Official Ashes 2006-07 Team Discussion Thread

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Re: The 4 things that need to happen in the next 12 months if we want to regain the Ashes

Where I have a problem is when a players past or rep keeps them in the side! If you are out of form then you should not be playing in the national team, I think Australia needs to have 3-4 players who can come it at any time replacing guys in the current team who are out of form, not quite a rotation policy but having a core group of 15 or so players making up your national side!

That's all well and good, but the reality is that the best players outside the Test side happen to be in the 24-30 bracket. Even older in many cases.

That's the result of a sustained period of success, where we had half a dozen guys play 100+ Tests.

I agree that we need to be conscious of preparing replacements for the current side, but who are we talking about?

Cosgrove obviously. Clarke and Watson have both been in the mix for a while. But which other young players (25 and under) do you think should be given opportunities?

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Re: The 4 things that need to happen in the next 12 months if we want to regain the Ashes

                          mat  balls  runs  wkts  bbi  ave  econ  sr 
Allan Wise                21   3971   1836   73  6/89 25.15 2.77 54.39 
Paul Rofe                 53   11733  5323  180  7/52 29.57 2.72 65.18
Brett Dorey               11    2391   1110  49  7/87 22.65 2.78 48.79

I think you could interpret those figures in a lot of different ways.

Dorey and Wise have the better averages.

But that just reflects the fact that Rofe, at 24, has more FC experience than those guys combined, and has really started putting it together this season. He probably got belted around the park as a young player. That's not a bad thing.

Do you go for the guys that have come from nowhere as middle-aged players?

Or do you promote a younger guy who has been steadily improving for 3-4 seasons?

 

[guess_who]

Re: The 4 things that need to happen in the next 12 months if we want to regain the Ashes

I agree that we need to be conscious of preparing replacements for the current side, but who are we talking about?

Cosgrove obviously. Clarke and Watson have both been in the mix for a while. But which other young players (25 and under) do you think should be given opportunities?

That is the problem I guess, there isnt really all that much in the younger bracket to speak of! Some that show potential but are no where near the level but I would start with the obvious ones like Tait, Cossie, Clarke, even to a lesser point Cullen.

Having said that, Clarke had more than hes fair share of opps... Tait was looking to be in there but was forced out due to injury, will find it hard to be back in the starting XI, No point forcing guys out at this stage who are still performing. But I would think that having Clarke at 6 ahead of Symonds would be benefitial to the team, or Cossgrove. Watson will no doubt be back in once he is fit again, he is one for the future perhaps not quite up to it just yet but definately one for the future! At test level that is.

 

[mcphee_is_a_gun]

Re: The 4 things that need to happen in the next 12 months if we want to regain the Ashes

I think you could interpret those figures in a lot of different ways.

Dorey and Wise have the better averages.

But that just reflects the fact that Rofe, at 24, has more FC experience than those guys combined, and has really started putting it together this season. He probably got belted around the park as a young player. That's not a bad thing.

Do you go for the guys that have come from nowhere as middle-aged players?

Or do you promote a younger guy who has been steadily improving for 3-4 seasons?

Very interesting it will be very interesting to see how these guys go next year, hopefully all of them get a gig for Australia A.

 

[Rob B]

Re: The 4 things that need to happen in the next 12 months if we want to regain the A

You all overrate England, and underrate our extremely crappy performance. Didnt you lot watch them get thumped in Pakistan?

Completely different conditions.

If Englands side is effected by injuries again then yes, England don't have much of a chance in my opinion, but if England are at full strength and in good form they will challenge Australia strongly.

If I was Australia I would hit England with Warne & MacGill for all of the tests, playing the leggies is an obvious weakness. Forget the Bracken and co. talk, England would prefer them over another leggie.

 

[apollo_creed]

Re: The 4 things that need to happen in the next 12 months if we want to regain the Ashes

Just walk me through this.

Cosgrove is a talented 21 year-old who has played a good half-season.

What has he done to advance his selection claims beyond those of Jaques and Clarke?

