O'Niell: Move over AFL and NRL - What about a sensible approach?

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Hicham

Club Legend
Sep 15, 2003
1,294
2
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Watching the news tonight I saw a piece on John O'Niell's ambitions post World Cup.

I wont quote what I heard, but it was something along the lines of "Fundamentaly, we want to become the biggest sporting code in Australia".

The reporter then went on to say how O'Niell had ambitions of pushing aside the AFL and NRL during winter and Union becoming this counrty's No. 1 Football Code - and gaining support equal to or greater than cricket. Again, dont quote me, but it was interesting to hear.

Most of you know Im a Leaguie and a Bronco, but i'll endevour to put my differences with Rugby Union aside and make a serious comment if I can.

Apparently, the ARU will make a $45 million profit from the WC. To me, if O'Niell is serious about what he said then I think the profit will be wasted. There is no way in the foreseeable future that Rugby Union, I presume in a domestic competition form, will challenge Rugby League for support in it's strongholds, and everyone will admit that the AFL could probably just brush such an issue off its shoulder. As for cricket, well I dont think we have any need to talk about that - enough said.

If I put a Union hat on for a moment, and had such lofty ambitions, I would put in sensible plans - focusing strictly on gradual, sustainable development. Not just jump straight into things and expect to dominate. I wouldnt look at a 5-10 year plan, but a 30, 40, 50 year plan.

I have no doubt that Australia could support a sustainable national Union comp, however, questions I would ask would be:

* I liken Union in Australia to our national Cricket team - support for the national team is great, but below that it becomes more and more woeful as we go down. Are the ARU getting too excited about the WC. Union fans in general in AUS dont have a club to support - and alot of people arent familiar with the rules and just support the Wallabies as a national team. Thats a big issue if your looking to grow. There are no clubs to support. There is club rugby, a low standard compeition, thats it. Super 12 doesnt run for long enough and there are only 3 teams in Oz. Was it just the event (WC) that generated support? Table tennis was sold out at the Olympics, but its hardly a massive sport in Oz is it? How will the ARU address this problem? Instead of starting support from the bottom up, Union in Oz has started from the top (national side) and is attempting to work its way back down - is the a killer for Union in this counrty?

* The ARU must, in my opinion, work off a base ie. The 3 S12 teams, or Sydney Club Rugby. Now from what I hear Super 12 is in danger of becoming extinct becuase of overseas teams showing little interest (can someone clarify that, I only heard it from a non-reliable source) and club Rugby is no-good. Its purely at the same standards as a local grade comp in any code of footy. How can these existing comps be utilised to make a National comp - or should I say, to start and then grow into a national comp.

* Depth. I would be concerned about the amount of depth. The AFL and NRL have no problems with depth - obviously due to the time they have existed as big comps and have grown and generated their great amounts support and participation. Does the ARU start with a National comp straight away or slowly build one, originating in Sydney and Brisbane, and put in place those long term plans.

There would be plenty of other issues also.

What are peoples thoughts of O'Niell's comments, and also about what is the right way for Rugby Union to use whatever it generates from the WC and build a better future for itself in Australia?

Minty is the Union expert in here, interested in his thoughts.

Cheers,

Hicham.
 
Keep dreaming Johnny!!! Once the WC is over and the seasons kick off for the NRL and AFL next year, no one will remember the WC...
Club Rugby in Sydney gets what family and friends if lucky too there games!
 

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a good indication will be how the super12 goes next year, whether it can build on the success of the world cup and generate increased attendances and tv ratings.

at the moment there's no doubt that the wallabies are this nations no:1 sports team, they seem to have captured the imaginations of millions of sports fans who previously had no liking for union.

i imagine that john o'neil wants to expand super12 into perth and melboune, maybe even adelaide and then have a truely national comp, and he has the money to do it. the aru is rich beyond the avarice of man!!!
 
The big question is how much can the WC profits last...

The ARU can't hold a WC every year.

And the biggest thing this WC has shown, especially as a non-Wallaby level is that big RU games are still 'an event'.

Along the lines of the Melbourne Cup.

Horse Racing is not the most followed sport in Austaralia, but every Australian follows horse racings during thr Melbounre Cup.

An event in its purest form.

Ala the RUWC.

RU is not something to be spectated, witnessed by the 1/4 final+ TV ratings, or the 1/4 final crowd figures....

Once the public had a idea what they where buying, the RUWC games became as popular as a national basketball league game....

Now the NBL has 12 teams county wide on a 750k per team salary cap.

If that is RU's future... I don't quite think the NRL will be running scared.
 
Neither the AFL or NRL would be runnig scared at O'Niels comments.
I think he is getting carried away with the moment.

As others have pointed out there is no worthwhile RU club competition anywhere in Australia and its also not something you can build over night on the back of an event.(Australian Football has had competitions since 1877- 125 years for instance)
The backbone of other major football codes around the globe- Soccer, RL, and AFL in Aussie is strong local club leagues and these provide the players and cash flow week in week out.
A one off $45 million profit is nothing compared to the massive TV monies generated by the other competing codes every year.

