North Melbourne to Tasmania

[hawker11]

Now you really are talking crap.



Far too much drivel.

Okay, I'll state it for you.

Hawthorn were one of the financially poorest and least attended football clubs in the VFL/AFL from 1902 to 1997. The years I have mentioned comfortably amount to 80% - 90% of Hawthorns entire history (closer to 90%).

Feel free to post any FACTS to dismiss that statement. Hard data and numbers. Keep the drivel to yourself.

I suppose the John Platten's, Brendan Edwards' and Peter Hudson's were lured by the colours of our guernsey

I'm not going to to dig out previous years attendance figures from decades gone by because at the end of the day it's pointless - If the GFC bites, club's that may have struggled in yesteryear won't be biting the bullet anyway...

Today we're a relevant club in the AFL, well patronised and asset rich.

It's your club that remains in the shit year after year after year!

Back off the hawks that deal with that.

 

[Mario the Lothario]

I suppose the John Platten's, Brendan Edwards' and Peter Hudson's were lured by the colours of our guernsey

I'm not going to to dig out previous years attendance figures from decades gone by because at the end of the day it's pointless - If the GFC bites, club's that may have struggled in yesteryear won't be biting the bullet anyway...

Today we're a relevant club in the AFL, well patronised and asset rich.

It's your club that remains in the shit year after year after year!

Back off the hawks that deal with that.

More drivel.

 

[doodlefeatures]

More drivel.

How about you provide some facts and figures then, instead of retorting with 'prove it' and 'nothing but drivel'?

 

[Mario the Lothario]

Scroll down to least attended VFL matches.

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/crowds/summary.html

My real point is that if a club that struggled for the majority of its history, like Hawthorn, can scramble clear to high ground then there is nothing stopping North, Melbourne and the Bulldogs from doing the same, provided they are given a fair opportunity.

The AFL through altered fixturing, the CBF and now a push for ground cost rationalisation, quite obviously support this notion.

 

[Mario the Lothario]

How about you provide some facts and figures then, instead of retorting with 'prove it' and 'nothing but drivel'?

Glenferrie Oval averaged 13, 094 attendees per match during its VFL history.

The lowest average attendance of the traditional VFL grounds.

 

[1jasonoz]

Toorak Park WTF!

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/crowds/vn_toorak_park.html

 

[hawker11]

Scroll down to least attended VFL matches.

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/crowds/summary.html

My real point is that if a club that struggled for the majority of its history, like Hawthorn, can scramble clear to high ground then there is nothing stopping North, Melbourne and the Bulldogs from doing the same, provided they are given a fair opportunity.

The AFL through altered fixturing, the CBF and now a push for ground cost rationalisation, quite obviously support this notion.

You can argue that the CBF actually holds clubs that receive and ordinary draw back from a fair opportunity.

If they scrapped the CBF, offered teams a fair draw, I have no doubt that teams such as Hawthorn, Geelong and perhaps St Kilda would prosper.

I would also expect clubs like North, the Bulldogs and Melbourne to fall on their arse financially. And this is what may very well happen at the end of the 2009 season.

Crowds in 1940 at low capacity venues when we were 'winning' wooden spoons is completely irrelevant.

You see, Mario, we're in the national league now.

 

[steve #14]

if north go to tassie i will be shattered

 

[Mario the Lothario]

You can argue that the CBF actually holds clubs that receive and ordinary draw back from a fair opportunity.

Yes.

If they scrapped the CBF, offered teams a fair draw, I have no doubt that teams such as Hawthorn, Geelong and perhaps St Kilda would prosper.

I would also expect clubs like North, the Bulldogs and Melbourne to fall on their arse financially. And this is what may very well happen at the end of the 2009 season.

Depends. Do you have anything to back that up besides a hunch?

Crowds in 1940 at low capacity venues when we were 'winning' wooden spoons is completely irrelevant.

You see, Mario, we're in the national league now.

I was merely pointing out that Hawthorn supporters are in no position to stick their collective noses up in the air in regards to North, The Dees and The Doggies, considering their very long history of struggle.

IMO, Hawthorn are 5 or 6 bad years from being back amongst the bottom pack. The massive amount of Awthorn bandwagon jumpers in this years membership numbers is a testament to that. What is the current membership increase, 58% or something? Where were all these people in 1995?

In fact, only the WA clubs, Adelaide and the big 4 Vic clubs are recession proof.