People get carried away whenever a young player shows a bit of potential. Let's see if he can maintain it for 12 months before rushing him into the side ahead of more accomplished players?

What's Clarke ever done?

 

[apollo_creed]

Re: The 4 things that need to happen in the next 12 months if we want to regain the Ashes

Clarke has made 395 runs from 3 Pura Cup innings, including 2 centuries.

That's pretty good form as well.

If you're taking Cosgrove's ING form into account, then you should also consider Clarke's form in the Chappell-Hadlee ODIs, where he scored 184 runs at 92, including 2 outstanding half-centuries.

Clarke is ahead of Cosgrove. But I still think Phil Jaques is a real chance to slot in at #6.

2 matches?

1 match since he was dropped.

He was dropped for a year of below average test-match performances. It should take more than one performance for him to win his place back.

 

[apollo_creed]

Re: The 4 things that need to happen in the next 12 months if we want to regain the A

Theres a difference actually.

Mitch Johnson was picked on ability and he has lots of it. Dorey is actually good and a success.

That doesn't make sense YOTC.

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Re: The 4 things that need to happen in the next 12 months if we want to regain the Ashes

What's Clarke ever done?

2 Test centuries.

395 Pura Cup runs from 3 innings this season, including 2 centuries.

1896 ODI runs at 45.14, including 954 runs at 53.00 in 2005.

I don't think Clarke should be an automatic selection in the Test side, but Cosgrove hasn't done enough to edge past the more accomplished batsmen.

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Re: The 4 things that need to happen in the next 12 months if we want to regain the Ashes

2 matches?

1 match since he was dropped.

He was dropped for a year of below average test-match performances. It should take more than one performance for him to win his place back.

Have you actually read anything I've posted on this subject?

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=217060

I've been arguing that it's too soon to bring Clarke back in several threads. If you can find any post of mine calling for Clarke's immediate re-entry into the Test side, I'll eat my own @rse.

That doesn't mean I think Cosgrove should be promoted.

For mine, Jaques should be given an extended run wherever an opportunity arises, even if it's at #6.

 

[YOTC]

Re: The 4 things that need to happen in the next 12 months if we want to regain the A

That doesn't make sense YOTC.

Mitch Johnson was picked on ability not or proven success.

Dorey is in great form and will be a success (trust me)

 

[GoSydneySwans]

Re: The 4 things that need to happen in the next 12 months if we want to regain the Ashes

He's actually played Test cricket, and scored a couple of centuries I might add. His average is in the high 30s IIRC, and considering Symonds is hovering around 10 at the moment without being dropped, Clarke definitely deserves a spot in the team. He took the axe pretty well, and looks to have made a whole-hearted attempt to get back in the team.

EDIT - meant to quote apollo_creed's "What's Clarke ever done" thing

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Re: The 4 things that need to happen in the next 12 months if we want to regain the Ashes

He's actually played Test cricket, and scored a couple of centuries I might add. His average is in the high 30s IIRC, and considering Symonds is hovering around 10 at the moment without being dropped, Clarke definitely deserves a spot in the team.

Was it a mistake to drop him?

Clarke is not the only option.

Picking him so soon would be like saying "your performances weren't good enough, but we don't have anyone better".

Phil Jaques should be a given a run at #6.

He took the axe pretty well, and looks to have made a whole-hearted attempt to get back in the team.

That's a pretty gay argument.

He was dropped because he wasn't performing. It's that simple.

He had plenty of opportunities. Now it's time to give other guys a run.

His axing was unanimously supported on these boards. It's stupid to jump back on board with Clarke just because Symonds has struggled.

He was axed because he had problems in his game. Has he ironed those flaws out already?

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Re: The 4 things that need to happen in the next 12 months if we want to regain the A

Interesting you say that actually, because this is the way I see our pace bowling attack at the moment.

1. McGrath
2. Tait (looking towards the future, he is our best prospect by a fair way.)
3. Gillespie
4. Kasprowicz
5. Bichel
6. Rofe

I didn't list Lee there because saying that I rate him No. 7 wouldn't be true, I seriously don't think he's done enough to be ahead of those performing well in domestic competitions. He's done well against West Indies and hasn't really been anything to write home about against South Africa.

