OBJECTIVE opinions requested

[ozzyoslo]

My objective opinion is this. If we go backwards this year, which is a possibility, Brad Scott has to go. I know he has signed until the end of 2016 but 5 years is enough time. I hope for his sake and ours, that doesn't happen. The other thing we should be thinking about is maybe, just maybe our list just isn't that good. We need a genuine game breaker. Maybe that player is on the list already, not sure. Harvey has been doing it for years but he will be finished soon. We really miss Swallow IMO. And we need a genuine tagger. L Greenwood maybe. Or Hine.

Dont agree there but the rest Im happy with..play on.

 

[Cool Kangas]

Also, why are we up to our fifth gameplan in five years?

Sure we lost some close ones last year, but I defy anyone to think that will happen again. We showed absolutely no run out of the back half in all the pre-season games. We have a Ferrari (Ats) being used as a Datsun and this slow and steady build up works about as well as a chocolate condom if we don't get the ball into the hands of our quality ball users.

There is too much 'teaching for the future' and not enough 'playing for the now'.

Have we reverted to the handball flicky type game plan from a couple of years ago? Looked a lot like that to me (but hey again I repeat - I'm no expert).

 

[ozzyoslo]

Quite right, and I am loathed to use this example, but Geelong have played the same style of football for 7 years with nary a change.

Yeah but its coming....at Geelong. They had some exceptional players....and still do. Their captain is a beast. They have 3 A graders in the midfield ....always helps.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

Have we reverted to the handball flicky type game plan from a couple of years ago? Looked a lot like that to me (but hey again I repeat - I'm no expert).

From where I was sitting, there was very little playing on and moving the ball quickly, which was a hallmark of 2012.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

Yeah but its coming....at Geelong. They had some exceptional players....and still do. Their captain is a beast. They have 3 A graders in the midfield ....always helps.

Yeah, they will have to adapt for sure, but they found something that worked and stuck with it.

 

[rooboy75]

Yeah I agree with this too....no one is willing to take the game on and actually do something courageous and leader-like to fire up the team. Maybe the team as a whole is just not that interested...

That's what worries me the most!

To answer your original question, we will win some, but will not go far in Sept even if we make the 8.

 

[hotham]

I think we'll finish somewhere between 7th and 10th on the ladder.

Let's see how we go, in games where we are coming up against a good side and we are expected to win. Lets see how we go playing interstate. Lets see how we go when the game plan needs adjusting during the game because where are being dominated by the opposition.

My gut feel tells me, that something is amiss in the football dept at Arden St. There is a blind spot and if it's not fixed more of the same will happen. Brad is in his 5th year and the drums are beating now.

 

[Heaps of fun]

There was a game plan that never came into effect that prevented us from winning and there was a lack of spread and winning contests that prevented us from being embarrassed.

 

[koshari]

.

 

[Cool Kangas]

From where I was sitting, there was very little playing on and moving the ball quickly, which was a hallmark of 2012.

I guess, but I thought that when we attempted to move it forward we were looking for hand pass options a lot (putting players under pressure in the process) and when tried to kick we were missing targets.

 

[Gasometer]

.

Best post of the weekend.

Full stop on Rd 1.

 

[Cool Kangas]

There was a game plan that never came into effect that prevented us from winning and there was a lack of spread and winning contests that prevented us from being embarrassed.

Just noticed your signature... Pretty funny given the last few games we've played!

 

[Tas]

Also, why are we up to our fifth gameplan in five years?

Sure we lost some close ones last year, but I defy anyone to think that will happen again. We showed absolutely no run out of the back half in all the pre-season games. We have a Ferrari (Ats) being used as a Datsun and this slow and steady build up works about as well as a chocolate condom if we don't get the ball into the hands of our quality ball users.

There is too much 'teaching for the future' and not enough 'playing for the now'.

The only thing I think was wrong with our spread last year is that we had everyone spread and continue running all the way forward and most were not realistic options to receive the ball, I think once we had the overlap player and had two or three on the burst the rest of the midfield should deploy to counter a possible turnover and rebound.

We needed a few minor tweaks here and there, we haven't played a game this year that is remotely close to the game last year, it is radically different and will take a long time to learn and is no guarantee to be any better than the one we had developed.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

The only thing I think was wrong with our spread last year is that we had everyone spread and continue running all the way forward and most were not realistic options to receive the ball, I think once we had the overlap player and had two or three on the burst the rest of the midfield should deploy to counter a possible turnover and rebound.