 

[CyberKev]

IMO, Hawthorn are 5 or 6 bad years from being back amongst the bottom pack. The massive amount of Awthorn bandwagon jumpers in this years membership numbers is a testament to that. What is the current membership increase, 58% or something? Where were all these people in 1995?

a) Hawthorn had five consecutive bad years this decade, across which they still maintained better membership figures (30k+) than many.

b) Membership numbers only became a serious issue for clubs during the 1990s, during which Hawthorn became the first VIC club to exceed 30k members.
Where were all the other club's members in 1995?

c) You were getting especially desperate in having to refer to crowd figures gleaned from Yarraville & Corio grounds, back in amateur times, during the Second World War, no less.

 

[hawker11]

Yes.



Depends. Do you have anything to back that up besides a hunch?



I was merely pointing out that Hawthorn supporters are in no position to stick their collective noses up in the air in regards to North, The Dees and The Doggies, considering their very long history of struggle.

IMO, Hawthorn are 5 or 6 bad years from being back amongst the bottom pack. The massive amount of Awthorn bandwagon jumpers in this years membership numbers is a testament to that. What is the current membership increase, 58% or something? Where were all these people in 1995?

In fact, only the WA clubs, Adelaide and the big 4 Vic clubs are recession proof.

Hawthorn have had solid membership since 1997 - the additional 10,000 that have jumped on board have joined for a variety of reasons.

- They picked up the Hawks as kids in the 80s
- Many lapsed members from Waverley re-joining (they needed a good reason)
- The Bandwagon - ALL clubs have them

Besides, the 40,000+ members came prior to the premiership - the year prior your club advanced deeper in the final series...

And currently Hawthorn are in a better placed than Carlton and Richmond - your 'big 4' comment is utter rubbish and further proves you, like your club - are stuck in the VFL.

 

[Beckers]

IMO, Hawthorn are 5 or 6 bad years from being back amongst the bottom pack.

Thanks for the laugh!!!! You are the king of the 1 liners!

The massive amount of Awthorn bandwagon jumpers in this years membership numbers is a testament to that. What is the current membership increase, 58% or something? Where were all these people in 1995?

In fact, only the WA clubs, Adelaide and the big 4 Vic clubs are recession proof.

Admit it, you are in AWE of the Hawthorn FC!!!! Freudian slip perhaps?

 

[Mario the Lothario]

a) Hawthorn had five consecutive bad years this decade, across which they still maintained better membership figures (30k+) than many.

b) Membership numbers only became a serious issue for clubs during the 1990s, during which Hawthorn became the first VIC club to exceed 30k members.
Where were all the other club's members in 1995?

Thanks, but these points are largely irrelevant. I am dealing with the years 1925 to 1997. I realise that most of you Hawthorn fans are unaware of your clubs existence prior to 1961.

c) You were getting especially desperate in having to refer to crowd figures gleaned from Yarraville & Corio grounds, back in amateur times, during the Second World War, no less.

Nothing desperate about it whatsoever. I was asked to table figures re Hawthorn pre 1997 and I did so. Stop being so precious.

 

[Zvim]

I take it you agree with the following regarding the value of Sydney to the AFL?

All teams add value to the competition. NSW is the largest state and exposure there adds a lot of revenue to the competition.

However, FTA and Pay-TV stations don't want to broadcast games there other than Swans home games, especially at the time they are forced to play them, so the value is relative to home games mostly.

Foxtel said it wouldn't pay any extra for games for the new Sydney team, so while there is value in Sydney, I think it is largely over-valued given there is a poor interest in AFL outside of local games. Similar issues which diminish the value of SA and WA broacasting potential. A game between two interstate teams played in Melbourne will still rate fairly well, that is the large appeal of the market here. People here will watch pretty much any game.

In saying that, I do think NSW and QLD are very important markets and long-term will be far more valuable then they are now. All the clubs accepted that and accepted subsidising the development of the northern teams during the foundation era where the clubs needed significant injection of funds from the AFL and they still pump more than $10m a year into developing the market in the north. It is a big investment for the whole AFL, not just the clubs there.

 

[spurs]

It's your club that remains in the shit year after year after year!

Why dont you become a member with the Roos...the colours are alot better by the way than the Hawks

 

[The Fireman]

if north go to tassie i will be shattered

Why what's wrong with Tassy?

 

[steve #14]

Why what's wrong with Tassy?

nuthin ive never been there its just not where north should be. lol. we made so much effort to stay in arden street and not go to the goldcoast lol .

i say we like im a part of the roos haha

 

[The Fireman]

nuthin ive never been there its just not where north should be. lol. we made so much effort to stay in arden street and not go to the goldcoast lol .

i say we like im a part of the roos haha

lol, just pulling your chain mate, I hope Nth stay where they are.

PS you should go there, nice place.

 

[Hawkk]

Scroll down to least attended VFL matches.

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/crowds/summary.html

My real point is that if a club that struggled for the majority of its history, like Hawthorn, can scramble clear to high ground then there is nothing stopping North, Melbourne and the Bulldogs from doing the same, provided they are given a fair opportunity.