This is a breathtakingly stupid post.

How did you like Brett Lee's spell against South Africa this morning?

He bowled Kallis and Rudolph after claiming Smith lbw yesterday.

Lee and McGrath are clearly our best two quicks.

 

[Homer Jnr]

Re: The 4 things that need to happen in the next 12 months if we want to regain the A

Simple, if we are to win the Ashes, Bracken and Clark have to never get near the test squad again, Dorey, Rofe, Tait and Johnson have to be the ones looked at, they need to be given the ultimatum to step up at First Class level and then the opportunity to excel at test level on the tour of Bangladesh.

Gilly and McGrath need resting, so rest them against the Bangers, throw in Haddin (Hartley to become the back-up) and give the next-level quicks a chance to get amongst it at international level. Also send those 4 quicks to County cricket, it is imperative that those 4 have plenty of cricket under their belts over the next 8-9 months.

 

[apollo_creed]

Re: The 4 things that need to happen in the next 12 months if we want to regain the A

Mitch Johnson was picked on ability not or proven success.

Dorey is in great form and will be a success (trust me)

I agree on Dorey. (As I've said many times)

But your original post implied that you believed Johnson had ability. And I questioned it because I thought I knew you to be smarter than that.

 

[apollo_creed]

Re: The 4 things that need to happen in the next 12 months if we want to regain the A

Simple, if we are to win the Ashes,

Bracken and Clark have to never get near the test squad again, Dorey, Rofe, Tait and Johnson have to be the ones looked at, they need to be given the ultimatum to step up at First Class level and then the opportunity to excel at test level on the tour of Bangladesh.

I've found you to be the most bias, uninformed Queenslander on here but this latest contradiction is just ridiculous.

You can't have winning and Mitchell Johnson anywhere near each other, let alone in the same sentence.

I don't mind state bias to a respectable degree but this effort of yours has taken it to a ridiculous level.

Johnson doesn't belong in that list of names, and yes I'm including Clark and Bracken in that.

What exactly has he done, besides look out of place at state level and be lucky to get near a spot in Queensland's side.

He's had no success so far at domestic level and is unlikely to have much in the near future. Wait till he does something remotely impressive at state level before you start your Queensland talk.

I can handle the Hartley back-up call (even if I don't agree) but the Johnson one is BIAS and RIDICULOUS.

Unless of course you're a fan of comedy and enjoy seeing a bowler mocked by batsman. Those Kiwi batsman sure were.

 

[Homer Jnr]

Re: The 4 things that need to happen in the next 12 months if we want to regain the A

I've found you to be the most bias, uninformed Queenslander on here but this latest contradiction is just ridiculous.

You can't have winning and Mitchell Johnson anywhere near each other, let alone in the same sentence.

I don't mind state bias to a respectable degree but this effort of yours has taken it to a ridiculous level.

Johnson doesn't belong in that list of names, and yes I'm including Clark and Bracken in that.

What exactly has he done, besides look out of place at state level and be lucky to get near a spot in Queensland's side.

He's had no success so far at domestic level and is unlikely to have much in the near future. Wait till he does something remotely impressive at state level before you start your Queensland talk.

I can handle the Hartley back-up call (even if I don't agree) but the Johnson one is BIAS and RIDICULOUS.

Unless of course you're a fan of comedy and enjoy seeing a bowler mocked by batsman. Those Kiwi batsman sure were.

What's wrong with the Hartley call? 3rd best keeper/batsman in the land. Well behind the top 2, but still, that is where he stands.

Admittedly I see Johnson playing NO part in the ashes contest, but in the context of my argument, I believe he fits into the bigger picture.

If you are happy to judge him on one innings, then lets jump on all those failures made by debutants and others.

He is young, quick and a lefty, he has the necessary tools to be something down the track, and it is obvious to most, but without nurturing, he won't progress and it is possible we may miss out on a handy left-arm quick.

