North Melbourne to Tasmania

[robaba]

Unfortunately any moneys invested in North's welfare simply disappear forever...there is no return to the game in doing it other than "goodwill" ..and unlike some business the goodwill isnt an investment either.

Elliot's a goose and irrelevant...what IS relevant tho is how it may become even tougher for a club like North to continue being a drain whilst providing no benefit to a national competition...and no likelihood of any future benefit.

Cant see North making it to 2015 in its current form..its simply not a business u ,me or any other sensible person would invest in...offers no upside whatsoever.

Yes and things are all rosy for the Sydney Swans are they?
20 years after relocation the club you are a supporter of is still wholly owned by the AFL and depends on the AFL to keep it afloat.
A city of 5 million still has no interest in our great game.
The Swans would be better off moving to Tasmania.
As for North surviving past 2015, agreed that with the previous 7 years admin , was not viable, but there is a new management team in town in case you don't read the press. And this team is not owned by the AFL.

 

[jacko57]

Hard to disagree with Elliott's final point.

Actually, if you value your integrity and credibility, it's generally a wise move to disagree with anything that John Elliott says.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

And money to assist you in the upkeep of Princess park as it was falling apart after Elliot allowed it to be run down in pursuait of putting all you eggs in teh new grandstand basket.

Firstly, Princes Park wasn't run down directly because of Elliot, it was run down because the AFL battled us for years over fixturing, internet and tv rights for covering PP games, and because when we had a cash flow problem, the AFL bribed us to move to the Dome because it suited them. Then with no more matches and revenue coming in to PP, we had no money to pay for the upkeep.

The AFL gave us money because they wanted the umpires housed at PP, and also TAC games and VFL games. Why on earth do you think Carlton should pay for games to be staged that had next to no gate revenue attached?

I will grant you one earlier point though. As late as our last financial statement, we had not paid the $1.5m loan from the AFL but were now paying interest on that loan after the interest free period expired.

 

[tw0kbydesign]

Ok I will try and avoid a power trip but here goes. Everybody here babbles on about the betterment of the competition, and how shifting one or more of the Victorian clubs will at the end of the day benefit the competition. I struggle to see how.

Has anybody here been to NSW or the Gold Coast? They absolutely HATE AFL. Despise, the only people on Goldy that enjoy it are expats of Victoria, but even so they don't pay any attention because the locals mock them for rating the game. They call it GAYFL lol.

People bitch and moan about the amount of money that North, the Dees and Dogs take away from the competition. We take probably between us 4 million dollars a season. You may think that is a lot of money, but at this present time the AFL are going to basically have to commit to 100 MILLION dollars to get this Gold Coast franchise up and running, on a hunch or hope that it might work. THIS IS BASED ON A FREAKING HOPE THAT THE LOCALS LIKE IT.

Not only that, but you are also taking away the potential revenue North brings to the competition each year.

Now "for the betterment of the game" you are cutting off 300,000 North supporters. What gives you the impression that these betrayed, loyal, faithful supporters will jump ship to another club. I cannot speak on everybody's behalf, but personally I will never respect the game again, the game that has now given me 20 years of wonderful, glorious memories. Take that away from me, and I will spite the AFL like no other, and ensure the future generations of my family never support AFL again.

North were the original pioneers of friday night footy, and a team that rarely if ever misses finals (in the last 20 years), have been getting shafted by fixturing, shitty stadium deals (not alone), paying off Telstra Dome on the AFLs behalf which will end up being everybody in the AFLs asset, and people bitch and moan that we dont contribute enough.

The only concept I would support was merger, but it has to be fair. And I wouldn't with the Dees, it would have to be Dogs.

 

[Beckers]

Has anybody here been to NSW or the Gold Coast? They absolutely HATE AFL. Despise, the only people on Goldy that enjoy it are expats of Victoria, but even so they don't pay any attention because the locals mock them for rating the game. They call it GAYFL lol.
.

I remember when everyone hated soccer as well. Things seem to have changed?

 

[Beckers]

The only concept I would support was merger, but it has to be fair. And I wouldn't with the Dees, it would have to be Dogs.

IMHO, the Melbourne Kangaroos would be the most sensible and obvous merger. Both teams would hold a certain aspect of the original club and the jumper could be blue and white with a Big Red Roo.......unlike the current blue kangaroo North currently have which just makes no sense.