We needed a few minor tweaks here and there, we haven't played a game this year that is remotely close to the game last year, it is radically different and will take a long time to learn and is no guarantee to be any better than the one we had developed.

Yep, once you have been a link in the chain and are no longer required to carry the ball forward, your mindset should move immediately to defense.

 

[Tas]

Yep, once you have been a link in the chain and are no longer required to carry the ball forward, your mindset should move immediately to defense.

It is what Freo do well and Sydney do well, the players move into position to lock the ball in the forward 50 before there has been a turnover.

We have too many passengers, too many sightseers who do not impact contests but push forward regardless.

 

[Elite Master]

We lack the real top grade emerging talent and x-factor which comes from too many no-mans-land mid-table finishes over the years which along with a lack of leaders and a lack of consistency from senior individuals and poor coaching makes for a very misguided team with little in way of support or inspiration on the field. The players look confused with the game plan, don't seem to have confidence in it and as a result seem to be disinterested. The players just look all robotic and joyless.

It's not a bad list by any means, it in fact is more then capable of being top 8, but with bad coaching and no real stars its far from ever getting close to being a genuine premiership threat.

 

[RobZombie]

Hm, my OBJECTIVE, or maybe POLLYANNA or at least THE RAGE HAS SUBSIDED A BIT opinion:

In some ways, Friday's loss wasn't necessarily as bad as it looked. No really, bear with me:

Despite being so comprehensively outworked, out-possessed and outplayed, we were never really opened up the way, say, Collingwood were by Fremantle. One of the reasons they had so much uncontested ball was that we set up the press to shut down forward options pretty effectively. So they chip, chip, chip and have to work hard to pick apart the zone. Without looking at a replay -- hell, who wants to do that -- and without actual stats or anything, it felt to me like they had a higher ratio of opportunistic broken-play kind of goals than the overall run of play should have produced. Now, I'm not convinced that the defensive system they went with was ideal, and of course it came at the expense of other kinds of defensive efforts, like direct pressure on the keepings-off game, but at least it's a system. Also the blown match ups like McMahon being stranded with Daniher can't have been by design. Needs fixing.

I think, too, the fact that we're now viewing a 39-point loss as a terrible result is still miles ahead of a couple of years ago. Yes, it's absolutely disheartening to come out in round 1 so flat, but I don't think it changes my view on where the group can potentially end up this year. Well OK it could, but if I let it I'm going to have a miserable 6 months and I'm not up for that amount of misery yet.

I am worried about WTF we are doing with our talls. Going in with 2 tall forwards, one of whom needs to spend time in the ruck, seems stupid to me. Relying on Dish AGAIN to be the chop-out ruck is madness.

I am worried that the selection balance between backing the blokes you've picked and making some hard calls at the selection table is going to be an issue again. I am worried that we won't have enough guys demanding to be promoted from Werribee and NB.

I'm not worried that JZ, Basti, Atley, Cunners, Lachie or JMac won't be good enough. I'm not particularly worried about BMac yet.

I am worried that I'm rattling on too much. More to come.

 

[utility]

Objectively that was the shittest performance since Laidley's last game as coach when we almost had our lowest ever score. We deserved to lose by 12-15 goals on Friday and would have were it not for some superhero efforts by LT. It's not like we were playing the reigning premiers either.

Lack of leadership is still an issue. Lack of creativity in the coaching box is killing us too. There was no single issue but multiple.

Whatever changes to our setups for clearances, etc. they are not working (yet). I can easily see us sliding to a 7-8 win season if we don't gel with the 'tweaks'. The saddening thing is you just know our senior players go missing too often.

Also showed the value of what Daw can bring to the side (if fit and ready) or Sideshow Brown if he's good enough at this level.

 

[HongKongRoo]

What stood out to me was the lack of viable options when we did get the ball. Essenscum manned up perfectly and we completely failed to block for each other or lead into space. Absolutely no hard sprints or anyone trying to drag their opponents away from the contest. It was noticeable in the pre-season games, we are not playing like a team.

 

[Ghostwriter]

Hm, my OBJECTIVE, or maybe POLLYANNA or at least THE RAGE HAS SUBSIDED A BIT opinion:

In some ways, Friday's loss wasn't necessarily as bad as it looked. No really, bear with me:

....