It is ok the be near-sighted whilst McGrath and Lee spearhead the way, and Tait is the next big thing, but remember the Poms handled Tait pretty well in his debut test, and if we use your logic of judging a player on their debut, then Tait was the biggest waste of hot air on the whole tour.

But it is alarmingly obvious the boy can bowl, fast! So let him do it.

Same for Johnson, they are tall and quick. Tait has everything together at this stage, but this is Johnson's first uninterrupted season.

Johnson is still young, and I believe he can make it in the future with a bit of luck and the right tutoring. He is well down the list at the moment, but there are plenty of pieces of dead wood ahead of him at the moment (Kaspa, Dizzy, Bic, Clark etc) and when that thins out in the future, he will be in the frame.

I never once said that he will go out and win us the ashes next year, I merely said he is one of the guys that will need to be developed if we are to win it. McGrath is on his way out, Lee and Tait will be the front-line bowlers, after that, there is a need to develop the younger guys sooner rather than later.

In 2009 in England, there will be no McGrath, Lee will be the spearhead with Tait and the Poms won't produce pitches that allow us spin them out, so obviously it is important that we have young quicks being developed. Johnson is amongst that group.

Admittedly I was being hopeful in even remotely suggesting he could be anywhere near the team in 12 months, but surely even you AC can realistically realise that he is a chance to get there eventually, and is one of the group of bowlers that need to be given opportunities to develop. County cricket, 'A' team tours of the Sub-continent etc etc. This needs to be put in place over the long term.

Next year McGrath, Lee and Tait will play, simple. Warne will be the spinner and it is highly likely that Watson will be playing too.

But McGrath is susceptible to injury as he ages, and if Lee or Tait go down, Rofe and Dorey are next men up. In that situation, suddenly the bowler that gets wickets between now and November next year is one injury or form lapse from playing on Boxing Day next year. There is a queue of players there, many of whom have peaked and won't have as much time and effort put into them as Johnson and other young quicks.

I only ever said he needs to be looked at, never said he has to be picked.

If you would like to take it any further out of context I'm sure you can twist it somehow to him being the mastermind behind September 11 too.

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Re: The 4 things that need to happen in the next 12 months if we want to regain the A

What's wrong with the Hartley call? 3rd best keeper/batsman in the land. Well behind the top 2, but still, that is where he stands.

Admittedly I see Johnson playing NO part in the ashes contest, but in the context of my argument, I believe he fits into the bigger picture.

If you are happy to judge him on one innings, then lets jump on all those failures made by debutants and others.

He is young, quick and a lefty, he has the necessary tools to be something down the track, and it is obvious to most, but without nurturing, he won't progress and it is possible we may miss out on a handy left-arm quick.

It is ok the be near-sighted whilst McGrath and Lee spearhead the way, and Tait is the next big thing, but remember the Poms handled Tait pretty well in his debut test, and if we use your logic of judging a player on their debut, then Tait was the biggest waste of hot air on the whole tour.

But it is alarmingly obvious the boy can bowl, fast! So let him do it.

Same for Johnson, they are tall and quick. Tait has everything together at this stage, but this is Johnson's first uninterrupted season.

Johnson is still young, and I believe he can make it in the future with a bit of luck and the right tutoring. He is well down the list at the moment, but there are plenty of pieces of dead wood ahead of him at the moment (Kaspa, Dizzy, Bic, Clark etc) and when that thins out in the future, he will be in the frame.

I never once said that he will go out and win us the ashes next year, I merely said he is one of the guys that will need to be developed if we are to win it. McGrath is on his way out, Lee and Tait will be the front-line bowlers, after that, there is a need to develop the younger guys sooner rather than later.

In 2009 in England, there will be no McGrath, Lee will be the spearhead with Tait and the Poms won't produce pitches that allow us spin them out, so obviously it is important that we have young quicks being developed. Johnson is amongst that group.