I doubt if RU has the skill money or clout to implement this gradiose dream.
 
I heard about NZ going out of the Super 12 and concentrating on teh NPC and making it the number 1 comp in that country.

This would sure stuff up Australian Rugby. Unless they keep a comp with SA and add 3 new aussie teams to keep the super 12s. (how many nz super 12 teams are there)
 
i've touched upon this subject in the main afl board but john o'neil doesn't need nz and sa, he could just have a super6 comp in australia with a team in each capital city. he could easily pick up quality league players and add some afl players to establish 3 new super6 teams.
 
John O'Neill is in a dream world on this one Hicham, but I don't think he seriously thinks it'll become number 1 - but it's better to dream big than dream conservatively, it's better to aim for 10 and get 7 than to aim for 6 and get 6.

It won't happen, at least not in the forseeable future (while he's around). A lot of what you got a bit annoyed at though is not what he said, but what the reporter just added to the argument to make it more appealing to the audience. He's always said that he aims for RU to be no.2 in the AFL states. He has though made what I think are mostly empty threats to RL in NSW and QLD though by saying he wants to be no.1 in these states (esp for NSW).

As a RU fan though I'd rather him be an ambitious, confronting type CEO. I think RL has lacked that a bit in its leaders over recent times. Super League had the balls but it didn't have the heart. League needs both. I think at the moment David Gallop has the heart but only has one of the other asset. On the other hand O'Neill has the full set, but only half a heart.
 
Currently it would be the number 2 footbal code in Australia behind AFL (maybe soccer) in terms of followers. While RL fans might disagree, what I argue is that besides the actual supporters of RL like the sport, few others bother, that is it is either your favourite or your least favourite. Whereas, as this WC has shown, rugby is a sport that many supporters of other codes has shown, it is many peoples second or third favourites.

The difficulty for the ARU is to turn this acceptance of the sport into crowd figures and ratings. Imagine how good Australia would be if Victoria, South Australia and WA all had strong junior ranks. Similarly to soccer, which has millions of followers in Australia, work needs to be done to increase it locally.
 
People attending Super 12, Wallabies and WC matches would be hard pressed naming ten Club sides in the Sydney and Brisbane comps combined. I doubt that there would be many victorians who'd ahve trouble naming ten NRL sides or many New South Welshmen who'd have trouble naming 10 AFL sides ;) . Thus, Rugby Union remains number 3, simply because 4 Australian Sides get recognition and nobody has a clue who the F*Ck Gordon or Sunnyside are.

Super 6 would be commercial suicide. The next SANZAR TV rights agreement will be a pittance compared to the current one, and for a country that doesn't tune into Super 12 matches, a deal without the benefit of South Africa and New Zealand would be even smaller. Add to that the fact that These Super 6 clubs would be running at a debt, the ARU would have to use money from the TV rights deals and Wallabies fortunes earmarked for player aquisition and marketting to prop up these new 'clubs' for a doezen years at best, and The ARU would lose all clout. Much better that the ARU remain Suckling at the Teet of it's wet nurses.
 

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Union competing with Soccer...In Australia???
Jeez would've thought Union was much more popular than Soccer in Oz, especially now since the WC. I would've thought it would be challenging the NRL in Sydney cos at the moment Sydney have shown they will accept a new code of Football(80000+ at 2 Sydney games)
 
OK, ok, I hate it when people make rash predictions on net forums, but.........



1. He's just ****ed off AFL followers - they'll quite happily follow union as well, as long as it isn't seen as a direct competitor. Once he starts picking fights, they turn very, very hostile.

2. He's smokin' if he thinks union will overtake soccer as no 2 code of football in the four southerners.

And really, is union even likely to overtake soccer as second code in the northern states? I haven't got the figures in front of me, but I'm assuming soccer's playing numbers are light years ahead of union.... Confirmation on that?
 
I can't see anything wrong with O'Neils comments.

He states he wants RU to be no.1 in NSW/QLD and no.2 in the AFL states. Its a totally achieveable objective even though it is a couple decades off. You can't criticise someone because they have ambition or have a desire to see it happen.

I'm interested to see whats going to happen to the $45 million profit the ARU has made. No use investing $15m in development programs when we only got 3 professional sides, thats just a bad investment. Whats needed is a national competition and from there development programs will then make more sense.
 
Dunno about Number 1 in NSW/QLD but number 2 in the southern states is achieveable but there would have to be super 12 teams in these states which isn't going to happen. Living in Melbourne, if they picked up a super 12 team i can see Union maybe becoming the number 2 sport in a few years but until there's games down here regulary i cant see any change.
 

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O'Niell: Move over AFL and NRL - What about a sensible approach?

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