I'm not worried that JZ, Basti, Atley, Cunners, Lachie or JMac won't be good enough. I'm not particularly worried about BMac yet.

I am worried that I'm rattling on too much. More to come.

Good post, here's a question, when Brad first coached North he had Goldstein at CHB, and as you state he plays one ruck now with Drew the chop

out, does Brad understand the ruck position at all, and has his time at Brisbane with the extended salary cap clouded his education of the game, it's

all well and good to win flags with an extra 500k in the salary cap but what happens when you have to scrape for every cent?, wrong man at the

wrong club, Brayshaw needs to be made accountable for this.

 

[koshari]

Objectively that was the shittest performance since Laidley's last game as coach when we almost had our lowest ever score.

i guess you have to quantify "shittiest performance"

losing to Port the other year whilst being so far up comes to mind but technically we really only played a crap 1/4?

 

[Pykie]

If we regress this year, the club has to make a pretty big call IMO.

The Suns are coming like a steam train with GWS not far behind.

As shit as it sounds, if we miss the finals this year, it's got to be Boomers last year, it will definitely be Brad's and we are going to have to undergo a mini rebuild aka the Hawks 2004 to address the age profile at the top of the list, because those guys aren't going to be involved in the next tilt.

 

[Ghostwriter]

If we regress this year, the club has to make a pretty big call IMO.

The Suns are coming like a steam train with GWS not far behind.

As shit as it sounds, if we miss the finals this year, it's got to be Boomers last year, it will definitely be Brad's and we are going to have to undergo a mini rebuild aka the Hawks 2004 to address the age profile at the top of the list, because those guys aren't going to be involved in the next tilt.

Supporters are asking where will we get the money to pay out Brad's contract, it's not beyond the realms that he walks and we don't have to pay out

the full term, also not beyond my thought process that Drew Petrie gets traded to a club with a 'window', Wells could be another to be traded away,

cleanout is coming and it won't be only onfield.

 

[koshari]

Supporters are asking where will we get the money to pay out Brad's contract, it's not beyond the realms that he walks and we don't have to pay out

the full term, also not beyond my thought process that Drew Petrie gets traded to a club with a 'window', Wells could be another to be traded away,

cleanout is coming and it won't be only onfield.

have yyou been drinking tonight Joe?

 

[Northerly]

Hm, my OBJECTIVE, or maybe POLLYANNA or at least THE RAGE HAS SUBSIDED A BIT opinion:

In some ways, Friday's loss wasn't necessarily as bad as it looked. No really, bear with me:

Despite being so comprehensively outworked, out-possessed and outplayed, we were never really opened up the way, say, Collingwood were by Fremantle. One of the reasons they had so much uncontested ball was that we set up the press to shut down forward options pretty effectively. So they chip, chip, chip and have to work hard to pick apart the zone. Without looking at a replay -- hell, who wants to do that -- and without actual stats or anything, it felt to me like they had a higher ratio of opportunistic broken-play kind of goals than the overall run of play should have produced. Now, I'm not convinced that the defensive system they went with was ideal, and of course it came at the expense of other kinds of defensive efforts, like direct pressure on the keepings-off game, but at least it's a system. Also the blown match ups like McMahon being stranded with Daniher can't have been by design. Needs fixing.

I think, too, the fact that we're now viewing a 39-point loss as a terrible result is still miles ahead of a couple of years ago. Yes, it's absolutely disheartening to come out in round 1 so flat, but I don't think it changes my view on where the group can potentially end up this year. Well OK it could, but if I let it I'm going to have a miserable 6 months and I'm not up for that amount of misery yet.

I am worried about WTF we are doing with our talls. Going in with 2 tall forwards, one of whom needs to spend time in the ruck, seems stupid to me. Relying on Dish AGAIN to be the chop-out ruck is madness.

I am worried that the selection balance between backing the blokes you've picked and making some hard calls at the selection table is going to be an issue again. I am worried that we won't have enough guys demanding to be promoted from Werribee and NB.

I'm not worried that JZ, Basti, Atley, Cunners, Lachie or JMac won't be good enough. I'm not particularly worried about BMac yet.

I am worried that I'm rattling on too much. More to come.

This is by far the most rational thing I've read all weekend. Well written