Admittedly I was being hopeful in even remotely suggesting he could be anywhere near the team in 12 months, but surely even you AC can realistically realise that he is a chance to get there eventually, and is one of the group of bowlers that need to be given opportunities to develop. County cricket, 'A' team tours of the Sub-continent etc etc. This needs to be put in place over the long term.

Next year McGrath, Lee and Tait will play, simple. Warne will be the spinner and it is highly likely that Watson will be playing too.

But McGrath is susceptible to injury as he ages, and if Lee or Tait go down, Rofe and Dorey are next men up. In that situation, suddenly the bowler that gets wickets between now and November next year is one injury or form lapse from playing on Boxing Day next year. There is a queue of players there, many of whom have peaked and won't have as much time and effort put into them as Johnson and other young quicks.

I only ever said he needs to be looked at, never said he has to be picked.

If you would like to take it any further out of context I'm sure you can twist it somehow to him being the mastermind behind September 11 too.

NEWSFLASH: No-one bothers to read long, boring, badly-written posts.

 

[footyfanatic007]

Re: The 4 things that need to happen in the next 12 months if we want to regain the Ashes

People are Naive if they think that only Hayden, Ponting and Hussey can handle the English quicks.

Hodge has dominated the county scene for quite a few years, and Justin Langer is one of Australia's best ever batsman, whos faced alot better bowlers in his time than Flintoff, Harmison, Hoggard and Jones.

 

[F/D]

Re: The 4 things that need to happen in the next 12 months if we want to regain the Ashes

People are Naive if they think that only Hayden, Ponting and Hussey can handle the English quicks.

Hodge has dominated the county scene for quite a few years, and Justin Langer is one of Australia's best ever batsman, whos faced alot better bowlers in his time than Flintoff, Harmison, Hoggard and Jones.

People are stupid if they think Hussey is better than Langer.

 

[Homer Jnr]

Re: The 4 things that need to happen in the next 12 months if we want to regain the A

NEWSFLASH: No-one bothers to read long, boring, badly-written posts.

Stiff ********.

My opinion, and the explanaition behind it. If you are too ignorant to at least read it, then don't make judgements.

 

[apollo_creed]

Re: The 4 things that need to happen in the next 12 months if we want to regain the A

NEWSFLASH: No-one bothers to read long, boring, badly-written posts.

Very funny.

Very true.

But I'm still going to take his poor attempt to justify his bias, uninformed posting apart.

 

[Homer Jnr]

Re: The 4 things that need to happen in the next 12 months if we want to regain the A

Very funny.

Very true.

But I'm still going to take his poor attempt to justify his bias, uninformed posting apart.

How is it poor?

Ohhhh... Because I don't agree with you!

How silly of me to disagree.

 

[apollo_creed]

Re: The 4 things that need to happen in the next 12 months if we want to regain the A

What's wrong with the Hartley call? 3rd best keeper/batsman in the land. Well behind the top 2, but still, that is where he stands.

Nothing. I haven't seen much of him so I can't analytical.

But I have seen Ronchi bat, and that he can. Ronchi can play, as much as I like stirring up my WA friend's on here the kid's got game and although I haven't seen him bat as yet I'd probably say comparisons to the current Indian Wicket-Keeper batsman Dhoni wouldn't be out of place.

Admittedly I see Johnson playing NO part in the ashes contest,

Nor should he.

but in the context of my argument, I believe he fits into the bigger picture.

Firstly. There's no argument that Johnson should be anywhere near international cricket either at the moment or in the near future.

Secondly, I don't see how he fits into the bigger picture. All he is at the moment is an injury prone 24/25 year old, who's erratic, doesn't have an even nearly impressive record, and shouldn't even be playing for his state side.

He's not fit to scrub the whites of guys like Kasprowicz, Bichel and even Noffke.

If you are happy to judge him on one innings, then lets jump on all those failures made by debutants and others.

I've seen him bowl more than that, so this isn't a 'one innings' judgement. He might have above average pace, BUT NOTHING ELSE. And it's also worth noting most other debutants have at the very least half impressive first class records to there name.

He is young, quick and a lefty,

Wow!

