Opinion Our Dysfunctional Forward Line

[4#Didak#4]

Our forward line seems to be getting dysfunctional. Our backline & midfield are still extremely strong, perhaps even stronger than it has been in the past. Our forward line however is quickly falling away & you have to wonder if we can score enough to win in finals. Our average scoring is way down on the past 2 years, yet we are still dominating in the middle. This is showing in our percentage & our inability to put games away when we are seemingly dominating.

Obviously injuries & retirements have hurt us up forward. Our lethal small forwards have evaporated. Krak was very important last year in retrospect. Didak not getting on the field takes out x-factor. Macaffer is the leading forward we are craving. Lets not kid ourselves that Leon up forward would have been very handy this year. Leigh Brown has meant Dawes is playing a foreign game to him. We have found Sinclair who has been great, but once again missing games thru injury.

Cloke is a guy you can build your forward line around, but he is not the guy that you rely on to kick big bags & win games off his own boot. His best work is occupying the defense and his grunt work - that brings the other forwards into the game, crumbers & other talls. At the moment we are using him as the go to man all the time. This is predictable. No one else is drawing the ball or becoming dangerous the way Krak, Macaffer, L Brown, Beams (when fwd), Davis, Didak have in the past.

Our scoring is coming from our midfield which has been great and goal kicking mids make us a dangerous team. However, we cannot rely on this all the time especially come finals time. We need a fully functioning forward line come September.

I think we need to try Taz forward ASAP and see if it works - give it a few weeks. He can be that other target up forward - a classical lead up forward who will separate defenders from Cloke. This would also take pressure off Dawes. We need Sinclair & Didak back deep in the forward 50 so we become dangerous at ground level again - playing the role Krak did.

When Pendles comes back we should have an extra midfielder who can rotate & play forward more - I would love this to be Swan. So good overhead and a natural goalkicker. This seems a luxury, but we have so many good mids we can redeploy Swan to make our forward line dynamic & dangerous again. Some would say Beams, but he now must stay in the middle IMO.

If we stay a one dimensional Cloke dominated forward line, I think we will struggle to go all the way. We need a multi dimensional, unpredicatable, flexible forward line so we can kcik winning scores.

 

[carnthepies19]

I think it is to be expected really, considering the youth in our forward line - Fasolo, Elliott, Sinclair, Paine and the inexperience in the forward line from Goldsack. We really need Dawes to step up while playing forward. If he was going better, converting his set shots (same goes to Cloke) then there would be a lot more points on the board.

Also last year and in 2010, our midfield were also known for scoring well, with there being many contributors from there. This year, however, through injuries most likely, the core midfield - Swan, Pendles, Thomas (Ball) has increased and the liked of Sidebottom and Beams are required more in the midfield, rather than at half forward.

Without the experience it puts more pressure on the younger guys. Who can't really be expected to lift the team as none of them were exactly top 5 picks were they.

To add to what was said about the backline being better than previous years, I tend to disagree. We are letting teams get close to us, when we could easily have put them away (such as Richmond) we don't have a quick small/ medium defender and at times it shows. Harry isn't capable of controlling Betts/Rioli's of the league. Perhaps this is what Williams was brought in for? However he didn't line up on Betts IIRC.

This is all to be expected though, there was no way in hell of us playing better than precious years when important cogs of our team have had season ending injuries, or close to. The likes of Johnson, Ball, Krakouer, Keeffe really help steady our team whilst playing, especially the first 3. We can cover for Keeffe.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

It only looks dysfunctional because Cloke is missing goals and is being beaten more often, and Dawes is all but doing nothing.

You get those 2 back in form and suddenly our forward line looks amazing again.

 

[mattys123]

It only looks dysfunctional because Cloke is missing goals and is being beaten more often, and Dawes is all but doing nothing.

You get those 2 back in form and suddenly our forward line looks amazing again.

But as long as Dawes plays in his current role as part time ruck, part time forward he won't find that form, so what is a solution to that problem then?

Is Tarrant the solution, and then in the future Paine (or Witts or Ceglar)? Or is there another road we have to go down to get our forward line working better.

