Oppo Camp Other Clubs News/General Discussion

[Hong Kong Pie]

The whole thing around Scott getting a side job with a Geelong sponsor is so damn shady it could be a picnic spot.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Ultimately it’s the stupidity of the list system… bigger rookie lists would mean the pies probably would’ve hung on to McMahon or an Eyre etc a bit longer

We’ve also been accused of hanging onto talls for too long.

Gault (6 games) and Kelly (5 games) were both given five years.

Surely we would be better off if our list management committee had identified after - let’s say 2 years - that Gault and Kelly were never going to make it at Collingwood?

In which case, maybe that’s exactly what they did with McMahon?

And yeah, maybe he does go on to become a 200 game player for Carlton but

(1) It’s super rare that happens, if ever, and …

(2) some people need a kick up the backside to achieve anything and …

(3) people respond differently in different environments.

Just because McMahon might achieve something elsewhere, that doesn’t mean that he would have been anything like that player at Collingwood.

 

[Chameleon75]

Can't imagine a delisted player would ever be anything but 100% honest about the reasons behind it...

he probably is being honest, it’s just that he’s taken the “it’s not you it’s me” line as the gospel truth when in fact saying they were going in a different direction was probably to let him down easy. No point in kicking someone when they’re down.

 

[sr36]

This is a bit disappointing. Fly told him they didnt have time to develop him.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/spatout-pie-turned-blues-convert-liam-mcmahon-hunts-a-second-chance-at-the-afl/news-story/f4f80bffd640bcea075ae8178b0d9593

Time is connected to list spots. End of 2022, we were close but we didn't have enough depth and McMahon wasn't physically ready to be depth - so we brought in 5 mature players that all played roles in us winning the flag, as well as being mandated to have 3 spots set aside for the draft. We had to get rid of some who weren't yet depth to have a squad deep enough to win the flag. Not disappointing at all - it was a great move that played a big role in us winning the flag. It's just a reality of the size of our lists.

 

[SchuPie]

Gault (6 games)

one of the most perplexing list retention decisions ever

 

[JLC]

This is a bit disappointing. Fly told him they didnt have time to develop him.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/spatout-pie-turned-blues-convert-liam-mcmahon-hunts-a-second-chance-at-the-afl/news-story/f4f80bffd640bcea075ae8178b0d9593

Fly is too busy winning flags.

 

[sideswipe]

Can't imagine a delisted player would ever be anything but 100% honest about the reasons behind it...

And the coach saying, "mate, we just didn't have the time to keep you on the list so you could reach your potential" is a much gentler exit than, "we think you aren't very good".

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Time is connected to list spots. End of 2022, we were close but we didn't have enough depth and McMahon wasn't physically ready to be depth - so we brought in 5 mature players that all played roles in us winning the flag, as well as being mandated to have 3 spots set aside for the draft. We had to get rid of some who weren't yet depth to have a squad deep enough to win the flag. Not disappointing at all - it was a great move that played a big role in us winning the flag. It's just a reality of the size of our lists.

Nonsense. McMahon would have kicked five on Harris Andrews in McStay’s absence.

 

[35Daicos]

McMahon looked woeful in his first year but was a mistake cutting him after two but persevering with Begg instead… but Begg was Cat B rookie

The club will take 3x third round picks to the draft and probably draft another 3 kids that get delisted after two years

Ultimately it’s the stupidity of the list system… bigger rookie lists would mean the pies probably would’ve hung on to McMahon or an Eyre etc a bit longer

Begg was very lucky to be kept on for so long, as he never really looked like making it. He wasn't a Cat B rookie however, just a mid-season (rookie) pick-up. No doubt he was kept on mainly as he could be a back-up ruckman, but they may have thought he'd eventually turn into a useful kp type as well. Somewhat ironically, Jackson Callow was taken one pick before Begg in the MSD. A lot of people on here were desperate for us to get him, and would have been ecstatic if we'd done so, believing him to be the answer to our KPF woes. He didn't last long at all!

Good luck to McMahon if he gets another crack at it. I won't be losing any sleep over it even if he does and makes a success of it. It's a cut-throat business, and you just can't keep too many players who are still developing on your list. It might even be that if we'd kept him on then Frampton wouldn't have been recruited, and the ending to the 2023 season could have been different!

 

[gouki88]

And the coach saying, "mate, we just didn't have the time to keep you on the list so you could reach your potential" is a much gentler exit than, "we think you aren't very good".

Growth mindset, even in cutting duds.

 

[JoinDate]

This is a bit disappointing. Fly told him they didnt have time to develop him.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/spatout-pie-turned-blues-convert-liam-mcmahon-hunts-a-second-chance-at-the-afl/news-story/f4f80bffd640bcea075ae8178b0d9593

Whinge, whinge, ****in' whinge.

Extremely disappointing if true. Instead we are burning mid season draft picks on guys like begg and josh eyre. Can't be picking up free agents forever either, actually need to develop some talls who play exclusively forward, not half assed swingmen and ruck/forwards

Burning mid season drafts picks?

