No Oppo Supporters OPPOSITION OBSERVATION XXXVI

[Hank Heavenly]

Always found it hard getting behind the A-League aside from punting on it. Suffers from the same problem as the NBL to an extent which is almost netball standard compared to an NBA game. There's that many hardcore soccer fans here that get up at 3am to watch the EPL but couldn't give a stuff about the A League. If the they haven't won over those types yet after almost 20 years in they never will

To be fair, Melbourne United do a pretty good job from an entertainment perspective for young families...
Heaps of free stuff, music, on court entertainment, free ice creams when leaving...
And we go as Wildcats supporters.

 

[kozi]

To be fair, Melbourne United do a pretty good job from an entertainment perspective for young families...
Heaps of free stuff, music, on court entertainment, free ice creams when leaving...
And we go as Wildcats supporters.

If all the people that follow EPL here also followed A League the thing would be thriving. Can't win all those types over with free ice cream at games, need to improve the skill level (which has happened slowly over the years but clearly not enough yet). Not only are they not attracting many new fans but you have existing ones hopping off which spells disaster

 

[Hank Heavenly]

If all the people that follow EPL here also followed A League the thing would be thriving. Can't win all those types over with free ice cream at games, need to improve the skill level (which has happened slowly over the years but clearly not enough yet). Not only are they not attracting many new fans but you have existing ones hopping off which spells disaster

I get that.... and don't disagree...

Funnily enough, whilst the individual skill of the NBL is WELL short of the NBA, it's a better game to watch sometimes (and I emphasise sometimes) as it's not just Iso's and Pick'n'rolls IMO.

The issue is part to do with age demographic as well. Old blokes with deep roots in the EPL and the skill level of best players in the world struggling to support tier 17 level football, vs, young families jumping on he bball bandwagon as kids start playing locally (both boys and girls).

 

[kozi]

I get that.... and don't disagree...

Funnily enough, whilst the individual skill of the NBL is WELL short of the NBA, it's a better game to watch sometimes (and I emphasise sometimes) as it's not just Iso's and Pick'n'rolls IMO.

The issue is part to do with age demographic as well. Old blokes with deep roots in the EPL and the skill level of best players in the world struggling to support tier 17 level football, vs, young families jumping on he bball bandwagon as kids start playing locally (both boys and girls).

Bball going strong at the junior level isn't it? Makes sense for them, young families are the ones the NBL should be going after strongly

 

[Calcium Man]

Always found it hard getting behind the A-League aside from punting on it. Suffers from the same problem as the NBL to an extent which is almost netball standard compared to an NBA game. There's that many hardcore soccer fans here that get up at 3am to watch the EPL but couldn't give a stuff about the A League. If the they haven't won over those types yet almost 20 years in they never will

I understand frustration with skill level. But i don’t buy that as a reason folk don’t attend, otherwise no league outside the EPL would survive.

The problem is and always has been the governing body/bodies. Every time the league got going, they shot themselves in the foot. Victory were almost comparable to Norf in late 2000s in terms of crowds (with more room for growth) but the FFA employed some sort of “anti-terrorist” police/security force and started spying on fans while cracking down on “active” fans. It killed the atmosphere and destroyed the trust between the league and its most loyal fans.

The decision making on expansion has been terrible. Gold Coast cos Clive Palmer paid and then got bored, Melbourne Heart was a terrible decision (sorry city fans), it had no real point of difference with Victory, and basically sold itself as the anti-victory, in a desperate bid to create a derby. They let North Queensland go under despite being one of the most community focused clubs with fantastic engagement. The constant Sydney focus of the entire league (and FFA with scheduling so many NT games in Sydney). The new expansions are useless, Canberra and Tassie should have been given a chance.

But this takes the cake in terms of bad choices, you’ve got momentum from the WC. And instead you effectively lock out 3/4s of your fans from the grand final, the one great advantage over AFL/NRL, thinking you’ll get 10,000s of people traveling to Sydney for the Grand Final? On what ****en planet do they think a comp with such a small fan base, people will travel in such numbers? It’s just terrible marketing to have your marquee game half empty (in a city that has constantly shown it can’t consistently sell out NT games), let alone 2k people you might have got for WUFV vs MCFC last year.

It’s an absolute disgrace and the entire league needs a clean out.

 

[Wooden Robot]

Because the clubs use the junior fees to pay their senior players and because the league in general provides close enough to zero support in terms of money for the juniors. Also soccer is being run in a hilariously incompetent way

The AFL does it miles, miles better

Just like most Aussie Rules clubs do these days ... milk the juniors to pay for the A-grade.