On Saturday Night it's almost guaranteed we will have more inside 50's than the Cats do, their clearance and contested possession ranking is so low that even with Bartel we still would have dominated the midfield, but the only way we can lose on Saturday Night is if the forward line is beaten convincingly by Geelong's strong defense and they rebound it out too easily.

We need a third tall forward option, due to both form and due to Dawes playing as the second ruck, as at some points of the game he simply isn't going to be up forward as he covers for Jolly/Wood in the ruck.

Surely Tarrant plays forward this week, doesn't he?

 

[TradeDraft]

But as long as Dawes plays in his current role as part time ruck, part time forward he won't find that form, so what is a solution to that problem then?

Is Tarrant the solution, and then in the future Paine (or Witts or Ceglar)? Or is there another road we have to go down to get our forward line working better.

On Saturday Night it's almost guaranteed we will have more inside 50's than the Cats do, their clearance and contested possession ranking is so low that even with Bartel we still would have dominated the midfield, but the only way we can lose on Saturday Night is if the forward line is beaten convincingly by Geelong's strong defense and they rebound it out too easily.

We need a third tall forward option, due to both form and due to Dawes playing as the second ruck, as at some points of the game he simply isn't going to be up forward as he covers for Jolly/Wood in the ruck.

Surely Tarrant plays forward this week, doesn't he?

Then we need to Convert Better on Saturday Night and don't waste our Chances like Friday Night

Tarrant Playing Forward is Not a Guarantee

 

[4#Didak#4]

When you look at the stats we are a little bit down in every area compared to last year. We haven't really improved anywhere. Last year though was an amazing year that probably won't be repeated. So its expected we will be down a bit.

The main thing that stands out and what we are getting a feel for is that we are not kicking big scores, games are closer etc. The defence is averaging 10 more points against & the forwards are kicking 20 points less on average. So compared to last year we are 5 goals down on the scoreboard.

Our actual conversion rate isn't heaps down on last year, but our inside 50s are & therfore opportunities to score are down. So if our opportunities are less up forward we need to convert better to compete. Last year we got away with some poor conversion, this year it hurts more. The inside 50s will be down because the press generated a lot more last year, so it would be nice to get more I50s, but with the breakdown of the press we won't match last year.

An area we need to pick up is marks inside 50, this is down heaps. If you mark inside 50 its easier to score, at the moment it feels like hard work to score part of this is that we are not marking the ball inside 50 that much (except Clokey who misses!). This is where we need another legitimate marking target outside Cloke. Hopefully Taz could be that guy becasue we have to try something to increase our ease of scoring and conversion.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Then we need to Convert Better on Saturday Night and don't waste our Chances like Friday Night

This too. That first quarter, like the Hawthorn game, had we kicked straight, it could have been a completely different ball game.

1.8 is ridiculous. You make that 6.3 and all of a sudden Carlton goes back into their shell a bit.

 

[TradeDraft]

This too. That first quarter, like the Hawthorn game, had we kicked straight, it could have been a completely different ball game.

1.8 is ridiculous. You make that 6.3 and all of a sudden Carlton goes back into their shell a bit.

Scoreboard Pressure is the Best Thing and we did not do it vs Carlton

 

[jonbe54]

Ed and TD there were a few rushed behinds in that 1.8, our biggest scoring problem in my book has been lingering for years. A tendency, especially under pressure to bomb the ball in long and expect Cloke to save the day. I lost count of the bombs that landed 5 to 10m out only to be fisted or rushed through or out to the pocket.

 

[stavmasto]

We need to get it in fast and over the Geelong defenders heads. Geelong’s defence is good at reading the play. We need to be unpredictable and go to players such as goldsack and fasolo. If we can try and isolate them one on one then we will have a dangerous forward line. The geelong defenders struggle with medium to small size forwards. I would also throw in Sidebottom and Swan in the forward pocket. Kick it to them once in a while in the pocket. It enables the forward line to have different avenues to goal. Need to put scoreboard pressure from the 1st quarter.