 

[Mollythedolly]

Extremely disappointing if true. Instead we are burning mid season draft picks on guys like begg and josh eyre. Can't be picking up free agents forever either, actually need to develop some talls who play exclusively forward, not half assed swingmen and ruck/forwards

He’s had a couple of years development beyond his delisting by Collingwood and I’m still not convinced he’s afl ready. List sizes mean these decisions will become more the norm.

 

[3rdMan]

Time is connected to list spots. End of 2022, we were close but we didn't have enough depth and McMahon wasn't physically ready to be depth - so we brought in 5 mature players that all played roles in us winning the flag, as well as being mandated to have 3 spots set aside for the draft. We had to get rid of some who weren't yet depth to have a squad deep enough to win the flag. Not disappointing at all - it was a great move that played a big role in us winning the flag. It's just a reality of the size of our lists.

Agree. There's always a fine balance in the number of non-depth developing players vs proper AFL capable depth. The closer to a flag you are the more you need of the latter. You can't afford for the chance at a flag to be derailed because you had to play kids at a key stage due to injuries.

I do think it sucks. We should have bigger lists to allow for more developing players.

I also think that McRae is averse to playing younger players and waiting for them to develop. He's similar to Clarkson, Hardwick in that regard. Probably suggests it's the "correct" approach to winning.

 

[sr36]

Agree. There's always a fine balance in the number of non-depth developing players vs proper AFL capable depth. The closer to a flag you are the more you need of the latter. You can't afford for the chance at a flag to be derailed because you had to play kids at a key stage due to injuries.

I do think it sucks. We should have bigger lists to allow for more developing players.

I also think that McRae is averse to playing younger players and waiting for them to develop. He's similar to Clarkson, Hardwick in that regard. Probably suggests it's the "correct" approach to winning.

List sizes is my bugbear too. I just think it's really unfair on the recruits. They've got no time to develop. And not enough get added either. The cash is there, the cap just went up by $2 million. Why not have a quarter of that going to an extra 4 rookie wages, rather than solely inflating the wages of the best 22.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Agree. There's always a fine balance in the number of non-depth developing players vs proper AFL capable depth. The closer to a flag you are the more you need of the latter. You can't afford for the chance at a flag to be derailed because you had to play kids at a key stage due to injuries.

I do think it sucks. We should have bigger lists to allow for more developing players.

I also think that McRae is averse to playing younger players and waiting for them to develop. He's similar to Clarkson, Hardwick in that regard. Probably suggests it's the "correct" approach to winning.

I think the onus is on the kid to grab the spot when the opportunity arises. It’s not like we haven’t given plenty a go. Richard’s and Harrison 2 that got extended runs.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

 

[Piesinmyeyes]

How does GWS get a fine status.
Failed dismally at the final hurdle a few times now, with no ultimate prize.
Bit lenient me thinks.
Something not right at that club, I personally for one question the leaders, not that I give a tossbag.
Nice to see Blooz and Dons wallowing.

 

[76woodenspooners]

The key takeaway from that …

Felines > Avians > miscellaneous other mascots

 

[whiskeytown]

Begg was very lucky to be kept on for so long, as he never really looked like making it. He wasn't a Cat B rookie however, just a mid-season (rookie) pick-up. No doubt he was kept on mainly as he could be a back-up ruckman, but they may have thought he'd eventually turn into a useful kp type as well. Somewhat ironically, Jackson Callow was taken one pick before Begg in the MSD. A lot of people on here were desperate for us to get him, and would have been ecstatic if we'd done so, believing him to be the answer to our KPF woes. He didn't last long at all!

Good luck to McMahon if he gets another crack at it. I won't be losing any sleep over it even if he does and makes a success of it. It's a cut-throat business, and you just can't keep too many players who are still developing on your list. It might even be that if we'd kept him on then Frampton wouldn't have been recruited, and the ending to the 2023 season could have been different!

That’s right… he was MSD.

But at the end of the day they’ve backed the wrong horse in this time

4 years on the list for a 197cm Begg… playing him 90% as a ruck in a position he is too short for in the modern game

Versus 2 years for a dual position KPP in McMahon who has since kicked 40 goals in a VFL season.

Begg will never amount to that much in comparison at VFL level.

Whereas McMahon is now back on an AFL list

 

[gerryg400]

How does 5 spoons not get a lol?

 

[Pistol Night]

We were one quarter away from swapping spots with Geelong

 

[gouki88]

A bit silly to have WC rank equally with us & Sydney. They are less consistent

 

[Pistol Night]

A bit silly to have WC rank equally with us & Sydney. They are less consistent

Yeah Carlton should be LOL. At least Essendon played in a GF in 01

 

[gouki88]

Yeah Carlton should be LOL. At least Essendon played in a GF in 01

Carlton have been by far the worst team of the last 25 years. Not even that close

 

[Pistol Night]

Carlton have been by far the worst team of the last 25 years. Not even that close

Only people that might argue that are Andy Maher and Sam Edmund