 

[Wooden Robot]

I understand frustration with skill level. But i don’t buy that as a reason folk don’t attend, otherwise no league outside the EPL would survive.

The problem is and always has been the governing body/bodies. Every time the league got going, they shot themselves in the foot. Victory were almost comparable to Norf in late 2000s in terms of crowds (with more room for growth) but the FFA employed some sort of “anti-terrorist” police/security force and started spying on fans while cracking down on “active” fans. It killed the atmosphere and destroyed the trust between the league and its most loyal fans.

The decision making on expansion has been terrible. Gold Coast cos Clive Palmer paid and then got bored, Melbourne Heart was a terrible decision (sorry city fans), it had no real point of difference with Victory, and basically sold itself as the anti-victory, in a desperate bid to create a derby. They let North Queensland go under despite being one of the most community focused clubs with fantastic engagement. The constant Sydney focus of the entire league (and FFA with scheduling so many NT games in Sydney). The new expansions are useless, Canberra and Tassie should have been given a chance.

But this takes the cake in terms of bad choices, you’ve got momentum from the WC. And instead you effectively lock out 3/4s of your fans from the grand final, the one great advantage over AFL/NRL, thinking you’ll get 10,000s of people traveling to Sydney for the Grand Final? On what *en planet do they think a comp with such a small fan base, people will travel in such numbers? It’s just terrible marketing to have your marquee game half empty (in a city that has constantly shown it can’t consistently sell out NT games), let alone 2k people you might have got for WUFV vs MCFC last year.

It’s an absolute disgrace and the entire league needs a clean out.

If they went back to having clubs called Macedonia, Alexandria, Hellas, Croatia etc. the crowds would double or triple overnight.

 

[Livonski]

Bball going strong at the junior level isn't it? Makes sense for them, young families are the ones the NBL should be going after strongly

Basketball is done and dusted in 45 minutes. Indoor, easy for kids to participate, no bad injuries etc.
then they get to 15 and drop off dramatically, especially the girls (in my experience).
Footy is a game for life. They can’t seem to get that commitment in other codes in Aust.

 

[kozi]

I understand frustration with skill level. But i don’t buy that as a reason folk don’t attend, otherwise no league outside the EPL would survive.

The problem is and always has been the governing body/bodies. Every time the league got going, they shot themselves in the foot. Victory were almost comparable to Norf in late 2000s in terms of crowds (with more room for growth) but the FFA employed some sort of “anti-terrorist” police/security force and started spying on fans while cracking down on “active” fans. It killed the atmosphere and destroyed the trust between the league and its most loyal fans.

The decision making on expansion has been terrible. Gold Coast cos Clive Palmer paid and then got bored, Melbourne Heart was a terrible decision (sorry city fans), it had no real point of difference with Victory, and basically sold itself as the anti-victory, in a desperate bid to create a derby. They let North Queensland go under despite being one of the most community focused clubs with fantastic engagement. The constant Sydney focus of the entire league (and FFA with scheduling so many NT games in Sydney). The new expansions are useless, Canberra and Tassie should have been given a chance.

But this takes the cake in terms of bad choices, you’ve got momentum from the WC. And instead you effectively lock out 3/4s of your fans from the grand final, the one great advantage over AFL/NRL, thinking you’ll get 10,000s of people traveling to Sydney for the Grand Final? On what *en planet do they think a comp with such a small fan base, people will travel in such numbers? It’s just terrible marketing to have your marquee game half empty (in a city that has constantly shown it can’t consistently sell out NT games), let alone 2k people you might have got for WUFV vs MCFC last year.

It’s an absolute disgrace and the entire league needs a clean out.

We're talking about different things here mainly. The on field standard is absolutely a barrier to winning over new fans that would rather just watch the EPL and other top level comps. Other stuff they're doing to screw the game like with the grand final affects that too but it's mainly just alienating the existing fans

Selling the grand final to Sydney right now is just the next howler from them. Like you said just shot all the free momentum they had from the WC and now all the fans are pissed off and focused on that. What a way to start the season

 

[kozi]

If they went back to having clubs called Macedonia, Alexandria, Hellas, Croatia etc. the crowds would double or triple overnight.

Laughable how much they underestimated what killing off the ethnic supporter bases would do. Those are the campaigners that were keeping the sport alive here

 

[Area51]

I don't find soccer particularly entertaining but I've been to a few A League games to see Phoenix because they wear yellow and black.