Nathan Bracken must be the world's best bowler and Doug Bollinger must be the greatest internationally uncapped cricketer in the history of the game.

And the quick part means little.

Mitchell Johnson has a strong resemblance to Alan Mullaly.

Where's he at now?

he has the necessary tools to be something down the track,

How far down the track?

He's 24 or 25. About the same age as Nathan Bracken. He's not going to wake up in the morning as Wasim Akram you know.

and it is obvious to most,

If bias Queenslanders means most, then I'm in agreeance.

but without nurturing, he won't progress and it is possible we may miss out on a handy left-arm quick.

I don't get this comment. So he needs to play international cricket to get nurtured?

He's not 20 years old, you can't expect Queensland to nurture a 24 year old who's nothing but a detriment to there side. And an embarassment to a state who reguarly produce world class quick bowlers.

It is ok the be near-sighted whilst McGrath and Lee spearhead the way,

McGrath isn't much anymore. Still a very good bowler though.

Lee still has a LONG way to go.

and Tait is the next big thing,

As far as fast bowling goes in this country he is. There's no respectable argument otherwise.

but remember the Poms handled Tait pretty well in his debut test,

He ripped through there top order in his first innings on a batsmans paradise and didn't get a bowl to the tail. Any young quick making there debut away from home in 100% favourable batting conditions can't be expected to turn into Curtley Ambrose in there debut test. The second innings he hardly got a bowl.

A trend **************** Ponting would continue in his second test, in sad Ponting's unsuccessful pursuit of the Ashes.

and if we use your logic of judging a player on their debut, then Tait was the biggest waste of hot air on the whole tour.

Played two tests. Hardly got a bowl in the last innings of his first test and both innings of his second. Didn't get a bowl to the tail and played on two batsman's paradises. Also worth noting he averaged the same with the ball as Australia's second 'hero' on the tour Brett Lee.

But it is alarmingly obvious the boy can bowl, fast! So let him do it.

So can Trent Kelly.

Your point?

He can do it where he should. And that's not Australia and at the moment not Queensland either.

After writing that and seeing your next sentence I realised you were talking about Tait. The above is about Johnson. However if you think all Tait has is pace then that'd be the most misinformed opinion I've read on here for a while. And that's saying something.

You don't own/dominate/make your own personal playground both forms of the state domestic competition for two seasons at the age 20/21 if you only have pace. Records broken along the way, 8/fer's taken and batsman made to look ordinary. Some returning to domestic cricket Australian champion batsman included. Infact more than some.

Same for Johnson,

Please don't compare the two. A quick search on CricInfo players stat pages should help you as to why.

they are tall and quick.

Alan Mullaly was tall and from memory pretty quick, he must have 500 test wickets by now surely?

Tait has everything together at this stage,

Interesting that, because Tait is 2 or 3 years younger. Has absolutely dominated/owned/made his own personal playground both forms of the domestic game for two seasons. Johnson's been familiarising himself with his regular buddy Jack.S in that time.

but this is Johnson's first uninterrupted season.

Should we give him a medal?

And I'd hate to see him bowl if he was injury interrupted. Would probably make Magoffin look like Curtley Ambrose. Wait a second! He already does that.

Johnson is still young,

So am I.

But I'm not tall.

Damn!

and I believe he can make it in the future

The "I believe Johnson can make it" club would be pretty exclusive/solitary wouldn't it?

I suggest hybernation in the summer.

with a bit of luck

Alan Pardew called and he told me Johnson would need double doses of the Famous West Ham Luck to get anywhere near making it.

Thanks Pards!

and the right tutoring.

If you could relate his cricketing to a cartoon figure's intelligence using how much tutoring is required your namesake springs immeadiately to mind.

He is well down the list at the moment,

If all was right, there'd be more names ahead of him in the Aussie fast bowlers list than there are on Santa's list.

but there are plenty of pieces of dead wood ahead of him at the moment (Kaspa, Dizzy, Bic, Clark etc)

All of them are miles better than him, especially the first three. And let me all 4 are very well performed in the domestic competition so far this year. Johnson isn't. Surely he'd be better than 'dead wood'?

and when that thins out in the future, he will be in the frame.

