main problem is that it contributes to cultural weakness. Success requires players that will always take responsibility and that starts with messaging from coaches.

West Coast is a good example… got very whiny and suddenly everything is too hard. Feel like this is the one thing Damian Barrett and I agree on.

 

[citizen-erased]

The argument of player mistake v umpire mistakes comes in when people say the umpires cost a side the game when there will be any number of incidents that cost a side a game . You can examine the mistake for sure but a lot happens in the last 5 minutes.

Generally agree unless there's a momentum break.

Ill take the game yday as an example
Geelong all over the crows until the last when the crows started storming.
4 goal deficit was 2. Then keays 100% makes it 1 with 2m and all the momentum.

Ball goes down other end, henry scores. 1 goal ball game v 3 with 2m and thats that.

And its not like it was a line ball call.
Ump was 5m away, unimpeded view, bews arm is hugging keays and ball is on the ground.

Ump equivalent of keays missing that setshot from 3m out directly in front

On balance, geelong better team on the day. Crows worked their way back though and had that hard work undermined

 

[Lore]

 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

Nick Daicos deserves a lot of praise. However the amount of times this game he just ran next to an opposition player with the ball and didn’t tackle, or ran behind watching his player run forward and didn’t go with them would frustrate me if I was a Pies supporter.

 

[raskolnikov]

Swans running into a bit of form. We never get to play out of form teams.

 

[citizen-erased]

Sunday evening vfl match living up to my feelings towards both sides

 

[Schnitzengruben]

Gulden.

McKay.

GeT iT dOnE DoDoRo.

 

[Old Campaigner]

Looks like Lyonball is back

 

[faible]

Nick Daicos deserves a lot of praise. However the amount of times this game he just ran next to an opposition player with the ball and didn’t tackle, or ran behind watching his player run forward and didn’t go with them would frustrate me if I was a Pies supporter.

He's a good outside player, but he's got to find a way to impact defensively and on the inside before I agree he's the best player in the game like some are arguing.

 

[eth-dog]

He's a good outside player, but he's got to find a way to impact defensively and on the inside before I agree he's the best player in the game like some are arguing.

I'd argue none of the best players in the comp are great defensively tbh

 

[Vindicater]

He's a good outside player, but he's got to find a way to impact defensively and on the inside before I agree he's the best player in the game like some are arguing.

My question will be when finals football starts and the intensity and fight goes up a level.

I think he handles it but until that moment we won't really know.

 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

I'd argue none of the best players in the comp are great defensively tbh

One thing to be not great defensively, another thing to be an open gate. Don't get me wrong, Daicos is fantastic in many ways and I'd love him at Essendon, but the hype needs tempering.

 

[VelvetSledge]

Grim.

 

[Saint]

I'd argue none of the best players in the comp are great defensively tbh

Tom Stewart pretty handy defender. Callum Mills made all-australian on the wing and he's very good defensively. Obviously the KPDs in the AA team are good defenders too. You're right about the mids, but obviously the best ball players in our game aren't going to spend a lot of time defensively when their opponent is up their clacker all day.

Pretty interesting stuff over on the Wobbles board.

Club supporters with long history of racism (no club has no history, but theirs is well documented) can't understand why the media is suggesting they might be racist for booing and temper their allegations by saying it's about a champion of the game. CEO, Coach and Captain apologise on their behalf and ask them not to do it any more.

Club supporters still see no problem and vow to continue behaviour which their club captain and coach don't want them to do.

Ex-coach and favourite son, somebody who all these so-called fans idolise, says the quiet bit out loud and gets screamed down even more.

 

[eth-dog]

Tom Stewart pretty handy defender. Callum Mills made all-australian on the wing and he's very good defensively. Obviously the KPDs in the AA team are good defenders too. You're right about the mids, but obviously the best ball players in our game aren't going to spend a lot of time defensively when their opponent is up their clacker all day.

Pretty interesting stuff over on the Wobbles board.

Club supporters with long history of racism (no club has no history, but theirs is well documented) can't understand why the media is suggesting they might be racist for booing and temper their allegations by saying it's about a champion of the game. CEO, Coach and Captain apologise on their behalf and ask them not to do it any more.

Club supporters still see no problem and vow to continue behaviour which their club captain and coach don't want them to do.

Ex-coach and favourite son, somebody who all these so-called fans idolise, says the quiet bit out loud and gets screamed down even more.

Stewart is a great intercept player but average defensively. Mills is probably the only one who ranks in the top echelon who is good defensively.

How many key defenders are in the top 10 players in the game? And by the best, that's what I mean.

Of the past decade, how many of Dangerfield, Fyfe, Ablett, Martin, Buddy, Jeremy Cameron and players of that tier have been good defensively?

 

[Saint]

Stewart is a great intercept player but average defensively. Mills is probably the only one who ranks in the top echelon who is good defensively.

How many key defenders are in the top 10 players in the game? And by the best, that's what I mean.

Of the past decade, how many of Dangerfield, Fyfe, Ablett, Martin, Buddy, Jeremy Cameron and players of that tier have been good defensively?

Defenders will never be the best players in the game. Creating play and winning the ball is much harder than simply stopping one other person from doing it.

I also think you're under-selling the benefit of intercept marks. Surely intercept marks are more important than a spoil.

 

[eth-dog]

Defenders will never be the best players in the game. Creating play and winning the ball is much harder than simply stopping one other person from doing it.

I also think you're under-selling the benefit of intercept marks. Surely intercept marks are more important than a spoil.

Which is exactly the point.

In terms of offence they're great, especially if the person is a good user of the ball (like Stewart, Ridley, Moore etc). However he doesn't really excel one on one and isn't good at shutting down opposition players. And that's what I mean by average defensively. I love Stewart and I'd get goosebumps if we had him and Ridley intercepting the ball in our D50.

 

[andleanback]

Enjoy your holiday rioli

 

[VelvetSledge]

You’d think 3 weeks would be a minimum.

Dog act.