YOU KNOW IT MAKES SENSE

If Mero is around.....do you reckon you could do a photoshop of how that jumper would look?? Would look quite cool IMHO!!!

 

[Bollox]

IMHO, the Melbourne Kangaroos would be the most sensible and obvous merger. Both teams would hold a certain aspect of the original club and the jumper could be blue and white with a Big Red Roo.......unlike the current blue kangaroo North currently have which just makes no sense.

YOU KNOW IT MAKES SENSE

Good luck convincing them...but a merger or two between Melb clubs DOES seem to make common sense.

 

[Royal Flush]

.

Has anybody here been to NSW or the Gold Coast? They absolutely HATE AFL. Despise, the only people on Goldy that enjoy it are expats of Victoria, but even so they don't pay any attention because the locals mock them for rating the game. They call it GAYFL lol.

.

Agree with most.

I'm sure NSW hate AFL, but on the GoldCoast and Brisbane I think it's different. My feeling is that the GoldCoast has a stronger footy culture then Brisbane. Just look at the GoldCoast Bulletin-it has more regular AFL coverage and write ups then Brisbane's biggest paper Courier Mail.
Having been involved with playing footy around Sth East Qld there is a lot of grass roots happening naturally. Unlike Western Sydney which has been a systematic AFL development , against the will of it's citizens.

Drive anywhere around Sth East Qldand you will see as many AFL grounds as you would Rugby.

I know what you mean by LOL "GayFL"
Redneck pig shooters with suped up utilities, XXXX and Bundy Rum stickers, big antennas, spotlights and coobra hats.
LOL I laugh at them sitting in my three stripe tracksuit pants and thongs drinking a flat white.

 

[Z_K]

Good luck convincing them...but a merger or two between Melb clubs DOES seem to make common sense.

No it doesn't. Taking away any concerns about the death of a football club that is over 120 years old and the effect that has on it's supporter base, it makes no business or commercial sense. It's the combination of two problems and removes one avenue of 16 that creates the biggest money spinner in the game.

You don't support a footy club. Stop trying to push this sad state on everyone else who still does. We aint buying it.

 

[Bollox]

No it doesn't. Taking away any concerns about the death of a football club that is over 120 years old and the effect that has on it's supporter base, it makes no business or commercial sense. It's the combination of two problems and removes one avenue of 16 that creates the biggest money spinner in the game.

You don't support a footy club. Stop trying to push this sad state on everyone else who still does. We aint buying it.

Good emotional tweaking of the issue...admirable stuff but its like telling the bank manager he shouldnt repossess the house because its your home and u love it. Helps to dicuss reality sometimes. Yes its nice to know i dont support a footy club...i only wish i was more like a North fan.

 

[Beckers]

No it doesn't. Taking away any concerns about the death of a football club that is over 120 years old and the effect that has on it's supporter base, it makes no business or commercial sense.

Hypothetical.......would you prefer a merge or a fold? In 1996 i was dead against the merge but if it came to the choice of that or folding, then a merge would have been my preference.

I cannot see how both of the 'Melbourne' clubs can stay viable in the next 2 or 3 years if the AFL turn the blow torch on!

 

[Royal Flush]

Hypothetical.......would you prefer a merge or a fold? In 1996 i was dead against the merge but if it came to the choice of that or folding, then a merge would have been my preference.

I cannot see how both of the 'Melbourne' clubs can stay viable in the next 2 or 3 years if the AFL turn the blow torch on!

Dont you worry about us. All of our vital signs were ticked or exceeded in the 1st 12 months.

We are going into year two of our recovery-so keep us out of this discussion. Currently irrelevant, a bit like George Bush.

I'd be more concerned about other sponsor less clubs that are in similar or worse position then we were 12 months ago.

By no means am I saying we made it, however we are moving forward as much as people of your ilk and Sydney supporters wish we weren't.

We paid 1.1 million of our debt from our PAT
We are building a new multi-million dollar facility.
The AFL have expressed their support to the NMFC.
If that changes and our sustainability plan fails-then were gone so be it.

 

[Z_K]

Hypothetical.......would you prefer a merge or a fold?!

The same thing, so probably fold. A merger would just be a piss-taking, teasing bunch of nonsense. A merger with Melbourne would be ****ing laughable.