He'd wanna get the Halliwel sisters, Sabrina and Samantha from Bewitched to cast some sort of spell on another bowler for him to swap powers with. Otherwise Mitchell Johnson will never be anything close to a decent international bowler.

I never once said that he will go out and win us the ashes next year, I merely said he is one of the guys that will need to be developed if we are to win it.

Still wrong.

Why not play Trent Kelly, Ben Hilfanhaus, and that Victorian dude that got a couple of SA top order wickets in the ING cup match a while back?

Potential is nothing without performance. I see neither in Johnson. Performance isn't self definable and he definitely doesn't have anything close to that to his name.

Fact is unless he produces a Tait like performance in the second half of the season, he shouldn't be in a preliminary squad of 50 for the Ashes next year.

McGrath is on his way out,

Agree. But every now and then he'll produce a decent performance which will be enough to keep his place, when coupled with his career record.

Lee and Tait will be the front-line bowlers,

Agree.

Australia's best 4 fast bowlers at the moment IMO (and note I'm not very often wrong)

1. Lee
2. Tait
3. Dorey
4. Kasprowicz/McGrath

after that, there is a need to develop the younger guys sooner rather than later.

You don't develop someone for the sake of it.

It's hard to develop someone who's shown himself to at this stage struggle at domestic level.

In 2009 in England, there will be no McGrath, Lee will be the spearhead with Tait and the Poms won't produce pitches that allow us spin them out, so obviously it is important that we have young quicks being developed. Johnson is amongst that group.

How big is this group?

I would hope bigger than the population of China.

Admittedly I was being hopeful in even remotely suggesting he could be anywhere near the team in 12 months,

Thankyou. It this was the first sentence it would've saved the 1000 word essay I wrote above. Now that I've written it I'll leave it.

He'd need to do alot in the near future (second half of the season) to deserve even remote consideration. If he could pull out some Tait like consistency, dominance and performance then I'll take notice. Until then he's a 24/25 year old injury plauged, lucky to be playing state cricket fast bowler.

but surely even you AC can realistically realise that he is a chance to get there eventually,

Of course he can.

A while should be exactly that though.

Not playing in the current XI at the moment Tait and Dorey (in that order) are miles ahead of anyone else.

and is one of the group of bowlers that need to be given opportunities to develop.

For Queensland providing his form holds it and is respectable then yes.

County cricket, 'A' team tours of the Sub-continent etc etc. This needs to be put in place over the long term.

Agree to a certain extent. However if his form doesn't pick up to some degree then he shouldn't be considered for the 'A' team, irrespective of his potential. It sends out the wrong message to other players and indeed him.

Next year McGrath, Lee and Tait will play, simple. Warne will be the spinner and it is highly likely that Watson will be playing too.

Agree but disagree slightly on Watson. I think it's likely he will be playing, much like Tait injuries withstanding. Watson can bat, he's just an average bowler with no assets or even remote effectiveness at test-level. However at the moment I wouldn't consider him in the six best batsman in the country so he shouldn't play but I wouldn't be totally opposed to it.

But McGrath is susceptible to injury as he ages,

True. And he's obviously not getting any better and IMO has been on the decline for at least a year.

and if Lee or Tait go down, Rofe and Dorey are next men up.

True again.

Unfortunately they seem obsessed for some unknown reason with the Bracken/Clark combo. I can understand Clark to some extent but Bracken's just rubbish.

In that situation, suddenly the bowler that gets wickets between now and November next year is one injury or form lapse from playing on Boxing Day next year. There is a queue of players there, many of whom have peaked and won't have as much time and effort put into them as Johnson and other young quicks.

Fair enough.

If Johnson's form was decent then they'd probably consider him in that situation. Probably might be understating it as well. However it is worth noting again the Bracken/Clark obsession, which isn't to be underestimated.

I only ever said he needs to be looked at, never said he has to be picked.

Looked at/monitored I agree with. Consideration with selected should come with consistency of high performance.