The AFL through altered fixturing, the CBF and now a push for ground cost rationalisation, quite obviously support this notion.

They've jut got to win the odd premiership or 7 over the next 20 years to catch up I guess

 

[Mario the Lothario]

They've jut got to win the odd premiership or 7 over the next 20 years to catch up I guess

It certainly wouldn't hurt. I can't see any modern day club ballsing it up like Hawthorn did by 1996. There is just too much marketing and finance savvy around footy clubs these days compared to 15 years ago.

 

[Hawkk]

The same way Carlton did in 2002 and Richmond in the 1980's?

Successful clubs (past tense for Carlton and Richmond) have regularly got into financial trouble in the past

Fact is North and the Bulldogs have won 6 and 9 less flags respectively, which explains why they are collectively so far behind the eight-ball compared to say Hawthorn

Melbourne on the otherhand are in the position they are today because they've been run like a chook raffle for 40 years, not due to lack of success. All things considered the 4th most successful club (historically) clearly shouldn't be in the position they are today

 

[Mario the Lothario]

The same way Carlton did in 2002 and Richmond in the 1980's?

Successful clubs (past tense for Carlton and Richmond) have regularly got into financial trouble in the past

Wrong thread.

 

[Hodgies Heroes]

Scroll down to least attended VFL matches.

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/crowds/summary.html

Mario .... you need to understand figures , not just read them. You have posted the worst attended games in History and used them as evidence of poor crowds. Just about every Hawks game there was in 1941 - 42. I am not sure if you have heard of it but there was a sall event called WORLD WAR 2 that distracted a few people at that time.
Geelong could not even muster a team in 1942 , Collingwod only averaged 5,000 per game in 1942. The entire league dropped off by 50% in attendance. These numbers show nothing.

My real point is that if a club that struggled for the majority of its history, like Hawthorn, can scramble clear to high ground then there is nothing stopping North, Melbourne and the Bulldogs from doing the same, provided they are given a fair opportunity.

How have you not been given a fair opportunity ????
What have Hawthorn been given over you ... in fact - you were given inside knowledge of the transfer arrangements of the VFL which allowed you to secure a host of stars and win a few flags. You have received massive AFL funding over the past few years. Hawthorn have not been "given" anything ... we have made our own success , try doing the same.

Glenferrie Oval averaged 13, 094 attendees per match during its VFL history.

The lowest average attendance of the traditional VFL grounds.

For the majority of it's use the capacity was 10,000 ... it was only in 1954 that a new atand was added to take the capacity to about 18,000 - this was increased again in 1961.

Thanks, but these points are largely irrelevant. I am dealing with the years 1925 to 1997. I realise that most of you Hawthorn fans are unaware of your clubs existence prior to 1961.

We are all very well aware of the history of our club - we are very proud of the fact that we were a club that came from having nothing and have worked our way up to being a major force in the AFL

Nothing desperate about it whatsoever. I was asked to table figures re Hawthorn pre 1997 and I did so. Stop being so precious.

Mario - your fascination with and jealousy of our club is really over the top.. you must start focussing on your own club and spend all your energy trying to do something to help keep them in existence rather than sitting back and watching the dissappear.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

So we are asking Gold Coast and West Sydney to support a team that is born out of dust but you belive that less than 50% of current members of each club would still support a merged team......one that would still carry some of their heritage?

If that merger was North and Melbourne, yes.

See if North did die, and so did Footscray, then ten years later a new inner-west melbourne side was born, aiming to pick us both up, I MIGHT support it.

But I'd never support and North/Melbourne side.

Geez, it was hard enough to bring myself round to the idea of a North/Fitzroy merger and I had a lot of time for for the Roys.

I cannot see how the ONLY logical merger was North and Fitzroy! Melbourne and North Melbourne are a 9 iron apart and both are pretty small areas with similar names (Melb/North Melb) and colours (Blue/White). Both could maintain a huge part of their heritage in the merger including name, geography, colours and rid one club of the DEMON mascot they detest so much!

Oh. My. God.

Its clear your understanding of Melbourne (the city) in terms of football culture is cigarette paper thin.

I could not think of two teams MORE opposed in terms of culture, make up, support than us and the Dees.

FFS - North and Hawthorn have far more in common.

Its not about colours or geographic location.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

Hawthorn have supposedly been around for 106 years yet, if I remember correctly, Hawthorn were on the bones of their backside prior to 1997. I don't remember Hawthorn ever being a financial or crowd drawing powerhouse prior to 1997. In fact Hawthorn hold the overwhelming majority of the poorest drawing attendance records in VFL history.

They couldn't even pay their players well up to the 40s.