They do umpiring way better than AFL. There is no comparison. Cameras in the right places, video refs, refs that actually will review a score properly. Of course they will make mistakes but its seems they are way less involved in the game and less interrupting of the play. I don't think they change the rules anywhere near as much as the AFL do either to try to "increase scoring" and the low scoring doesn't seem to have much impact on its long term appeal.

AFL as a business may be better run but soccer is better run from a pure sporting perspective.

 

[Calcium Man]

We're talking about different things here mainly. The on field standard is absolutely a barrier to winning over new fans that would rather just watch the EPL and other top level comps. Other stuff they're doing to screw the game like with the grand final affects that too but it's mainly just alienating the existing fans

No I don’t believe we are, and again if skill level were important, no leagues outside the top ones would matter. You wouldn’t get stadiums full of Greek fans at basketball games or baseball games in Japan etc…

At its core sports clubs are about community, tribalism and attachment, you build these through traditions and shared experiences. Everyone on this board has an attachment to each other through the tigers no matter how good or shit the team is at any point.

The a-league alienated their most loyal fans, those are the people who drag along mates, bring their kids and families and create traditions that expand the supporter base. Those fans were also the “actives” who created the best atmospheres in Australian sports that were a significant point of difference with AFL and NRL. It was the grog squad on steroids. I was dragged to my first match in season 1, the standard was awful, we drew 0-0 with NZ but I was hooked because of the atmosphere and community. Got a membership 2 weeks later.

And the a-league killed it because they wanted an AFL product not what they had. It’s become so hard to love Australian soccer because the decision makers are terrible across the sport. The AFL administration maybe shocking also but they have 120 years of tradition to fall back on, plus they’ve never gone out of their way to alienate its most loyal fans[/QUOTE]

 

[kozi]

No I don’t believe we are, and again if skill level were important, no leagues outside the top ones would matter. You wouldn’t get stadiums full of Greek fans at basketball games or baseball games in Japan etc…

At its core sports clubs are about community, tribalism and attachment, you build these through traditions and shared experiences. Everyone on this board has an attachment to each other through the tigers no matter how good or s**t the team is at any point.

The a-league alienated their most loyal fans, those are the people who drag along mates, bring their kids and families and create traditions that expand the supporter base. Those fans were also the “actives” who created the best atmospheres in Australian sports that were a significant point of difference with AFL and NRL. It was the grog squad on steroids. I was dragged to my first match in season 1, the standard was awful, we drew 0-0 with NZ but I was hooked because of the atmosphere and community. Got a membership 2 weeks later.

And the a-league killed it because they wanted an AFL product not what they had. It’s become so hard to love Australian soccer because the decision makers are terrible across the sport. The AFL administration maybe shocking also but they have 120 years of tradition to fall back on, plus they’ve never gone out of their way to alienate its most loyal fans

Jeez what is the big argument over. People watch the better comps like the EPL over A League because it's more exciting due to the skill level. It's the same with the NBA v the NBL, that's just a walk up fact. Look at the AFLW and try tell us with a straight face that the skill level isn't the main reason a lot of people don't tune in.

That doesn't mean there's not still lots of fans going to the lesser comps. It just means they'd be bigger and win over a lot more of the casuals with a better spectacle.

We desperately need some footy soon if the big debates are starting to be over stuff like this

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

how did blooze miss finals they were 8-2

 

[rammbo]

how did blooze miss finals they were 8-2

Because they are shit .

 

[THE THIN MAN]

St Kilda is on the hunt for a new list manager to help spearhead the club’s resurgence after parting ways with talent boss James Gallagher.

The Saints confirmed on Tuesday Gallagher would depart the club as he looked to move home to South Australia for family reasons.

The club will embark on a process to find a replacement although it remains unclear whether former Carlton list boss and ex-St Kilda assistant coach Stephen Silvagni will be a target.

Silvagni was cut by the Blues over an alleged conflict of interest because his son Jack was on the club’s list and has since led the league website’s trade coverage in recent years.

St Kilda’s list strategy has failed to help the club rise up the ladder in recent years following moves to top-up on some mature-age recruits including high-priced midfielders Brad Hill and Daniel Hannebery.

Other pickups include Dan Butler, Paddy Ryder, Zak Jones, Dougal Howard, James Frawley, Dean Kent and Shaun McKernan.

James Gallagher has stepped down as St Kilda list manager. Picture: Getty Images

St Kilda’s recent football department review – which led to the sacking of coach Brett Ratten – recommended a change in list strategy after the club missed finals in 2022 despite an 8-3 start to the season.

Former North Melbourne coach David Noble helped lead the review, while former Kangaroos list boss Glenn Luff completed a list analysis for the Saints which found it lacked top-end talent.