We are still in a better spot than Footscray. A fact that is - for reasons I still can't comprehend - lost on most. They don't have a sponsor FFS.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

You're a bit slow mate. Relocation is so last century.

Should we watch them die?

 

[Moo]

Everybody here babbles on about the betterment of the competition, and how shifting one or more of the Victorian clubs will at the end of the day benefit the competition. I struggle to see how.

The teams that are fighting for survival are all Melb based.

Port are having a bad year, Sydney/Brisb are backed by the AFL and their presence is greatly appreciated every TV rights negotiation. The other sides that appear to be having a bad decade are all Melb based.

Crowds in a lot of Melb games (and Port) are very poor - especially when opposition fans are not counted.

Melb is over exposed ....culling one side would make getting sponsorship easier, would reduce the number of games in Melb (which may reduce this picking and choosing which games to attend and vetting attendance by day/venue). Also get rid of 1 team and there is going to be a flow on effect on who the next generation go for. If there was no Freo I am guessing my boy would follow the Eagles regardless of what my thoughts were on the matter.

TV rights may take a hit ..or they may not if AFL extends its foothold in the Gold Coast.

16 teams - 1 less from Melb simply means less games in Melbourne not less games overall. I'd watch Freo play the GC on TV, I'd watch Freo play team X from Melb .....if the debate is I will only watch my team play teams I want to watch (which I think it is) - this is why C'wood are gold - they follow their team and turn up/tune in regardless.

Has anybody here been to NSW or the Gold Coast? They absolutely HATE AFL. Despise, the only people on Goldy that enjoy it are expats of Victoria, but even so they don't pay any attention because the locals mock them for rating the game. They call it GAYFL lol..

You need to talk to some folks from the GC - if they have their own team ...a lot of expats will support them (not go for them) but they will win their way into the hearts in 10 - 15 years.

Also talk to to some NS Welshmen .....West Sydney - disaster waiting to happen.

People bitch and moan about the amount of money that North, the Dees and Dogs take away from the competition. We take probably between us 4 million dollars a season. You may think that is a lot of money, but at this present time the AFL are going to basically have to commit to 100 MILLION dollars to get this Gold Coast franchise up and running, on a hunch or hope that it might work. THIS IS BASED ON A FREAKING HOPE THAT THE LOCALS LIKE IT..

One is an investment and the other is going to keep drawing money out of the system.

9 clubs in one city is too much. If all 9 were profitable - we would not be ahivng this circular conversation every year.

Take that away from me, and I will spite the AFL like no other, and ensure the future generations of my family never support AFL again..

You - absolutley.

Future generations ....you can't control.

My guess is if for example the Roos and Dees merged ...you would have 1 club with near the same or maybe fractionally less members.

Those who walk - most would still have an interest in the game.

Those who are that ***** off that they move on ...what you are going to start following rugby league or soccer?

If Freo folded and I told my son not to follow or play footy anymore ...I'd have to take him out of school, ban him from seeing his mates and even then when he turns 18 I might find it difficult to stop him.

Sad thing is in under 1 generation ....the support would rebound. AFL is a great game and part of the culture. You can drop off but your kids won't ...those who do will be minimal.

Plus if my dad went for the Roos ...I come to pick a team and I go for the Melb Roos or perhaps due to his bitterness I follow another Melb club eg St Kilda as I like player X - it still helps football as it makes an existing Melb club stronger.

North were the original pioneers of friday night footy, and a team that rarely if ever misses finals (in the last 20 years), have been getting shafted by fixturing, shitty stadium deals (not alone), paying off Telstra Dome on the AFLs behalf which will end up being everybody in the AFLs asset, and people bitch and moan that we dont contribute enough. .

Fix it, fight it, change it ....lifes not fair and this is a professional league. If you can not fund your own existence you need to bring something to the table (eg Sydney).

The league needs one more Melb based team gone ...survival of the fittest.

Geography aint doing it for a Melb based club...if one goes, the wound is healed within a 15 year timeframe.

The only concept I would support was merger, but it has to be fair. And I wouldn't with the Dees, it would have to be Dogs.

I'll be genuinely sad for whatever path is taken, but if we are pissing money up against the wall - let it be on the GC where it is breaking new ground and the removal of 1 club may just mean we find that 8 is the magical number of teams that Melb can support.