 

[jaxter600]

I have been somewhat dissatisfied with our forward line for the past year and a half. Could be wrong but am not convinced that Lappin is the right guy for this task. Structurally we don't seem as cohesive as we were when Bucks had the gig. Given that the injury issues we have had during this time have definitely had an impact but don't see the resonably cohesive integration we have seen in the other areas of the team post injury. Of course I await the opinion of other more seasoned posters.

 

[PieNSauce]

Oddly I thought our forward line was fairly dysfunctional for the last 2 years. One of the things that certainly appears to have changed is our ability to rebound of half back this year. From what I've seen, it seems that a number of sides have put a great deal of energy into shutting down our running backs and that's hurting our ability to get the ball in quickly and cleanly. This also goes some way to explaining the reduced output of O'Brien and Maxwell when we play those sides. It's just a theory but it would be interesting to see the associated stats.

 

[HFF]

Tarrant has to go forward for the remainder of the season.

Adds another player the opposition needs to worry about and he is proven quality in attack.

When Dawes goes into the ruck we are bIt short in attack with only Cloke as the star power.

Tarrant is more than capable of playing second fiddle or even out of the square with his burst speed and straight line leading. He is also a far better option than Paine.

 

[Breakthelines]

I think we miss Krakouer more than anything!
His footy smarts, crumbing and positioning are elite!
He would be handy right now, because he would be cleaning up with Dawes dropping all those marks!

 

[the mighty T]

This may be the most simple observation of the year, but i think one of the reasons why were so dysfunctional going forward is the type of i50 entries that we have. Bombing the ball in, consistently.

Has anyone else noticed that when our players lead up and we honour the lead (eg Daisy vs Freo, Sinclair vs most teams) we get the more simple shots on goal? Pav and Betts got most of their goals off the hard lead, so why arent our forwards doing the same?

I also wouldnt mind seeing Cloke play closer to goal or out of the goalsquare. He could be that spearhead with his workrate if someone could teach him to double lead as well as having those great contested mark skills

 

[lenny20]

I have been somewhat dissatisfied with our forward line for the past year and a half. Could be wrong but am not convinced that Lappin is the right guy for this task. Structurally we don't seem as cohesive as we were when Bucks had the gig. Given that the injury issues we have had during this time have definitely had an impact but don't see the resonably cohesive integration we have seen in the other areas of the team post injury. Of course I await the opinion of other more seasoned posters.

I'm not sold on Lappin at all. The forward line hasn't worked properly against a good team since Bucks left it behind after 2010. And Bucks managed to get it going with a non-AA Cloke, a much more inexperienced Dawes, bit players like MaCaffer and Brown filling key roles, and teenagers like Blair and Sidebottom.

Structurally it just seems to be breaking down, and has been against good teams for a while now. I'd like to see someone other than Matty Lappin given a shot at making it work, he's fast becoming the next John Barker of forward coaches.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

Hang on, isn't Bucks head coach, I mean THE coach?

If he had it working so well then maybe there are other reasons it doesn't work now.

I'm not sure blaming Lappin (all though he is Carlscum refuse) is right.

Doesn't the coach disseminate his game plans to the assistants?

 

[Pera]

Part of the problem is we sometimes move the ball far too slow and we very rarely hit up a lead inside the forward 50. It's like whenever we are within 90m of goal, it's the the old 'bomb it long to Cloke' and hope our crumbers can snag one. It's also very rare we have a one on one contest on the end of these long bombs, as we are quite content with letting the opposition have one spare behind the play.

I look at Fas as a prime example. The guy has AMAZING hands for a guy his size, Elliott also. Yet, I can't remember the last time these two took a mark inside 50 on the lead. They have to work hard on the ground as they know it may be their only chance to get a sniff of the big sticks.

I often wonder how good we could be if we had any sort of system when moving the ball inside 50.

 

[Kirby]

Love the posts of Pie'n'Sauce and Pera.

Hit the nail on the head with our 2 biggest issues this year which are that we are struggling to run the ball quickly out of defence off the half back line and we are also failing to deliver the ball inside 50 to leading targets, instead just bombing it to Cloke.

It would be interesting to see how we would play without Cloke, say if he missed a couple with injury or suspension. It would completely alter our style and it could well be for the better.