The club’s new list boss will be on a mission to add more A-Graders, after missing out on Collingwood free agent Jordan De Goey, and recalibrate the salary cap.

The Saints are known to have a tighter-than-expected cap after the moves to add some mid-tier players on decent wages.

Gallagher, who played 38 games for Adelaide Crows, joined the Saints in 2018 after a career in banking.

Will the Saints look to Stephen Silvagni? Picture: Michael Klein

Chief executive Simon Lethlean thanked Gallagher for his contribution to the club over the past four years.

“James has contributed significantly to the improvement of our list and culture throughout his time at the Saints,” Lethlean said.

“He has an appetite for hard work and his care and passion for seeking to improve the quality of our list and the culture of our club was evident, no more so than when taking on more than just his primary duties throughout the Covid interrupted 2020 and 2021 years.

“We wish James, his wife Laura and children Jack, Alice and Olivia all the best for their move back home.”

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/st-kilda-searching-for-new-list-boss-after-james-gallagher-departs-the-club/news-story/154067ae831d538827d3d23896d85108

 

[Groupie_]

View attachment 1572621

St Kilda is on the hunt for a new list manager to help spearhead the club’s resurgence after parting ways with talent boss James Gallagher.

The Saints confirmed on Tuesday Gallagher would depart the club as he looked to move home to South Australia for family reasons.

The club will embark on a process to find a replacement although it remains unclear whether former Carlton list boss and ex-St Kilda assistant coach Stephen Silvagni will be a target.

Silvagni was cut by the Blues over an alleged conflict of interest because his son Jack was on the club’s list and has since led the league website’s trade coverage in recent years.

St Kilda’s list strategy has failed to help the club rise up the ladder in recent years following moves to top-up on some mature-age recruits including high-priced midfielders Brad Hill and Daniel Hannebery.

Other pickups include Dan Butler, Paddy Ryder, Zak Jones, Dougal Howard, James Frawley, Dean Kent and Shaun McKernan.

James Gallagher has stepped down as St Kilda list manager. Picture: Getty Images

St Kilda’s recent football department review – which led to the sacking of coach Brett Ratten – recommended a change in list strategy after the club missed finals in 2022 despite an 8-3 start to the season.

Former North Melbourne coach David Noble helped lead the review, while former Kangaroos list boss Glenn Luff completed a list analysis for the Saints which found it lacked top-end talent.

The club’s new list boss will be on a mission to add more A-Graders, after missing out on Collingwood free agent Jordan De Goey, and recalibrate the salary cap.

The Saints are known to have a tighter-than-expected cap after the moves to add some mid-tier players on decent wages.

Gallagher, who played 38 games for Adelaide Crows, joined the Saints in 2018 after a career in banking.

Will the Saints look to Stephen Silvagni? Picture: Michael Klein

Chief executive Simon Lethlean thanked Gallagher for his contribution to the club over the past four years.

“James has contributed significantly to the improvement of our list and culture throughout his time at the Saints,” Lethlean said.

“He has an appetite for hard work and his care and passion for seeking to improve the quality of our list and the culture of our club was evident, no more so than when taking on more than just his primary duties throughout the Covid interrupted 2020 and 2021 years.

“We wish James, his wife Laura and children Jack, Alice and Olivia all the best for their move back home.”

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/st-kilda-searching-for-new-list-boss-after-james-gallagher-departs-the-club/news-story/154067ae831d538827d3d23896d85108

poida is available

 

[kozi]

View attachment 1572621

St Kilda is on the hunt for a new list manager to help spearhead the club’s resurgence after parting ways with talent boss James Gallagher.

The Saints confirmed on Tuesday Gallagher would depart the club as he looked to move home to South Australia for family reasons.

The club will embark on a process to find a replacement although it remains unclear whether former Carlton list boss and ex-St Kilda assistant coach Stephen Silvagni will be a target.

Silvagni was cut by the Blues over an alleged conflict of interest because his son Jack was on the club’s list and has since led the league website’s trade coverage in recent years.

St Kilda’s list strategy has failed to help the club rise up the ladder in recent years following moves to top-up on some mature-age recruits including high-priced midfielders Brad Hill and Daniel Hannebery.

Other pickups include Dan Butler, Paddy Ryder, Zak Jones, Dougal Howard, James Frawley, Dean Kent and Shaun McKernan.

James Gallagher has stepped down as St Kilda list manager. Picture: Getty Images

St Kilda’s recent football department review – which led to the sacking of coach Brett Ratten – recommended a change in list strategy after the club missed finals in 2022 despite an 8-3 start to the season.