 

[Beaussie]

Introduction of pay-tv is what turned AFL around, sports are a mainstream source of revenue for pay-tv while there is a link between live and exclusive games are subscription uptake for pay-tv. AFL never got what it was worth from FTA but since PTV came out they were forced to meet market value.

I take it you agree with the following regarding the value of Sydney to the AFL?

Take the Swans out of the AFL after celebrating their silver anniversary last year and you can forget the $780 million television deal. Lose Sydney and AFL would lose a huge chunk of its lucrative sponsorship deals, corporate investment and big crowds. The Swans are more valuable to AFL than any team is to any code in Australia.

"If you took the Swans from the premiership, it would be a sorry day for the AFL," says media buyer Harold Mitchell, a former AFL adviser on broadcast rights.

"It would immediately eliminate tens of millions of dollars from the value of the competition. The networks have put a very high price on televising AFL and a big portion of that is because of the northern cities. Foxtel, particularly, paid $50 million because they saw real value in Sydney.

"Look at their TV ratings - they have the best TV viewership of any team in Australia," AFL marketing and communications manager Colin McLeod says.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/afl/from...1174597949535.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap2

 

[Mario the Lothario]

Huh ?...how's the trend up ?
Your trend is still WAY DOWN...unless you're some sort of claytons pies fan that believes one in a row is a trend.

Norths increased membership was just another gift...a gift from fans of OTHER clubs. The profit is temporary...in fact the entire club is temporary and we ALL know it....u included. Thats just the way it is whether we like it or not.

North simply do not exist without gifts of some description...its constant..its a drain..its a terrible unsustainable business that would normally trade insolvent without annual gifts and artificial profits.

I'll excuse the insecure desperate quip about Sydney...that just came across looking sad.

Hilarious.

It actually stuns me as to how you and your drivel manages to stay on the main board.

Kudos.

 

[Mario the Lothario]

IMHO, the Melbourne Kangaroos would be the most sensible and obvous merger. Both teams would hold a certain aspect of the original club and the jumper could be blue and white with a Big Red Roo.......unlike the current blue kangaroo North currently have which just makes no sense.

YOU KNOW IT MAKES SENSE

If Mero is around.....do you reckon you could do a photoshop of how that jumper would look?? Would look quite cool IMHO!!!

What's wrong with the current Tasmanian team?

They seem to be going quite nicely.

 

[The Fireman]

Tamania started out as convict settlement, maybe Carlton would be ideal club to move there ?

 

[Mario the Lothario]

I take it you agree with the following regarding the value of Sydney to the AFL?

I know I don't.


19,000 people showing up to a final, in a one team state of 5 million people, is adequate proof that the Swans have bugger all to do with the games popularity in NSW.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Hypothetical.......would you prefer a merge or a fold

Having been through both in Tassie (East Launceston and Sandy Bay), most definitely "Fold".

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

IMHO, the Melbourne Kangaroos would be the most sensible and obvous merger.

Such a merged club would have lower membership than either seperate club does now, and would attract lower match day attendances.

have you ever met one single North or Melbourne supporter who thinks this is a good idea?

The only logical merger was North and Fitzroy, which the clubs voted down to avoid creating a 'super team', then watched helplessly as the Brisbane Lions threepeated.

Chuds.

 

[Moo]

Such a merged club would have lower membership than either seperate club does now, and would attract lower match day attendances.

What about combined though - surely that is the more important figure?

 

[Mario the Lothario]

What about combined though - surely that is the more important figure?

The numbers mustn't be very good if the AFL have taken mergers off the table. Do you have any figures that support a merger?

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

What about combined though - surely that is the more important figure?

Er. Dunno what you mean.

I'm saying that a North/Melbourne merged club would have lower membership than either club does now.

I honestly reckon it would be lucky to crack 20k. Honestly. I wouldn't go and see the bloody thing.

So if we get 32k and melbourne get 30k this year,, that's combined 62k members. And the merged club would get less than the a third. So we'd effectively lose 40k people to the game.

This makes sense HOW?

Seriously, for those who keep trotting out this imbecelic idea, go and find me five North members who'd support it, and five Melbourne members.

People are not simple economic units. you can't say 'Oh, they both have 30k members, let's combine them and they'll have 60k'

It doesn't work like that.