I think our forward line has looked very dangerous a couple of times this year when Swan and Daisy have played deep, being mobile leading targets.

 

[cfx_1]

I think another problem which some people are overlooking here is our defensive set-up, which adversely effects our attacking setup. We set-up with a loose in defence, or at least try to have it that way. When we do, we also usually sucumb to an opposition loose in defence.

This loose man in defence's role is to cover the space in the fwd 50 and chop off the attack. Therefore its very hard to lead to space when there is none. Conversely, opposition players have plenty of space because alot of games we play in our fwd 50 and then the rebound hurts us and we haven't been able to cope with that this year.

How Carlton found space in the fwd 50 by chipping the ball around is dragging players away from the space and making a hard lead. It is a smart, and ballsy way to play as you have to be precise with the kicking. It can backfire terribly but they had the confidence and skill to pull it off and when it didn't, we didn't have anyone forward of the ball to take advantage of the counter attack. I would suggest a lot of teams would struggle playing that style as they don't have quality small fwds like betts and garlett.. (even though garlett scrubbed alot of his kicks he was in the right position a hell of a lot) Yarran's deliver inside 50 in the second half was superb and i don't think i have ever seen our half backs (Shaw, O'Brien and Maxwell) spot up a player on the lead and stab the ball perfectly to a leading target.. They almost ALWAYS bomb the ball in or have a shot at goal from outside 50.

And in their defence, it usually works. They have that capability, and we have the best contested mark in the league inside the 50. But whether its team direction to do that, or they just can't read the play or make the pass I have no idea.

 

[SuperSub17]

We kicked 1.5 up to qtr time on Friday, three of which were rushed. Imo the biggest miss was Cloke's one in the third when we would have got in front.

Also why was Sinclair the sub? Surprised me.

 

[migz]

I think it has to do with the amount of players we have around the ball. Lately weve been playing a very contested style game that almost reminds of the saints of 09 although we are no where near as boring..

We seem to always have players around the contests and stuck at the wing. Not much run and spread anymore... heaps of times we looked to go forward and nobody is ahead of the ball.. or we have no half back run cause everyone is stuck around the contest in defence... nobody to kick it to up field..

Cloke and Dawes coming up the wing for that reason and when they do clunk a mark it is again in a non dangerous spot far from goal or nobody is ahead of the ball.

I think it also explains a bit why teams try the third man up against us to try and rush it in to our defence to expose them one on one. Carlton killed us last week by positioning two men behind each stoppage. Direct extraction to those players and bang they killed us on the spread..

I'm not saying we should become front runners but I reckon maybe we don't need sooo many players around each contest because I think its having an effect on our attack but also our half back rebounding/counter attacking...

Watch some 2010 footage and you can clearly see how many times we used to absolutely burn teams on the counter..

 

[SwanBet]

not one to usually bag our coaching staff.... but ever since matty lappin took over as Forward coach in 2011 our forward line has struggled. This might be down to personnel but in 2010 our forward line was unstoppable.
Dawes is a massive key, I think his form will determine whether or not we can win the premiership, he really needs to at the very least be kicking 1-2 every game. His form is affecting Cloke who now is getting tripple teamed as teams are no longer worried about Dawes.
Another issue with the forward line is the inexperience. Fasolo, Sinclair and Elliott are now integral parts of the forward line, and they would probably have about 30 games experience between them,

 

[Soul_Pie]

First of all we miss Kraks making something out of nothing, if we could somehow get him back before the year's out it would be amazing. He was great in the grand final until the ball stopped coming anywhere near him.

Second of all we miss Didak's skills in and around the 50. His vision and ability to hit a target in a clustered area is second to none, brilliant skills. He also has great finishing skills around goal which is what we need.

More than anything though we need Dawes to step up big time, not just for his own sake but for the sake of those crumbing forwards around him who rely on him to make a contest and present a target.

 

[Torpy]

I think we're down by ~12 points per game compared to last year... and I hate to single anyone out but Dawes would be a major factor in that. If only he could chip in with his ~2 goals per game then our forward line looks so much better all of a sudden.