Former North Melbourne coach David Noble helped lead the review, while former Kangaroos list boss Glenn Luff completed a list analysis for the Saints which found it lacked top-end talent.

The club’s new list boss will be on a mission to add more A-Graders, after missing out on Collingwood free agent Jordan De Goey, and recalibrate the salary cap.

The Saints are known to have a tighter-than-expected cap after the moves to add some mid-tier players on decent wages.

Gallagher, who played 38 games for Adelaide Crows, joined the Saints in 2018 after a career in banking.

Will the Saints look to Stephen Silvagni? Picture: Michael Klein

Chief executive Simon Lethlean thanked Gallagher for his contribution to the club over the past four years.

“James has contributed significantly to the improvement of our list and culture throughout his time at the Saints,” Lethlean said.

“He has an appetite for hard work and his care and passion for seeking to improve the quality of our list and the culture of our club was evident, no more so than when taking on more than just his primary duties throughout the Covid interrupted 2020 and 2021 years.

“We wish James, his wife Laura and children Jack, Alice and Olivia all the best for their move back home.”

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/st-kilda-searching-for-new-list-boss-after-james-gallagher-departs-the-club/news-story/154067ae831d538827d3d23896d85108

Ross Lyon coaching a list built by Silvagni. What could go wrong

 

[THE THIN MAN]

Ross Lyon coaching a list built by Silvagni. What could go wrong

Former North Melbourne coach David Noble helped lead the review, while former Kangaroos list boss Glenn Luff completed a list analysis for the Saints which found it lacked top-end talent.

 

[THE THIN MAN]

 

[Groupie_]

Former North Melbourne coach David Noble helped lead the review, while former Kangaroos list boss Glenn Luff completed a list analysis for the Saints which found it lacked top-end talent.

glen luff formely of champion data

had us last for talent in our premiership year

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

View attachment 1572621

St Kilda is on the hunt for a new list manager to help spearhead the club’s resurgence after parting ways with talent boss James Gallagher.

The Saints confirmed on Tuesday Gallagher would depart the club as he looked to move home to South Australia for family reasons.

The club will embark on a process to find a replacement although it remains unclear whether former Carlton list boss and ex-St Kilda assistant coach Stephen Silvagni will be a target.

Silvagni was cut by the Blues over an alleged conflict of interest because his son Jack was on the club’s list and has since led the league website’s trade coverage in recent years.

St Kilda’s list strategy has failed to help the club rise up the ladder in recent years following moves to top-up on some mature-age recruits including high-priced midfielders Brad Hill and Daniel Hannebery.

Other pickups include Dan Butler, Paddy Ryder, Zak Jones, Dougal Howard, James Frawley, Dean Kent and Shaun McKernan.

James Gallagher has stepped down as St Kilda list manager. Picture: Getty Images

St Kilda’s recent football department review – which led to the sacking of coach Brett Ratten – recommended a change in list strategy after the club missed finals in 2022 despite an 8-3 start to the season.

Former North Melbourne coach David Noble helped lead the review, while former Kangaroos list boss Glenn Luff completed a list analysis for the Saints which found it lacked top-end talent.

The club’s new list boss will be on a mission to add more A-Graders, after missing out on Collingwood free agent Jordan De Goey, and recalibrate the salary cap.

The Saints are known to have a tighter-than-expected cap after the moves to add some mid-tier players on decent wages.

Gallagher, who played 38 games for Adelaide Crows, joined the Saints in 2018 after a career in banking.

Will the Saints look to Stephen Silvagni? Picture: Michael Klein

Chief executive Simon Lethlean thanked Gallagher for his contribution to the club over the past four years.

“James has contributed significantly to the improvement of our list and culture throughout his time at the Saints,” Lethlean said.

“He has an appetite for hard work and his care and passion for seeking to improve the quality of our list and the culture of our club was evident, no more so than when taking on more than just his primary duties throughout the Covid interrupted 2020 and 2021 years.

“We wish James, his wife Laura and children Jack, Alice and Olivia all the best for their move back home.”

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/st-kilda-searching-for-new-list-boss-after-james-gallagher-departs-the-club/news-story/154067ae831d538827d3d23896d85108

 

[Cdog71]

Why is it junior/amateur level soccer costs so much to participate? I've never understood that? It seems to me to be the type of sport that could run on the smell of an oily rag, like it does in developing nations.

They pay their coaches

 

[kozi]

Saints have set the bar so low there isn’t even a bar anymore

 

[Groupie_]